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Old 12-01-2004, 10:25 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
God could be angry with me when I do something wrong and happy with me when I do something right. So God's feelings about me and how God looks upon me obviously change.
I'm sure God's been angry with me before, but when I allow him to teach me, he will forgive me.
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Old 12-01-2004, 10:29 AM   #17
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Well, yes, of course.
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Old 12-01-2004, 10:32 AM   #18
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Then again, I suppose I'm missing a shade of meaning here--although God's "feelings" (LOL, what a weird thing to say about God) might change, I guess, God's nature does not--which is what I guess the "unchanging" argument is getting at. The OT God was merciful, too, for example, it's just that God chose to reveal Christ when God did for...whatever reasons. Or the same things always anger God, and the same things always please God. That kind of thing.
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Old 12-01-2004, 10:35 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I'm sure God's been angry with me before, but when I allow him to teach me, he will forgive me.
this is getting pretty nit-picky and I'm not totally sure how I feel about this, but one could argue that God doesn't get "angry" so much as He is hurt that someone chose not to do the right thing. I dunno, it just seems like "mad" or "angry" have such negative connotations like one would seek to punish or get revenge.

I'm sure I'm making no sense....
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Old 12-01-2004, 10:36 AM   #20
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No, I think that's a good point. Either way, we know that our sins make God, let's say, grieved in some way.
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Old 12-01-2004, 10:49 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by blueyedpoet
If we can take a minute to step back from our preconceptions, I think the Old Testament will make a lot more sense. Image having no formal education - you know nothing about science. You are wandering around the desert. You have food today, God must be pleased with you. You don't have food and enemies have attacked you, God must be angry at you.
I think the nomadic tribes of Judah had a very small conception of God. For instance, for a long time they just believed their God was one of many.
excellent post, however it appears to have been overlooked. one must look at the "old" testament as an ignorant people writing an embellished history of themselves...in my opinion, if we are to be honest with ourselves.

also, to comment on the whole changing nature of god:

paul describes love to us in 1 corinthians as patient, kind, not envious, not easily angered, and holding no record of wrong. contrast this with YHVH and you are smacked with enormous contradictions leaving several options: god is not love, god changes, or paul offers a flawed albeit divinely inspired description. which shall it be?
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Old 12-01-2004, 10:51 AM   #22
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**double post***
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Old 12-01-2004, 10:57 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by paxetaurora
Then again, I suppose I'm missing a shade of meaning here--although God's "feelings" (LOL, what a weird thing to say about God) might change, I guess, God's nature does not--which is what I guess the "unchanging" argument is getting at. The OT God was merciful, too, for example, it's just that God chose to reveal Christ when God did for...whatever reasons. Or the same things always anger God, and the same things always please God. That kind of thing.
I think you nailed it here.

God's nature does not change.

Also, we are limited in our understanding of God based on our understanding of ourselves. God is capable of so many things simultaneously, that we cannot comprehend how a "change" of feelings may all occur at the same time.
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Old 12-01-2004, 10:58 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Se7en
contrast this with YHVH and you are smacked with enormous contradictions leaving several options: god is not love, god changes, or paul offers a flawed albeit divinely inspired description. which shall it be?
Could you give specific descriptions from Scripture?
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Old 12-01-2004, 10:59 AM   #25
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descriptions of which? sorry, i am slow today.
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Old 12-01-2004, 11:00 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivLuvAndBootlegMusic
this is getting pretty nit-picky and I'm not totally sure how I feel about this, but one could argue that God doesn't get "angry" so much as He is hurt that someone chose not to do the right thing. I dunno, it just seems like "mad" or "angry" have such negative connotations like one would seek to punish or get revenge.

I'm sure I'm making no sense....
I can understand how you feel about God and I have nothing against it. However, to sight an example, Jesus was angry quite a few times in the Gospel. It could've been because he was in the form of a man, but for sure God isn't always pleased with humanity. Yet he had the mercy to save us.

I know it doesn't elaborate much, but this link is pretty interesting.
http://members.aol.com/johnodhner/GodsAnger.html
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Old 12-01-2004, 11:05 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by Se7en
descriptions of which? sorry, i am slow today.
Scripture that shows that:

1. God is not love
2. God changes
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Old 12-01-2004, 11:16 AM   #28
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From a literary/historical standpoint (which is how we've been studying the Bible this semester), much of the difference has to do with the way the ancient Hebrews were viewing God.

The way I understand it, the Hebrews followed a code of strict monotheism. All good comes from God--and so does all evil. The evil spirit that plagues Saul, for instance, is sent by God. Originally, there was no Satan figure because that was a compromise of monotheism. (Job is one exception, and you'll notice that The Adversary is portrayed as being a member of God's court, not exactly the Satan figure we are familiar with)

However, you can't really reconcile a view like this with your daily life. God is good, but he also sends us evil? Why? How He do this to the faithful? Even more troubling were (and I'll have to look up the verse) the suggestions that the Israelites were set up to fail--God mentions giving them good and bad laws to follow, in order that they might distinguish between them.

After the fall of Israel to Babylon, if you read the prophets there is a real shift in perception. You start to see a move away from the "sins of the father" and into one of individual faith and responsibility. With Jeremiah, God establishes the internal covenant. Depending on your faith, you may or may not have the Apocrypha in your Bible, but this is where we see Satan, angels and demons play more of a part in the Hebrew faith, setting the stage for the New Testament, where we have a dualistic world. There is good, which comes from God, and there is evil, which comes from Satan.

So, I think it's something of both. God Himself didn't change, but he changed the nature of his relationship with the people. But the Hebrews perception changed, because it was just impossible to imagine a God who was responsible for the evil in the world.
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Old 12-01-2004, 11:17 AM   #29
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They do say having children will change you.

Seriously though...

Like some have touched upon I think it comes down to the perceptions of authors. A lot ot the OT happened before recorded history, a lot were stories just passed on so embellishments occur, and the overall education of humans was limited so explanation of God is limited.

I think it would be very similar to as if someone were to have recorded my explanation of God as a child compared to now.

As a child I would have spoke about how I need to not do this, or do this and God will allow me in heaven. It's a more simplistic fear driven belief, and as an adult that changes to a more complex but loving belief.
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Old 12-01-2004, 11:20 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Can you give example of God "making a mistake" or "feeling badly" or other "changes"?


Following the flood, God made a covenant that He would not destroy the earth by flood again. The sign of his covenant is the rainbow. He will, however, destroy the earth by fire when He creates the new Heaven and new Earth.

ah ok, I understand now I think. See, I'm not well-versed on the Bible at all. I definately believe in God and in Jesus but when it comes to knowing what the Bible says Im rather clueless. I always thought that God felt regret over acting so harshly by flooding the Earth the way He did and that the rainbow was His promise that He would try to be more patient and understanding with His children in the future.
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