14 year old baby

[For Honor]

I'm writing this because it's an odd situation that I don't have a lot of experience with, but maybe some others here do.


I am a senior in highschool, and I, for the longest time, have had extreme issues with maturity, and I've even grown to despise kids at school. But I realized that they were just kids, and in fact, so am I, among other relizations.....


But this is something else - Zack.


He is my neighbor that I see on the weekends.
He is a 14 year old freshmen
He lives in a home with his mother, his grandmother, grandfather, aunt who cannot use her legs, and another elderly man that they take care of.
He sees his day on Sundays for a few hours.... sometimes.

We've grown closer, I suppose, because of all the things that have happened over the last two years, and he consistently calls me his best friend. I don't mind any of that so far.



But here is the issue:

There is an obvious need of a male role modle, and also for any sort of friendship in Zack's life. He is very isolated- he has no real neighbors or anything like that, except for me. Zack is a kid with a good heart, but his environment has allowed him to be a child, a baby for too long, and he needs to grow up.

I'm serious, and I'm not being mean.

Every aspect of his personality is immature

- manners; like respect, and hygiene and even chewing with your mouth closed
- school; he doesn't care. He has a great memory, and is very smart, but despite my efforts, he seems to not care
- lazy; with school, but also ......... for instance, I have to call him, hassel him to come to a martial arts class every Friday night, and when he gets there, he just sits in a chair the whole time, unless I taunt him or something, which I don't like doing.


That's the most destructive thing: he interacts with people in a way that causes arguments, or allows him to get upset. That's the only way he associates with people, and I'm confronting him about that. It's just like a child.


This is a diffucult thing to deal with, because it's a situation where I need to show compassion and authority. And no, this is not my problem, but as his chosen role modle, I do play a major role in how he turns out.


This sort of reminds me of all the "Dr. Phil" shows, where the parents say how a child is a lot more work than they expected. I think that really, I have to show more discipline myself, and be on the ball all the time, and not just get lazy and slip into the "game" of insults and such.

and again, no, this isn't my problem, but things like this are nothing new, so I'm not going to simply detach myself from the problem. Also, I don't want to turn this into a thread where I vent about Zack, so if I start doing that too much, just let me know. I hope my kid, as a child, never gets this way..... but..... I'm sure I can use this situation in order to gain expereince for things down the road.

Yes, I understand he is only 14 years old.
But at the same time, he is 14 years old, and not 10, or 7, or 3.


So any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'll bring up more issues, but there are so many that I don't want to overwhelm you on this first post. The worst thing, well, most difficult I should say, is the way he embraces his immaturities.


--------

But since I am his closest friend, perhaps he will consider my attitude towards this. And personally, I've made the situation worse be being critical to (perhaps to an extreme). So I will beging to monitor my own actions, and try not to "enable" him to do certain things.


but if I could take one simple problem to begin with...... it would be ........... CHEWING WITH YOUR MOUTH OPEN.....

I know it's trivial, but..... it..... sometimes I just have to ......
....... maybe I should just try to sit as far away from him as I can.
But he just says "I'm congested", or "I can't breath through my nose".

And yeah, I'll give him that, but not all the time. He takes anything that might slightly be viewed as criticism and perceives it as being a personal offence.


Kids.......

 

[Liesje]

I'd say he could only benefit from some sort of therapy. Of course it may not be your place to say this up front to his mom. If you know where he goes to school, you could explain the situation to a counsellor who would then be responsible for looking into it and approaching the parents about therapy and improving the situation. If he doesn't deal with this soon, he's going to be a terrible adult and it will be much more difficult (or unlikely) for him to adjust later on.

 

[Laura M]

Personally, 14 is still a very young age for a boy. It is not your place to tell him that he should go to martial arts class, "taunt him", tell him about his hygiene or not to eat with his mouth open. I feel his guardians need to guide him, and if he needs any help it's up to them to get it for him, chances are as he gets older he'll probably learn how to act around people.

You are there to be his friend. I don't mean to be really negative in this post but the kid is only 14, you can't talk about this situation and say it will give you experience for your own children, I don't think you should be viewing it like that. You aren't there to be his father or his male guardian. Be his friend, if you want to tackle him about something do it in a polite and friendly way, resorting to insults and taunting him isn't going to make him change. Also, and maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't really see what the kid is doing is really that wrong. I have friends in their 20's and they still act like my 12 year old cousins on occasions, I also know that most of the 14 year olds that live here love nothing more than being a bit cheeky with people, I thought that's how a lot of young boys like to behave but they all usually, grow out of it.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

He sounds like my friend's 11 year old stepson. She says that he constantly picks fights, acts like kids who are more than half his age, etc. He's also "always sick" and we think his mother has that Munchausen Syndrome, which could be related to his behavior. I think they have discussed therapy, but yeah, it's very disturbing to even hear about. I feel bad for the kid.

Hopefully your friend can talk to someone and get some help.

 

[For Honor]

He's mentioned that he sort of does see a counselor......


and the only reason I've begun taking it upon myself is because his.... behavior..... is beginning to affect me. He's being disrespectful to the people around me, and that crosses the line.


His parents don't really care, and I don't feel "obligated" to help him out, no. I don't expect some sort of karmic reward, or god to smile upon me.

And just because he's friends with me doesn't mean I'll accept someone acting like a baby - I hold everyone to the same standards.

That's oart of the problem - he's never met anyone who hasn't treated him like a baby, as in giving him whatever he wants when he wants it. He expects to be paid for anything he does. And I'm not going to fold. If he doesn't like it, he has his options, but deep down he knows what my intentions are, and why I say what I say, so I'm slowly making progress.


I mean, when he says he has plans about having an apartment with me after later on in life, I mean, it's better to solve things now. I don't know if that's something I would do anyways. He always follows you around, too, really closly. He's afraid of a lot of things, yet he expects much from you. He wants his cake and to eat it to.

And, right or wrong, when he's around me, it's not always going to be like that.

 

[beegee]

lara is absolutely right.

i agree with everything she said.

 

[For Honor]

On a deeper level, I've considered how this is an instance where I can step back and look at myself - what am I really doing to the situation.


I have shown patience, but perhaps not enough. And perhaps I shouldn't be as involved as I am. It's difficult for me, I realize, to just...... to ....... to see a flaw, and not try to do something about it. Even though some things are just trivial....

Still.....


And maybe I hold a grudge with kids/people who are "immature", as I say, because I feel like I can't be that way. So perhaps I have some issues there. I do believe that if you have a problem with something, the problem generally comes from yourself.


However, that being said.....

His consitent lack of respect and manners and.... just consideration are not something I'll take lightly any more.

I don't force him to come to martial arts class, it just seems that way, as if I'm doing him a favor, and that's completely false. He doesn't pay tuition (my father's school), and he expects to be entertained. The least he could do would be to attempt to try something, one form, but when ask him if he wants to do anything related to martial arts, he makes it seem like such a hassel.


And then resitance on both parts leads to the insult game, and perhaps I should just let it go. But I don't think he gets it that him just sitting the whole hour isn't very proffesional.




I don't usually take issue with people, but Zack just makes it that way. And he takes everything personally, which is something he's learned to do, as it's a mechanism that's rewarded him in his family. In one way, he is desperate for guideance, though he makes it seem like he doesn't want it.


I think the best thing, for now, is just to lead by example, and not give in to my temptation to be overly critical.



But the chewing thing......

that's something I will not back down on, ever.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

For Honor - judging by a number of your previous posts, you seem like a pretty good guy. I think you're capable of making a difference in this kid's life, unless I'm being too optimistic here. It will certainly take a lot of patience on your part, and most would give up long before you have. I myself had maturity issues around that age, but what I really needed were a good group of friends.

Good luck, I'm rooting for you.

 

[Laura M]

I have shown patience, but perhaps not enough. And perhaps I shouldn't be as involved as I am. It's difficult for me, I realize, to just...... to ....... to see a flaw, and not try to do something about it. Even though some things are just trivial....

Still.....


And maybe I hold a grudge with kids/people who are "immature", as I say, because I feel like I can't be that way. So perhaps I have some issues there. I do believe that if you have a problem with something, the problem generally comes from yourself.


However, that being said.....

His consitent lack of respect and manners and.... just consideration are not something I'll take lightly any more.

I don't force him to come to martial arts class, it just seems that way, as if I'm doing him a favor, and that's completely false. He doesn't pay tuition (my father's school), and he expects to be entertained. The least he could do would be to attempt to try something, one form, but when ask him if he wants to do anything related to martial arts, he makes it seem like such a hassel.


And then resitance on both parts leads to the insult game, and perhaps I should just let it go. But I don't think he gets it that him just sitting the whole hour isn't very proffesional.




I don't usually take issue with people, but Zack just makes it that way. And he takes everything personally, which is something he's learned to do, as it's a mechanism that's rewarded him in his family. In one way, he is desperate for guideance, though he makes it seem like he doesn't want it.


I think the best thing, for now, is just to lead by example, and not give in to my temptation to be overly critical.



But the chewing thing......

that's something I will not back down on, ever.

You know, there are a lot of things that my friends do that I sometimes take quite personally and that sometimes make me a little sour for a few days. But, after a while I've realised you can't help who you are. Some of my friends act in a certain way and it's nothing personal, it's just their way and it's been hard not being stubborn, but I've learnt to accept it and any gripes I do have I'm just letting them go. I've learnt that sometimes I can hold a grudge for a long time and the only person that's bad for is myself. Snapping at each other is only going to lead to both parites being bitter. You holding a grudge isn't affecting this kid Zack, it's only lingering in your mind.

I guess if you're a senior at high school you're a few years older than this kid. Don't assume that he wants guidance, you have to let a person find their own way in life. My family don't like my sisters boyfriend but we know if we interfere and try and get her to see he's not that good for her it will just cause tension. You have to allow a person to follow their own path, they willl hopefully see an error in their ways if there is one and correct it themselves. If he's not interested in the martial arts class, forget about it. It's up to him if he chooses to go, you just go and enjoy yourself. As for his lack of manners being something you'll not take lightly anymore well, you sound like his teacher or his guardian and that's not really a role you need to play for him. You don't need to keep him in line.

How about just being a friend for him. Why not focus on some of the issues you have with people. Learn to accept who they are and resolve your patience issues, you'd be much happier for it. If he's annoying you that much nobody is forcing you to be a role model for him. Don't keep up the resistance with him, that'll just cause more grief. In the past year I've started being more patient and letting a thing drop (and that was hard), but I feel much healtheir for it. Things will sort themselves out all in good time. I know you're trying to help him and you mean well but he needs to seek help, he doesn't need someone to tell him he does.

 

[For Honor]

Hey, thanks.

Yeah, I think that's one way I have to look at this - I need to help him be being a good friend, and not entirely some parental figure. Being patient and steadfast is probably going to be a must, since, as he says, we are both "Taurus"s (the 2nd zodiac sign). It's funny how there are similarities that correspond with the zodiac, though I'm not sure how much I would.... um.... endorse it.

Perseverence, patience.... (well, one of us is really impatient, actually.....)((edit: what I mean by that is, I've been very patient for a long time, non of this is new, and that's why I'm beginning to show some resistance, because there has been no change for a long time now. He admits to and glorifies his own impatience, and that seems to make him enjoy his ways all the more))), and stubbornness, (not to mention materialisim). I'll just have to be more stubborn than he is!
(just kidding...... perhaps......)


So yeah, the friend approach is what I will focus on. I have to rember that I was 14 once, and what I was like.

One mistake I won't make, though, is trying to completely change people. I've seen first hand how that can be destructive, yet at the same time, I have seen the fruits if it is gone about in the right way. But I mean to say I won't make it my personal mission to "rightesously correct and justify" Zack.

I am wary of falling into the trap of desiring to do a good thing and being blind to the destructive reality around it.


So maybe this will take a lot more consideration than I thought... hmm...

 

[all_i_want]

the road to hell is paved by good intentions, i always say

 

[For Honor]

The chewing thing though.... I don't know if it's a weakness of mine, but just.... that noise......

I don't know, maybe I should just leave the room.


I've talked to him about it, in a reasonable, non critical way, but it's like it's not his fault or something. I don't know what to do.


I've tried to like eat something or whatever when he is, so there is some sort of a counterbalance. But man.......

I've did it once a long time ago, and maybe I should just do it again- wear hearing protective headphones that cut out the sound. But that sort of just reinforces that it's an acceptable behavior.

I don't know why it gets to me so much.
I really pride myself on being as stoic as possible - I did a report on stoicism for a bunch of classes. (speaking of which....... ) anyhow, it just irrates me. Maybe I should just turn up whatever I can or something, or put on headphones, but again, that just seems like I'm enabling the source of the problem to continue.

The chewing thing is a minute detail, but it's the most, well, piercing thing that comes to mind.


I don't mean to rant about it, but.......man......

He has good hearing too, and I don't even know how he does it.


Some adults around us are starting to crack down on that, so it's not just me. But still, just like anything else,

he only responds, he only reacts, he only complys if you get him upset. I'm really trying to figure out why that is, or at least some way to engage with him without conflict arising, but .....

it's as though conflict is neccesary to make anything happen.

I'm trying to talk through things so that conflict doesn't result, but it's really difficult, because (now, this is all subconcious, I don't think he does it intentionally), but he actually sets you up so that you are incredibly inclined to start an argument or something. And yeah, especially early on, I just argued with him, because I didn't know the difference. But I'm getting better at this.

The other day, he was really "acting up" (wow, I do sound like an old man.....)

and I just said to him "Is this how you associate with people?"
and he said, with regret and understanding, "yeah".


So, the situation is sort of like this: He doesn't really want to be totally "childish", because, even prior to this, he's admitted that he doesn't like how he acts a lot.

So he does want to make changes, too.

But it's weird - there is something that I can't quite label. There is a mechanism, or a series of habits that are commonplace, and it's like they just take over Zack. He doesn't have much self control - he's easy to get upset, and over the most simple things. It amazes me, and others, sometimes.

I think what he needs most, and this I cannot help him with, is simple life experience.


He is so used to acting like he is at home with his "mommy" (he's spoiled, as I've said before). He really just has no idea that there is a realm outside of that, nor a concept that he is not living in the real world- and that, I am certain, is the reason he struggles in multiple areas.

Not being derogatory to him, but, he's just been so sheltered and so confined that he is very much like an infant when it comes to life.

He's afraid of the dark......


So I guess he has a lot of insecurites, and well, is used to having someone hold his hand, and used to having someone react if he acts like a baby. Surprisingly, he hasn't gotten it yet that if you act like a baby in the outside world, you will be treated like one, or just mistreated.

(wow, I am really making some sense to myself here, but I have to go. I'm writing this all out because it helps me understand the situation, and all these things I see.)

sorry if this is really long, but, I think it helps me see more clearly.


until next time

 

[For Honor]

...back with an update.... ugh....


He did really poorly in school this year, and I dont know if he is going to be held back a year or not.


I wish I could think of some way to motivate him. He worships me for some reason, so I'm sure if I take some actions, he will make some progress. BUt summer is on it's way, and I will be leaving for college when winter comes. I don't know....

I want Zack to do things right, and someone has to do something about it.


He deals with his family stress be reverting to immaturity, and he openly admits this to me, though no one else really listens. I think his mother tries well, but does not succed in properly motivating or parenting him. And I think that school has become a place that he does not think of as a place to work.

He is very lazy... yet he understand his lazyness and sees why and how.



The thing that he doesn't get is that he wants to be treated like an adult - with respect - yet refuses to give up his childish ways. I'm slowly influencing in underrstanding that. But when we have serious conversations, he honestly doesn't understand what it means to act like an adult. He wants both worlds, and I have to figure out some way to explain such things.

Yes, he is only 15 now


But he is on his way to becoming a man, and he needs a lot of work. As someone he looks up to I am responsible in some ways to help guide him.

I am still supposed to be his friend. But even a friend would help someone when they needed it. I worried about him because if he doesn't change his ways soon, he will be in highschool for a long time. And perhaps the worst thing is, he has one of those "attention deficit" disorders.... but he admits, and I know, that he is just not focusing, and he has trained himself not to focus, and not to pay attention.

That has been his way out of things, and his way to enjoy things he wants to do...


....15 year old baby


But I realize now, he needs someone to be there for him and not criticize him, or correct him.


He needs a good friend and close relationship- for that is what he lacks the most. I am fortunate in that my parents - mother, father, and stepmother all care for me alot. But I am incredibly fortunate that my father chose to stay in my life after separating from my mother, and he is responsible alone for the development of my morals, principles and ideals of what is right or wrong. He is the only person I can talk to deeply about things, and about anything, basically.

Zack does not have that, nor much else in terms of family support..

When I am over at my stepmothers house (on the weekends), he is our neighbor, and he spends a lot of time at my stepmothers house.


He has to develop his own life and friends...... but at the same time, he is a kid. And not every kid can be like me...... I was....... very different...... at his age.........


But not that I am better or worse.... more so I am just saying that to remind myself that Zack is living a different experience that I was, so I can't apply the same methods, or expect I understand everything.


mmm, yes,.....

I shouldn't expect I understand everything,.......



Well, thanks for reading
Again, this post was another in my series of posts written by myself and essentially for myself - in order to better understand and comprehend.


But any comments or questions, as always, are welcome.