Originally posted by nbcrusader
I say any subject can be discussed civily if the basis for the views are intelligently described. This goes for all "taboo" subjects such as denial of the holocost, biological superiority of race or gender, etc.
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
Yeah. As I've said before, we can't do anything about intolerance until we understand why those people are intolerant, and the only way we can do that is by allowing those who hold intolerant views to express them. I don't agree at all with the views of racists, homophobes, sexist people, and so on, but I'm sorry, their views still deserve to be heard. They are entitled to freedom of speech, too, along with all those who think opposite of them.
Originally posted by melon
However, when it comes to issues of homosexuality, I understand that the moderating / admin team isn't necessarily anti-gay, and I never wish to imply that. I think it is a matter of cultural conditioning; we still think it to be "normal" to question it, as if it were a anthropological antiquity and we expect the "religious" to start thumping irrational homophobic lines. However, I argue that if it isn't okay to be anti-Semitic, if it isn't okay to be misogynist, if it isn't okay to be racist, then it isn't okay to be homophobic. Period. If there were ever meaningful or rational discussion on this subject, then I wouldn't be writing this thread. But when all the arguments against it revolve around prejudice-tainted pseudoscience or religious arguments, that's why the subject is as offensive as any of the other taboos above.
Of course, maybe what I argue is 20 years down the road. It was difficult enough getting society to stop arguing that blacks were genetically inferior to whites. I guess it will take an equally long time to get people to stop arguing that homosexuals are genetically inferior as well. Whatever. People can believe what they want; just keep their prejudices out of this forum in the same manner we'd do to racists or anti-Semites.
As uncomfortable as many of these issues may make me, I feel it is necessary to allow the discussion of them in a forum devoted to the discussion of politics, spirituality, religion and world events. I think it's important to realize that various opinions, as offensive as they are, do exist, and do exist in people that are a lot like "us". If you never talk about these issues, how are you to know how widespread they are? I guess I just feel it is important to know what people are thinking about sensitive subjects, and perhaps be able to counter them and give a differing opinion.
Melon, I won't say that I understand your frustration, because not being in the same situation I can't, but I will say that I appreciate your viewpoint and especially your willingness to risk ridicule to state it. It's important that people are exposed to what you have to say. It's important that people understand just how unreasonable their arguments condeming homosexuality really are, or at the very least that their views are not universal.
My father destroyed his life and hurt his family terribly because he believed the vitriol spewed by homophobes. He turned that hatred inward to the point that he believed that everyone that was part of him was worthless. I'd like to believe that through open, honest discussion, other people won't have to suffer the anguish he and his family (including me) have had to face.
I feel that reasonable moderation can help keep nastiness in check, yet still allow for discussion of uncomfortable issues. Closing threads should be done as a last resort, but the occasional "cool it" post from a moderator might be handy. I've also posted in other forums where a thread is closed of a day or two and people are allowed to cool off and then the thread is reopened, allowing for continued, more orderly discussion. It really does work (well...most of the time). I do think threads are sometimes closed a little too quickly here, I've read through some closed ones and wondered why they got locked. Maybe I'm really thick, but often the closed threads don't even come close to what I would consider closeable (and I do moderate at another bulletin board, so I don't think I'm totally clueless).
As for "taking it off board" via email, PMing, chat, etc., I have done that before on the other board I mention above. This can work, but it also can be problematic. Since I am a moderator on this other board, I don't feel that I can always openly speak my mind when there is a personal attack on me (it happens), so I have contacted people by email or talked to them in the chat room frequented by members of that board to discuss the issue (s). Sometimes this works well, one of my best "board friendships" came out of several chat sessions after a particularly testy board discussion.
But other times it hasn't worked so well. I make a point that touchy issues I discuss in the chat room or in private emails stay there and don't get transferred to the boards, but I have had the person I was talking to feel that it was the perfect opportunity to smear me. So I find nasty little comments (quite twisted too) about me posted on a public bulletin board, and because I won't discuss it there, the poster who smeared me gets the last word (posts are extremely rarely deleted by anyone other than the original poster). Another point to consider when taking something off board is that emails etc. can get very ugly very fast! Sometimes it's best to keep the discussion out in public view.
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s to your father, too, by the way).
When I first started posting here, (only a month or so ago in this forum despite my long tenure on interference as a whole) I felt like nobody liked my opinions and wanted me to shut up and go away, and I felt some of the things you did, like the only reason I'm put up with is because there has to be somebody to talk down to, lecture, and try to 'reeducate' or something. After all, with no one to disagree with, there is no debate, and that is not much fun
