A must read article: An Open Letter To U2: What Happened To Your Relevance?

[The_acrobat]

Any R.E.M. “great run” that doesn’t include Up can get stuffed, Bill Berry or no Bill Berry.

I actually like all 5 of REM's post Bill Berry records, even the much loathed Around the Sun. But to me it almost feels like a different band. They really took a different approach after BB left. I really wish they could've kept going, I miss them so much. Saw them twice, in 03 and 04, and they were 2 of the best concerts I've ever seen.

You've convinced me to give Out of Time another shot. Doing that now.

 

[BVS]

I'm a huge R.E.M. fan as well. Unfortunately as the years go by I find myself listening to them less, because it's all in the past now. I'll rectify that tonight.

They pretty much had a perfect run from 1982-1996, the Bill Berry years. Green does have Stand, but it's still a decent record. But IMO, Out of Time is a steaming pile of shit! Other than LMR and Country Feedback, I find very little of value there. That, to me, is a blemish on an otherwise amazing run. Monster is a challenging listen, much in the same way Pop is to some. But I love it. As previously stated, New Adventures in Hifi would benefit from being cut down a little, but it's still decent.

But OOT... ugh... give me Around the Sun any day over that.

Back on topic, I agree that U2 had a pretty perfect run from 1980-2004, 2006 if you wanna count the Vertigo Tour. There were of course a few misfires, but overall they did pretty good.

Yeah, I definitely think you should give OOT another spin, the non-singles portion of the album are some of their best work.

I’m a huge REM fan, but always felt they never had that perfect album. They never really had their AB or JT moment, OOT had shiny happy, Adventures had Binky and Zither, getting close several times but then shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[Gzusfrk]

Yeah, I definitely think you should give OOT another spin, the non-singles portion of the album are some of their best work.

I’m a huge REM fan, but always felt they never had that perfect album. They never really had their AB or JT moment, OOT had shiny happy, Adventures had Binky and Zither, getting close several times but then shooting themselves in the foot.

Huge REM fan here too! For me, their closest to perfection were Document (It's the end of the world, meh), and Automatic. Also Murmur is pretty much great from start to finish.

Outside of Radio Song and Shiny Happy, I think OOT is amazing as well

 

[Mac_Fly]

But OOT... ugh... give me Around the Sun any day over that.

Half A World Away and Country Feedback alone are worth the price of admission for that album.

 

[trevgreg]

I actually like all 5 of REM's post Bill Berry records, even the much loathed Around the Sun.

I'll always have a soft spot for Aftermath. Or Electron Blue, for that matter.

Even stuff like Leaving New York or The Outsiders, I can get behind.

 

[CosmoKramer]

You're doing a lot of confusing your opinion with objective fact here.



I am not sure how many would agree with your take on Rattle and hum. Sure, it was an awkward, over the top era that produced a backlash as time went on. The album itself was a massive seller that included such "lumps of shit" as : Desire, Angel of harlem, Hawkmoon, God Part 2, All I want is you, love rescue me and Heartland.

Desire, Angel of Harlem and All I want is You are as good as ANY song U2 has written. God Part 2 and WLCTT rock and Heartland is a beautiful tune.

Rattle and Hum suffers from so so live cuts and not so good/useless live covers but it is a good album and it’s studio cuts are amongst their best.

 

[Nick66]

What REM is, is awesome, that's what they are. One of the greatest American rock bands ever. They're very cool and their legacy is quite secure.

After I'll go a long stretch without listening them, I'll cue up something from them and...wow. I'm always amazed just how damn good they sound, and how even their early stuff (especially their early stuff) sounds so vital and alive to me today. The REMsters just don't date for me at all.

What REM lacks that U2 has are the absolute highs. REM doesn't have a song that will take you to another plane like Streets. And while perfectly respectable, in concert to me they were never much more than adequate, whereas there was a time when, if you caught U2 on the right night, it was a transcendant experience.

But in terms of the entire body of work as a whole, I'd stack REM up against U2 any day of the week...probably titling slightly in favour of REM. And I think REM's throw away songs are, on average, better than U2's. Stipe isn't the frontman that Bono is, but he has a soulfulness to his voice that I bet Bono on some days envies.

For example, if this cover of the great Glen Campbell tune doesn't reach into your heart, grab it and shake it around a little, nothing will...listen to Stipe wail..."still on the line"...at the end. Fucking goosebumps.

 

[Nick66]

 

[corianderstem]

What REM is, is awesome, that's what they are.

 

[The_acrobat]

Desire, Angel of Harlem and All I want is You are as good as ANY song U2 has written. God Part 2 and WLCTT rock and Heartland is a beautiful tune.

Rattle and Hum suffers from so so live cuts and not so good/useless live covers but it is a good album and it’s studio cuts are amongst their best.

In my world I have made Rattle and Hum into 2 albums. One is live, and includes all those incredible live versions from the movie that were not in the album.

Disc 2 has the 9 original songs from R&H, Hallelujah (here she comes), Room at the heartbreak hotel, and some of the b-side covers like Dancing Barefoot and Jesus Christ. Would love a R&H 30th anniversary reissue this year, with outtakes, etc.

 

[CosmoKramer]

In my world I have made Rattle and Hum into 2 albums. One is live, and includes all those incredible live versions from the movie that were not in the album.

You know, it always bothered me that they left so many of those live versions off the album!

With or Without You (epic version)
Streets
Bad
In Gods Country
I also like the Desire performance and love the "Woo" at the beginning vs the "yeah".

I actually really like the Still Haven't Found version and was happy that made the cut.

I'll also agree with you b-side mentions of hallelujah here she comes and Heartbreak Hotel.

 

[lazarus]

I’m a huge REM fan, but always felt they never had that perfect album. They never really had their AB or JT moment, OOT had shiny happy, Adventures had Binky and Zither, getting close several times but then shooting themselves in the foot.

Huge REM fan here too! For me, their closest to perfection were Document (It's the end of the world, meh), and Automatic. Also Murmur is pretty much great from start to finish.

Outside of Radio Song and Shiny Happy, I think OOT is amazing as well

Automatic has Ignoreland. So that one ain't close to perfect either. Murmur is maybe a song or two too long, the closer West Of The Fields really doesn't hit the level of the rest (I feel the same way about Shadows and Tall Trees, tbh).

Document is close, but Lightnin' Hopkins is probably the weak spot there. Lifes Rich Pageant may be even closer, unless you really dislike Hyena.

 

[Gzusfrk]

Automatic has Ignoreland. So that one ain't close to perfect either. Murmur is maybe a song or two too long, the closer West Of The Fields really doesn't hit the level of the rest (I feel the same way about Shadows and Tall Trees, tbh).

Document is close, but Lightnin' Hopkins is probably the weak spot there. Lifes Rich Pageant may be even closer, unless you really dislike Hyena.

Yeah, they should have saved Ignoreland for Monster, would have fit better, they sure had a couple other gems in the can for those sessions that would have been nicer in that slot, but they couldn't leave the "political" song off (sound familiar??)!

I think Lightnin' Hopkins has the same noisy , ramshackle feel as some of Document, and I LOVE West of the Fields. All of Murmur has the same feel as a good Flannery O'Connor or William Faulkner novel IMO.

Makes me think of how much REM actually changed my life, in so many ways. U2 was may favorite band, but REM "influenced" me more, if that makes sense. From their artwork, to their beautifully mysterious videos ("Left of Reckoning" ), how they named the sides of their albums, REALLY showed me that the mainstream wasn't the ONLY stream! Great memories!!

 

[Rachel D.]

Desire, Angel of Harlem and All I want is You are as good as ANY song U2 has written. God Part 2 and WLCTT rock and Heartland is a beautiful tune.

Rattle and Hum suffers from so so live cuts and not so good/useless live covers but it is a good album and it’s studio cuts are amongst their best.

Agreed. The studio tracks on R&H are some of my favorite U2 songs. They should have ditched the live songs and made a shorter album, or beefed it up with some of the material they used as B-sides. They could have used the live songs as B-sides instead.

 

[Axver]

Automatic has Ignoreland. So that one ain't close to perfect either. Murmur is maybe a song or two too long, the closer West Of The Fields really doesn't hit the level of the rest (I feel the same way about Shadows and Tall Trees, tbh).

Document is close, but Lightnin' Hopkins is probably the weak spot there. Lifes Rich Pageant may be even closer, unless you really dislike Hyena.

Ignoreland is one of the better songs on AFTP. Friggin' laz.

 

[The_acrobat]

Just listened to "Perfect Circle" for the first time in years... my life has been forever changed, yet again! Next up, "Harborcoat"... this old REM shit is amazing!

However, I also was quite moved by the Man Sized Wreath / Supernatural Superserious combo. Such a good band, I wish they were still around. I am loving this REM resurgence I'm having, thanks to this thread!!

 

[Mac_Fly]

U2 and REM are my two favorite bands.

But I like U2 far and away more.

REM kind of fell off a cliff with me with the New Adventures album. I only liked 4 out of 14 songs on that one. It's not like i didn't give it a fair trial, must have listened to it 1000 times.

That was even before the departure of Berry.

After Berry, sorry but . . . . . no.

I tried. Over and over again.

REM basically ended for me after Monster. But I really like Electrolyte.

 

[womanfish]

Just listened to "Perfect Circle" for the first time in years... my life has been forever changed, yet again! Next up, "Harborcoat"... this old REM shit is amazing!

However, I also was quite moved by the Man Sized Wreath / Supernatural Superserious combo. Such a good band, I wish they were still around. I am loving this REM resurgence I'm having, thanks to this thread!!

Now go listen to Wendell Gee. Such a great tune. Perfect Circle was just a life changer for me as well.

OOT is a tough album. I loved it so much in the day, but looking back it is by far their most uneven album. It contains two of my favorite REM tunes of all time, and then a few other incredible songs. Then it has Radio Song, Shiny Happy, Low (meh), Endgame (filler) and Near Wild Heaven (so so).

The triple hit of Half a World Away, Texarkana, and Country Feedback is probably my favorite little run off any REM album.

REM and U2 had such a parallel run of greatness. Mirroring each other in many ways of how they progressed.

Murmer = Boy
Reckoning/Fables = October
Life's Rich... = War
Document = UF
Green to OOT was pretty much their Joshua Tree time of really hitting it big
Automatic = AB
Monster = POP
This is where it kind of starts to get shaky
You could say UP = ATYCLB kinda
I would actually equate New Adventures with No Line.

then after that... U2 has put out two incredibly solid late career albums with SOI and SOE. REM not so much except Collapse into Now was pretty strong.

cheers to all you REM fans! been listening a lot these past couple days.

 

[Hollow Island]

have you guys been listening to R U Talking REM Re. Me?

 

[Hollow Island]

Any R.E.M. “great run” that doesn’t include Up can get stuffed, Bill Berry or no Bill Berry.

hear hear! I've been listening to Up for the first time in years lately and forgot how incredible it is. It's emotionally draining but the songs are great and it's sonically as interesting as anything U2 ever did. Reveal is great too. To me it sounds like a mix of Up and Out of Time.

 

[lazarus]

have you guys been listening to R U Talking REM Re. Me?

Is this an episode of I Love Podcasts?

Their band member names this time aren't very funny, compared to Bonobos, Thedge, Larry Mullen Senior's Son, and Adam ClayTwoThousandPounds.

 

[Hollow Island]

you poppin' my stones?

I like Michael Stipe& but the other names aren't as good.

one of my favorite moments of both podcasts is Scott's sudden "I want to blow my head off, this is so good" while listening to Gardening At Night.

i can't wait for the guests to arrive, but I don't think this show will be as good as the U2 one because REM aren't as ridiculous and their failures aren't funny like U2's are.

I hope they get Paul F Thompkins on the show - the exhaustive story of his love affair with U2 was fascinating.

The Scotts mentioned Pavement during the Reckoning episode; I hope they do a Pavement podcast next. That would be fucking hilarious. Malkmus, Spiral Stairs and Nastanovich would probably be game for appearing, too. Speaking of appearances, I bet Mike Myers will show up to talk some REM with the Scotts.

 

[corianderstem]

REM kind of fell off a cliff with me with the New Adventures album.

Crazy talk. I will not accept this blasphemy.

 

[Nick66]

Crazy talk. I will not accept this blasphemy.

New Adventures is great. I love that record. I also like Reveal & Collapse of their later period records.

On the other hand, post New Adventures I can't say I'm a big fan of Up, Accelerate or Around the Sun (though Leaving New York is one of my favourites).

 

[DeVaul]

The surround mix on the DVD audio version of Up is amazing. They closed out their career with 2 strong albums.

 

[Hollow Island]

Oh man, I can imagine how great Up would sound in 5.1.

 

[danm]

Do they need to be “relevant”? Even the band themselves think they need to be, but is it important? I don’t think so. Do Bruce Springsteen or Bob Dylan or any other older acts strive to be “relevant”?

The fact is, U2 are approaching 60, their “heyday” was 20-30 years ago. They still produce good music. SOE is their best album for quite some time. But they are also approaching the twilight of their career now, so striving to be relevant shouldn’t be such a concern. Producing good music should be the only concern.

 

[Joey788]

I don’t think U2 knows how to separate the two. For them, relevance and making good music are one and the same.

 

[trevgreg]

I don’t think U2 knows how to separate the two. For them, relevance and making good music are one and the same.

I think that's always been the case, really. The two are treated that they're mutually exclusive by some if they read enough interviews or don't like what they hear on the most recent release. But I don't know many bands that don't have an eye on both things to some extent. It's just this particular one's big enough where we get to hear soundbites like that if they say something about it.

 

[Axver]

I don’t think U2 knows how to separate the two. For them, relevance and making good music are one and the same.

The problem is that they get the equation around the wrong way. They seem to think that striving for relevance will beget good music. Rather, striving for good music will, if you're lucky (as U2 were for about twenty years), beget relevance.