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Old 07-01-2004, 11:52 AM   #31
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Originally posted by paxetaurora
Please give us your opinions on this. We mods are in a very tough place right now in FYM--moderate too little, and we're accused to allowing hatred and intolerance to flourish; moderate too much, and we're censorious despots. We need YOU to help us find a happy medium.

I warn you this may necessitate some of you growing thicker skins. That goes for EVERYONE.
I've been here about two years and find this a largely civilized forum. I believe the mods do an outstanding job of applying the forum rules evenly and fairly.

We will always have to deal with a variety of posting styles - some comments are dropped in like a grenade, others designed to derail the conversation. Overall, the members deal well enough with the variety.

Personal insults do cross the line and there are a number of levels of name calling. Again, overall we deal with it. Usually the name calling is called out and dealt with.

I find the claim that the moderators allow hatred or intolerance specious at best. There are numerous views that can be considered hateful or intolerant. Again, we deal with it.

Pax summed it up well - we will all need to grow thicker skins.
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Old 07-01-2004, 11:57 AM   #32
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since we're living around the globe it could be REALLY difficult to get in touch with some people
Heh, tell me about it, right now its mid semester holidays but I am staying up to about 6:00am so I can get that rush of posts, its actually about 2 now.
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Old 07-01-2004, 11:58 AM   #33
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The only I fear about an "open" forum is that some might take that as "open season" to do anything they want. If someone gets offended and says so, they might say "I didn't attack you" and several of their friends will back them up. If you get into everything being "free" then there basically get to be no rules because we all have different opinions on what crosses the line and what is offensive. Someone may mean something as offensive, they say they didn't and try to make the person look stupid for complaining, when actually it was intentional. My best rule is, if someone says it offends them, then it offends them, and you can't apply your standards or personal feelings to that. If someone says they are offended, stop, or the person offended should be able to report the post and let the mods handle it together.
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Old 07-01-2004, 12:11 PM   #34
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I dont know if vB allows such limitations on pm, but I will ask him. It could be handy but I dont believe it is possible. One thing which is rather nifty is the ability to email through this site. However you need to be premium to access a profile so perhaps we can look at adding an 'email' button to the bottom of everyone's posts next to the buddy icon.

vB wont allow partial bans for threads. it allows forum bans, so it would be all of FYM and War as a subforum (in relation to what A_Wanderer was suggesting).

One more thing, when I named this thread, I had 2 things in mind. One was to have an actual Open Forum (this precise discussion) on the forum itself; and also the idea of how you felt this was moderated - is it too heavy etc and do you all want less control. So it isn't all about loosening the moderating, it's also a play on words which could suit one possible way of making FYM a better place for all.
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Old 07-01-2004, 01:17 PM   #35
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Maybe the mods can convince Elvis to change pm to non-premium and instead "subscribing threads", or having the chance to place smilies in postings or anything similar to premium?
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Old 07-01-2004, 01:44 PM   #36
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I think the Mods are in a very difficult position, especially because of the fact that they both participate in the discussions and have the power to close/control threads. That could be seen as a conflict of interest.

However, I think they do an absolutely fanstastic job given this situation. I used post on usenet groups years ago, but they were paralysing. Nothing was ever truly discussed the way it is in FYM. I don't think opening it up completely is a great idea.

I don't come around nearly enough to add much more. I have never really been personally attacked (or even picked up on a veiled attack, I can be a bit thick) or experienced to much of the "hate" that seems to have gone on. From what I have seen people who are hateful, racist, etc, don't last very long.

Though I do like Melon's comments on homophobia. I think that maybe he is 20 years ahead of his time, but it vital that he keep posting those types of comments here. That is the point isn't it?
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Old 07-01-2004, 01:47 PM   #37
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The Premium facilities have largely been decided on what is most exhaustive to bandwidth. Pm's unfortunately take up a lot of room. Please keep suggesting though and we'll see what Elvis thinks.

Also please feel free to comment on the moderating if you have a problem. Or contact us privately if you don't feel comfortable doing it in the open here. Not that we don't love the positive feedback though
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Old 07-01-2004, 03:34 PM   #38
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No offense, but I would not want people to MSN me or AIM me or anything like that to further discuss this. I know lots of people have 200 people on their MSN list, but I keep mine for friends and family and what's on the board stays on the board, IMO.

PMs are okay, e-mails to some cheap ass thing like Hotmail, okay, but anything beyond that would be asking for too much of an invasion of privacy, in my humble opinion, of course.
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Old 07-01-2004, 04:40 PM   #39
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somebody said to me that email was an option...no it's not because you cannot access people's profiles if you arent a premium member. I can't even email the mods. And yeah, I don't feel like giving out my msn or icq to people either...especially to people who feel like they strongly disagree with something Ive said in here....it could lead to a nasty situation. The only solution I can think of is to allow non premium members to have PMs. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't restirct this forum so non premium members can't use it.
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Old 07-01-2004, 04:44 PM   #40
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Angela Harlem:

Your text ~400 bytes, your smiley ~200 bytes (the drool - smiley for example >500 bytes) your avatar ~2.000 bytes.
The complete list of smileys >80.000 bytes!

You see you can write a lot of pms if you're not allowed to use graphical smileys ;-)
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Old 07-01-2004, 04:58 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by LoveTown
I can't even email the mods.
every mod has their interference email adress in her/his signature


on topic
I'm glad that there seems to be a major concensus
but it does surprise me a bit since it's at least not uncommon for threads ending up in people being upset with each other over certain "points of view"

the mod team has no intent to play kindergarten teachers over FYM
we never have and we probably never will if only because we haven't got the time to do so

thicker skin will indeed be necessary since we're also not willing to let bickering have too big a place in FYM
the thing about thicker skin is that it will solely be up to the members to make FYM work and not the mod team
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Old 07-01-2004, 04:59 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Klaus
Angela Harlem:

Your text ~400 bytes, your smiley ~200 bytes (the drool - smiley for example >500 bytes) your avatar ~2.000 bytes.
The complete list of smileys >80.000 bytes!

You see you can write a lot of pms if you're not allowed to use graphical smileys ;-)
Agreed (and don't forget graphical sigs). However, (derailing this thread even more to the Premium discussion of 18 months back) apart from cutting away these graphics for non-premium members, I'm still of the opinion that forums like FYM (and also Lemonade Stand) can be premium-only.
This is a U2 site/forum. As such, I think that all content directly related to U2 should be freely accessible for everyone (EYKIW, Musical Journey, PLEBA (even though that one is probably also heavy on bandwith due to the many pictures) EBTTRT, etc.). But Interference is also a community for some. What's wrong then with making the community-part largely premium? If U2 fans come here and like it here, they can become premium and have even more of the Interference community.
Of course, it'll mean some will go away, unfortunately. But those who will want to be part of the community, will become premium. And with a premium-only FYM, everyone will have the ability to send and receive PM's. Other suggestions will never work, because it's so easy to not use them without repercussions. Everyone can register and come in FYM without showing an email address, MSN name or whatever and they can post whatever they want.

Oh, and $10 still shouldn't be too much. It's one trip less to the cinema. Not going out to a bar will probably save you enough for a few years! And that DVD of Gigli, leave it behind in the store, use the $10 for Interference and don't even download it.

Bottom line, if you want to make sure that you can contact somebody outside the thread, then the forum will become premium-only.

C ya!

Marty
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Old 07-01-2004, 05:02 PM   #43
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I don't really have a lot to say on this subject, other than to say that I absolutely agree with melon's comments. I do find it frustrating that while threads which are overtly racist or anti-semitic will usually be locked, it seems that blatantly homophobic comments are allowed to remain. I don't buy the idea that someone should be allowed to make homophobic comments as long as they do so politely, it's the equivalent of saying it's acceptable to claim black people are inferior to white people just as long as you're polite about it.

I also agree with anitram and LoveTown - I would hate to have to give out my email address or AIM/ICQ/MSN names in order to post in this forum. I'm perhaps over sensitive to this subject because of having problems with someone sending me harrassing emails recently, but I think I'd rather give up posting here than be forced to give out my contact details to anyone who cares to know.
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Old 07-01-2004, 05:03 PM   #44
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First off, I don't want any of my comments construed to be a slam against the mods / admins. It is a very difficult position to be in, and I think they always do what they feel to be right. If we have disagreements, I always like to think that I write a respectful reply back to them.

With that, however, I think most of these "thick skin" advocates are, frankly, WASPs (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant) types, who, also frankly, don't have one clue what it is like to be a minority in society. I did not come here to Interference to see a major part of me be put up for debate like it is some anthropological antiquity at a regular basis. And then, when I defend myself, I get PMed for being too abrasive to all you people. Well, what do you fucking expect? I'm supposed to just sit back and be more "thick skinned" to accomodate all the ignorant and bigoted homophobic comments in here, while *I* am supposed to be nice?!

I'm really, quite honestly, exhausted, after four years of writing "enlightening" comments about the issue. I'm glad to read that some people here have gotten something out of it all these years, but I'm just tired of repeating myself. I don't care if people think that Jesus hates gay people or if you think the leprechaun under your bed hates gay people either. I don't care! I have my reasons, and I also consider myself Christian. I also came from a liberal / radical Catholic background, meaning that my more scholarly approach to religion is inherent to my belief system. I have my reasons to living my life the way I do, and I did not come here to read nearly incessantly offensive comments. Like I said, if it is not okay to be offensive to women, to people of other races, or to Jews / Muslims, then it is NOT OKAY to be offensive to homosexuals. Period.

Other than this subject, I think that FYM has been moderated well. We have been very good at debating "impersonal" topics, like religion, politics, science, etc.--topics that do not go to the core of who we are. But when we start debating whether one class of people are inherently evil or not, then that's where I have problems, and I am across the board on this.

Maybe my reply here is a bit harsh, but this is what I see in here. For the most part, I think this forum is very well moderated.

Melon
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Old 07-01-2004, 05:18 PM   #45
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I know nobody will listen to me, but I have a question about this taking up space thing. Do PMs, considering most people don't even use them even if they are available, take up more room than all those old threads? I can see the site archiving U2 related threads for historical purposes, since this is a U2 site. But is it really necessary to save every single thread from things like IO and LS, many of which are not much more than chatroom chatter? They may be fun while they are going on, but the threads come and go so quickly, is it really worth the space and cost of saving all those old threads? If it were my board, I would delete all the stuff that was fun at the spur of the moment, but not worth saving if it costs the owners and the premium members. So, could we have PMs and trade off dumping old useless off topic threads more than 6 months old?
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