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Old 12-05-2004, 12:56 PM   #91
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I think the comparison to Hitler is extreme, too, but it does show how much this guy is pissing the locals off. If they had a demonstration against this guy I'd definitely go.
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Old 12-05-2004, 04:08 PM   #92
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Originally posted by anitram


Not everyone agrees that homosexuality is related to character at all, and many believe it is something inborn, completely separate from "character."
Not everyone agrees that they are morally responsible for anything they do either.
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Old 12-05-2004, 06:28 PM   #93
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Not everyone agrees that they are morally responsible for anything they do either.
Without putting words into your mouth, I have a sincere question....

Are you saying that gay/lesbians are morally irresponsible?
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Old 12-05-2004, 06:35 PM   #94
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If you take Martin Luther King into account, he said that he dreamed of living in a nation where his children wouldn't be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. Homosexuality is not a skin color, but a content of character.

MLK had as much choice to be black as Oscar Wilde had to be gay.

gay people falling in love, having sex, and getting married harms aboslutely no one. it's what Jesus would have wanted.
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Old 12-05-2004, 06:47 PM   #95
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Originally posted by Irvine511
gay people falling in love, having sex, and getting married harms aboslutely no one. it's what Jesus would have wanted.
I can't guarantee you on that one.
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Old 12-05-2004, 06:54 PM   #96
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
I can't guarantee you on that one.
Jesus had nothing to say about homosexuality. he had plenty to say about loving your neighbor as yourself.

two gay men and two gay women are as capable of loving each other in as deep and profound and loving and (dare i say) Godly a manner as any straight couple out there.

i've seen it. it's very real. and i'd have to think Jesus would know love when he sees it.
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Old 12-05-2004, 10:02 PM   #97
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Originally posted by Irvine511
Jesus had nothing to say about homosexuality. he had plenty to say about loving your neighbor as yourself.
Not everything said by Jesus was recorded, but you're right about loving the neighbor as yourself. I don't know everything about Jesus and how he feels about it, I just know he loves all people. I do wonder why God would choose Paul as one of his prophets if homosexuality was not a sin (Paul spoke out against it, could've been a very human doctorine, rather than Godly, I don't know for sure).
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Old 12-05-2004, 10:06 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox

Without putting words into your mouth, I have a sincere question....

Are you saying that gay/lesbians are morally irresponsible?
The point I was making to anitram was that a fair share of the people who insist that homosexuality is not a content of character also believe that nobody has control over their own moral behavior.
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Old 12-05-2004, 10:12 PM   #99
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I believe people can control whether or not they act on their feelings, but I don't believe that people can control having the feelings themselves.

And personally, I would hope that a loving, consenting couple, regardless of whether they're straight, gay, or whatever else, would not have to be afraid to act on their love for each other. I also personally believe that God has no problem with homosexuality.

Angela
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Old 12-06-2004, 04:34 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
The point I was making to anitram was that a fair share of the people who insist that homosexuality is not a content of character also believe that nobody has control over their own moral behavior.
I would like stats on this thaat demonstrate what you are sying is accurate. That sounds like a blanket statement.
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Old 12-06-2004, 04:37 AM   #101
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Yes, I definitely would, too. I have no problem with homosexuality or homosexual relationships, but I sure as hell believe that mentally competent adults are responsible for what they do.
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Old 12-06-2004, 04:38 AM   #102
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Say what, we are all able to control our "moral character" but homosexuality is more an issue of sexual preference than anything else, now if you wanted to talk about harmful relationships within the context of homosexuality then I may be inclined to go along but sexuality in itself is inconcequential.
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Old 12-06-2004, 05:25 AM   #103
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Actually, while it may be argued that Jesus never explicity mentions homosexuality (which, as a word didn't exist until the 19th century), he does, I believe say something germaine to the topic...a sentence which is rarely quoted by either "side" in this ongoing debate.

Mark 10:2-9.

It is actually a discussion about divorce (Jesus is asked in a trick question by the Pharisees) as to whether it is lawful? As a part of his response, Jesus quotes Genesis: "But from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female.'"

Irvine511, you are right: Jesus concentrates a lot more on the sins of wealth than he does on the sins of sexuality. And when he talks about marriage, etc, it is usually about divorce. I think his words should make all of us Christians look more closely at our own sins.

This homosexuality question is such a difficult topic to discuss because it has (unfortunately) become in our overly-sexualized culture a central part of people's identity.
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Old 12-06-2004, 05:53 AM   #104
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So the word "homosexuality" dates from the nineteenth century. I knew it wasn't a very old word. My basic feeling on the matter is that if two people love each other that much, then so what about their gender. Two of my best friends are a gay couple so I think I know what I'm talking about. For that reason this stuff is a little personal for me, I can be a bit touchy about the matter.
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Old 12-06-2004, 06:05 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by pwmartin
Actually, while it may be argued that Jesus never explicity mentions homosexuality (which, as a word didn't exist until the 19th century), he does, I believe say something germaine to the topic...a sentence which is rarely quoted by either "side" in this ongoing debate.

Mark 10:2-9.

It is actually a discussion about divorce (Jesus is asked in a trick question by the Pharisees) as to whether it is lawful? As a part of his response, Jesus quotes Genesis: "But from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female.'"

Oh so now we're going to read between the lines again. Sorry but I don't believe in the defining of sins by reading between the lines. No other sin has ever been defined this way, and just because of some people's uncomfort, hatred, or whatever it may be I'm not going to start now.
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