Songs of Ascent V - The Final Bell

[mikal]

I never understood this.

NLOTH2 > NLOTH is the weirdest U2 opinion there is. It's just bizarre.

i couldn't agree more. i like NLOTH2, but i still think it sounds like a faster, sloppy version of the original.

the original NLOTH easily ranks in my top 10 U2 songs.

 

[Niceman]

The one I don't count as a studio album is Rattle & Hum. And too bad it isn't just a studio album, 'cause most of those tracks are bangin'...and I hardly ever listen to the live cuts. In fact, just listen to the studio portion by itself in the same order and you'll see what I mean...

So, with the upcoming newest album, the count will be 13.

Boy/October/War/TUF/TJT/Achtung Baby/Zooropa/OS1/Pop/ATYCLB/HTDAAB/NLOTH/SOA(?)

Does that mean I can chose to not count ATYCLB because I don't like it?

 

[digitize]

Counting OS1 but not R&H a full U2 studio album is rather absurd (this coming from someone who loves OS1 and considers R&H by far U2's worst album).

 

[VintagePunk]

It doesn't make an ounce of sense to put out the album this year if they can't get it out before the tour resumes.

The only choices, IMO, are that they finish it and put it out around the resumption of the tour (maybe even extend the tour if it does well) or that they hold on to it and work on it for the next year or so after the tour ends.

Album in June of 2010 or 2012.

Sadly, I tend to agree with you. It makes no sense to me at all for them to release it after the tour.

 

[God Part III]

didnt pearl jam tour before their new album was released?

So did Radiohead before In Rainbows.
But I don't buy it.

If U2 didn't dare playing Drowning Man last summer, they won't dare to play a whole new song live.

They're perfectionists, for better or for worse.
I could be wrong, but if SOA or whatever it's called isn't released in 2010, I doubt we will hear material from it live on tour.

 

[God Part III]

the original NLOTH easily ranks in my top 10 U2 songs.

And in mine too, actually.

 

[Screwtape2]

Was there actually a great lead single on NLOTH? I keep reading about what songs should have been released first but is it possible that they just didn't have one? If you look back did Pop? Did Zooropa? It is possible that three out of their last five albums didn't have that great lead single. A meditative lead single could be the best thing for U2 right now because they can't release the same thing a fourth straight time. They need to release a wildcard that no expects, that isn't a 3-4 minute rock song and that will spark interest. What they need is something like a With Or Without You.

 

[Utoo]

Was there actually a great lead single on NLOTH? I keep reading about what songs should have been released first but is it possible that they just didn't have one? If you look back did Pop? Did Zooropa? It is possible that three out of their last five albums didn't have that great lead single. A meditative lead single could be the best thing for U2 right now because they can't release the same thing a fourth straight time. They need to release a wildcard that no expects, that isn't a 3-4 minute rock song and that will spark interest. What they need is something like a With Or Without You.

Agreed. As much as it hurts to say, though, I do wonder if they are capable of achieving another WOWY. I think they can probably do it musically, but I'm not sure about Bono's end of the deal. Two of the major aspects that make WOWY great (and One and a few others from the 87-91 glory years) are Bono's lower register and the sense of youthful romantic longing in his lyrics. Both of these things have been lacking on recent albums (with the exception of some decent pining on IALW). Even musically, what has been lacking is the "build and build and build until the edge of the cliff" that makes great U2 songs great. The lack of that build is why a good song like Magnificent can excite you and then bore you by minute three.

I think that while the band don't necessarily need to repeat their previous sounds to be successful, they do need to grab hold of various stylistic components once again, the aforementioned factors being chief among them

 

[yenlard]

so true about magnificent. the song reaches its peak too soon. and then it gets rather bland. from the way bono was talking wasnt every breaking wave something in the mold of with or without you? perhaps that could be the song that gets them away from vertigo and boots.

 

[VintagePunk]

I never could see the widespread worship of Magnificent. It's U2 by the numbers. So much so that I could see it being eyeroll-worthy to the general population. I like the song, don't get me wrong, but I don't worship it the way that some here do.

NLOTH is more awesomely subtle, that's why I think it would have been a great choice.

 

[Niceman]

I never could see the widespread worship of Magnificent. It's U2 by the numbers. So much so that I could see it being eyeroll-worthy to the general population. I like the song, don't get me wrong, but I don't worship it the way that some here do.

NLOTH is more awesomely subtle, that's why I think it would have been a great choice.

A really good song, but merely a really good song. Track 2 is MUCH weaker than tracks 1 or 3.

The WORSHIP of it here earned a lot of eye-rolls from me. Kind of like someone saying "U2 are great! I love One! That's their best song, right?"

 

[Irvine511]

well, One is their best song, possibly the best song by anyone.

but Magnificent has a rush to it that only CT achieves at certain points. not that all we want is the rush, but Mag has a pretty good one. but it is a U2-quest song, in the mold of MD or ISHF. so it is familiar territory, i agree.

 

[VintagePunk]

A really good song, but merely a really good song. Track 2 is MUCH weaker than tracks 1 or 3.

The WORSHIP of it here earned a lot of eye-rolls from me. Kind of like someone saying "U2 are great! I love One! That's their best song, right?"

You get it!

well, One is their best song, possibly the best song by anyone.

but Magnificent has a rush to it that only CT achieves at certain points. not that all we want is the rush, but Mag has a pretty good one. but it is a U2-quest song, in the mold of MD or ISHF. so it is familiar territory, i agree.

I'm not going to deny that One is a great song, but for me at this point, it's so overplayed that I've lost all ability to judge it fairly.

But no, Magnificent doesn't give me that rush - at least not as much as NLOTH does.

I'm trying to think of how to articulate this, and I'm probably not going to do it justice, but here goes - the U2 songs I love the most leave me with a huge sense of longing, along with a feeling that anything's possible. NLOTH does that for me. Magnificent doesn't. But it's all subjective, I realize.

 

[Screwtape2]

Agreed. As much as it hurts to say, though, I do wonder if they are capable of achieving another WOWY. I think they can probably do it musically, but I'm not sure about Bono's end of the deal. Two of the major aspects that make WOWY great (and One and a few others from the 87-91 glory years) are Bono's lower register and the sense of youthful romantic longing in his lyrics. Both of these things have been lacking on recent albums (with the exception of some decent pining on IALW). Even musically, what has been lacking is the "build and build and build until the edge of the cliff" that makes great U2 songs great. The lack of that build is why a good song like Magnificent can excite you and then bore you by minute three.

I think that while the band don't necessarily need to repeat their previous sounds to be successful, they do need to grab hold of various stylistic components once again, the aforementioned factors being chief among them

That constant building in WOWY combined with mysterious, meditative music is just the thing to peak mainstream interest. That kind of song leaves you wanting more. That's one of the refreshing things about Fez-Being Born. You come away from it feeling like you want more and to hear similar songs. It is a sketch. Bono's best lyrics have almost always been those sketches. If you want people to buy whole albums then make them curious about what other places the band and Bono are willing to take them musically and thematically.

so true about magnificent. the song reaches its peak too soon. and then it gets rather bland. from the way bono was talking wasnt every breaking wave something in the mold of with or without you? perhaps that could be the song that gets them away from vertigo and boots.

I agree about Magnificent. I love the song but I almost wish that they had held back the main riff until the middle of the song. Could you imagine that as the climax and second half? I'm very curious about Every Breaking Wave. The band's descriptions can be a bit misleading so who knows what it actually sounds like?

 

[Niceman]

well, One is their best song, possibly the best song by anyone.

but Magnificent has a rush to it that only CT achieves at certain points. not that all we want is the rush, but Mag has a pretty good one. but it is a U2-quest song, in the mold of MD or ISHF. so it is familiar territory, i agree.

One USED to be a really good song. No, that's not true. It USED to be a GREAT song. But it isn't anymore. For me, it isn't just that all of the life has been drained out of it by playing and over playing it as if we were trying to suck all of the oil up from the desert to fuel our German automobiles....

The Popmart tour ruined it. Yep, I blame Popmart. Up until then One was a little song, a dirty song, a sad song wherein we admit the problems in the private relationships that we don't usually talk about.
On the Popmart tour they turned it into a show closer. They made it bigger. Instead of "We're one, BUT WE'RE NOT THE SAME" it became; "WE'RE ONE (but we're not the same.)" The song became happy, it became a triumph, instead of the end of a relationship.
Yes, that's what the song used to be about. Hard to even imagine now, but I used to listen to Achtung like a story; either of a man's relationship with a woman or with God, but it's better if you imagine them both happening at once. One isn't the moment of reconciliation - at least, it didn't used to be. It was the moment of separation.
On Achtung baby they don't get back together until Ultraviolet, and even that falls apart in Acrobat and they are forced to come to a new and compromised accord in Love is Blindness.

So, to make a long story short: When One was a song about failure it was a great song, but now that it's a song about triumph, appropriate for weddings, bar mitzvahs, and charity organizations, it's become inverted and.....kinda crap!

When I hear it on the radio it's a little like running into an ex-girlfriend. I don't love her anymore. She still looks pretty but, she's not who she used to be. You know?

 

[Niceman]

You get it!

 

[VintagePunk]

So, to make a long story short: When One was a song about failure it was a great song, but now that it's a song about triumph, appropriate for weddings, bar mitzvahs, and charity organizations, it's become inverted and.....kinda crap!

When I hear it on the radio it's a little like running into an ex-girlfriend. I don't love her anymore. She still looks pretty but, she's not who she used to be. You know?

Are you married?

 

[digitize]

One USED to be a really good song. No, that's not true. It USED to be a GREAT song. But it isn't anymore. For me, it isn't just that all of the life has been drained out of it by playing and over playing it as if we were trying to suck all of the oil up from the desert to fuel our German automobiles....

The Popmart tour ruined it. Yep, I blame Popmart. Up until then One was a little song, a dirty song, a sad song wherein we admit the problems in the private relationships that we don't usually talk about.
On the Popmart tour they turned it into a show closer. They made it bigger. Instead of "We're one, BUT WE'RE NOT THE SAME" it became; "WE'RE ONE (but we're not the same.)" The song became happy, it became a triumph, instead of the end of a relationship.
Yes, that's what the song used to be about. Hard to even imagine now, but I used to listen to Achtung like a story; either of a man's relationship with a woman or with God, but it's better if you imagine them both happening at once. One isn't the moment of reconciliation - at least, it didn't used to be. It was the moment of separation.
On Achtung baby they don't get back together until Ultraviolet, and even that falls apart in Acrobat and they are forced to come to a new and compromised accord in Love is Blindness.

So, to make a long story short: When One was a song about failure it was a great song, but now that it's a song about triumph, appropriate for weddings, bar mitzvahs, and charity organizations, it's become inverted and.....kinda crap!

When I hear it on the radio it's a little like running into an ex-girlfriend. I don't love her anymore. She still looks pretty but, she's not who she used to be. You know?

I don't understand this. What the band are doing with a song twenty years after they recorded it affects the quality of that song in its original state? And I still see the song as being extremely bittersweet... probably being at its most downright sad during PopMart... see especially the Sarajevo show. It lost a lot of its raw sexuality during PopMart, sure, but I personally feel like it gained a lot of emotional power stuck at the end of the crazy supermarket.

 

[Niceman]

Are you married?

Haha! No, just have a bunch o ex-girlfriends!

 

[corianderstem]

When you've run into that ex-girlfriend, is it she who has changed? Or is it your perspective of her?

I'd say the same goes for the song. Just because you view it differently now, and maybe 5,000 other people view it differently now, doesn't mean someone might come to it as a new-to-them song and be blown away.

The song is still great. Perspectives and interpretations may have changed, but the song is still the song.

 

[Niceman]

I don't understand this. What the band are doing with a song twenty years after they recorded it affects the quality of that song in its original state? And I still see the song as being extremely bittersweet... probably being at its most downright sad during PopMart... see especially the Sarajevo show. It lost a lot of its raw sexuality during PopMart, sure, but I personally feel like it gained a lot of emotional power stuck at the end of the crazy supermarket.

The words are the same, but the meaning is different. The song is triumphant now. It used to be about failure. If they sang the song the way they used to, with the same meaning and feeling it would be the worst song in the world to name a charitable organization after - unless it's some Kevorkian right-to-die charity, I guess?

If you aren't feeling that the way I am I don't think it's something we can debate.

EDIT: I should add, I'm always surprised when I listen to an old version of the song that it is better than I'm now used to it being by listening to recent performances. It still suffers from over-playing, but not from inverted meaning.

 

[Niceman]

When you've run into that ex-girlfriend, is it she who has changed? Or is it your perspective of her?

I'd say the same goes for the song. Just because you view it differently now, and maybe 5,000 other people view it differently now, doesn't mean someone might come to it as a new-to-them song and be blown away.

The song is still great. Perspectives and interpretations may have changed, but the song is still the song.

IMHO it's not just that I've changed. The intention of the song seems inverted. Now it's about bring people together despite their differences. It really was a divorce once upon a time.

 

[Irvine511]

One USED to be a really good song. No, that's not true. It USED to be a GREAT song. But it isn't anymore. For me,

right, for you. i understand your opinion as a super-fan.

however, for the rest of the world, it's almost inarguably their greatest song, and one of the greatest songs ever written. period.

 

[corianderstem]

Scoot over, make room for me on that One Is Great couch.

 

[Niceman]

right, for you.

for the rest of the world, it's almost inarguably their greatest song, and one of the greatest songs ever written. period.

Well, being that the whole point of message boards is to share opinions rather than to report objective fact, I would hope that "For me" would be implied. My going a step farther and ACTUALLY SAYING "For me" should make it kinda sorta clear that I am not under the illusion that I am reporting objective fact.........

I guess you are under the opinion that your opinion is something more than opinion? Well, I won't be the one to break the news to ya!

(P.S. I used the word "opinion" 3 times in a single sentence and deserve a reward!)

P.S.S. Even in 1991 "One" was NEVER their best song for me, or for most U2 fans that year.....A GREAT song, yes, but there ARE better! (It was never even the best song on AB for me. That's The Fly!)

 

[corianderstem]

I should clarify that I don't actually think it's their greatest song. It's up there, though.

I just think a song is great, or it isn't. A song can't change - you might be sick of it, you might see it through different eyes and hear it differently over time, but the song is still the song.

Edit: Which, I guess, doesn't really mean squat considering we're still just talking about opinions, but phhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhbt. Whatever. I'm tired.

 

[Irvine511]

i totally understand, but when looking at U2's career, i think we can objectively say that they have several songs that are commonly understood to be their "best."

One
WOWY
Streets
BD
etc.

when their eulogy is written, "one" will stand at the absolute top of their song cannon. that's all i'm trying to say.

it's absolutely reasonable for a casual fan to think that their best song is one, and they well could be right. for all my friends who are casual to moderate fans, they all have a deep bond with "one." it's an extraordinarily moving song. as super-fans, we probably have spent enough time with the songs to love them and fall out of love with them and fall back into love with them, and back out. they change as we change, sometimes for the worse. my favorite song is "stay," but i don't think it's commonly understood to be among their best songs like One, Streets, etc.

 

[VintagePunk]

Haha! No, just have a bunch o ex-girlfriends!

When you've run into that ex-girlfriend, is it she who has changed? Or is it your perspective of her?

I'd say the same goes for the song. Just because you view it differently now, and maybe 5,000 other people view it differently now, doesn't mean someone might come to it as a new-to-them song and be blown away.

The song is still great. Perspectives and interpretations may have changed, but the song is still the song.

I don't think he's saying that the song has changed, just that it's been co-opted by so many causes (along with the band) that its power has been diminished for some of us.

 

[corianderstem]

Well yeah, but it started off with him saying it used to be a great song and had become "kinda crap."

Again, opinions yada yada yada, but even understanding where he's coming from, it read to me like "the song used to be great and now it's crap."

I guess I'm too literal.

 

[Niceman]

i totally understand, but when looking at U2's career, i think we can objectively say that they have several songs that are commonly understood to be their "best."

One
WOWY
Streets
BD
etc.

when their eulogy is written, "one" will stand at the absolute top of their song cannon. that's all i'm trying to say.

it's absolutely reasonable for a casual fan to think that their best song is one, and they well could be right. for all my friends who are casual to moderate fans, they all have a deep bond with "one." it's an extraordinarily moving song. as super-fans, we probably have spent enough time with the songs to love them and fall out of love with them and fall back into love with them, and back out. they change as we change, sometimes for the worse. my favorite song is "stay," but i don't think it's commonly understood to be among their best songs like One, Streets, etc.

People who really know U2 learn that Stay belongs on that short list!

I don't suggest that they leave One off of the next U218 Best-of. It is one of their more famous and popular songs. That not debatable. But it doesn't change anything I've said.

And it IS the song that people without any taste or knowledge of the band will tell you is their favorite U2 song, or sometimes favorite song period. That DOESN'T mean that no one with taste will have the same opinion, some do and I respect that, but it is the U2 song that most people without taste will call their favorite....