Songs of Ascent - Part III

[Maoilbheannacht]

If i was in the room with Bono, I'd say "you've done it. Beautiful Day was a blockbuster hit. No one will ever forget that. Now you can relax and write the music you've always wanted to write." Trust me, the music wouldn't be weird avante garde jazzy shit, it would still have hooks and melodies. But in my opinion their music would sound more genuine, more lived-in, more about the music, and less about competing with here today gone tommorrow pop bands.

Beautiful Day is one of U2's best songs and is definitely in the catagory of a song the band always wanted to write. Its just as genuine as any other U2 song. U2 have never changed their approach to making albums since Boy. They have always wanted to make the best music possible while at the same time selling it to as many people as possible.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

I think that ATYCLB was the MOST forced, desperate to be relevant, desperate to appeal to the pop-kids album they've ever recorded!

Totally disagree. Plus, between POP and ATYCLB, POP was the one that turned out to be more radio friendly.

Singles from POP and ATYCLB charting in the USA HOT 100 AIRPLAY ONLY CHART:

POP

Discotheque #22
Staring At The Sun #16
Last Night On Earth #74



ATYCLB

Beautiful Day #19
Stuck In A Moment.... #56

 

[ozeeko]

Beautiful Day is one of U2's best songs and is definitely in the catagory of a song the band always wanted to write. Its just as genuine as any other U2 song. U2 have never changed their approach to making albums since Boy. They have always wanted to make the best music possible while at the same time selling it to as many people as possible.

That's what i was saying. Beautiful Day is no doubt the song U2 are remembered for this decade, and its one of those songs that will live on.

But in my not so humble opinion, I think Bono and the gang would find more success as "hitmakers" if they weren't so selfconscious about it. I think if they recorded a bunch of songs, then looked at them from a different angle, they'd probably see hit potential in at least some of them, for they are naturally gifted writers of music. But they should release something that isn't rewritten 15 times and dumbed down with the lyrics changed and a more obvious melody.

And U2 always change their approach to making albums. I don't know what gave you that idea that its been the same all these years.

And the difference between the U2 of old and new, is that in the past U2 wanted to be remembered around the globe for amazing music, whereas now U2 want to be remembered around the globe for that top ten hit single.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

That's what i was saying. Beautiful Day is no doubt the song U2 are remembered for this decade, and its one of those songs that will live on.

But in my not so humble opinion, I think Bono and the gang would find more success as "hitmakers" if they weren't so selfconscious about it. I think if they recorded a bunch of songs, then looked at them from a different angle, they'd probably see hit potential in at least some of them, for they are naturally gifted writers of music. But they should release something that isn't rewritten 15 times and dumbed down with the lyrics changed and a more obvious melody.

I don't think the band is overly selfconscious about having a hit single. The band always go through a lengthy process of writing and changing things. Look at how Silver Lining eventually became 11' O clock Tick Tock, or Saturday Night became FIRE. Beautiful Day is NOT a dumbed down song. It is one of the best songs they have ever recorded.

And U2 always change their approach to making albums. I don't know what gave you that idea that its been the same all these years.

They have NEVER changed their approach in the sense that they want to write and create the best music possible while at the same time selling it to as many people as possible. That has never changed from day one.

And the difference between the U2 of old and new, is that in the past U2 wanted to be remembered around the globe for amazing music, whereas now U2 want to be remembered around the globe for that top ten hit single.

Definitely no evidence of that. The music they write today is less radio friendly than the music they wrote in the 1990s or 1980s based on the reception they the songs received at radio.

POP was a more radio friendly album than anything U2 has recorded this decade. 3 of of the songs on that album cracked the HOT 100 airplay chart. In this decade, only two made it onto that chart from ATYCLB, one from HTDAAB, and none from NLOTH.

The last time U2 recieved top 10 national radio airplay in the United States was for Achtung Baby. With Or Without You, ISHFWILF, Desire, Mysterious Ways, and One are the only U2 songs that have recieved top 10 radio airplay in the United States.


So, there is definitely no evidence that the band wants to be remembered more for top 10 hits over the past few years rather than great music. If anything, based on the results, its the opposite.

 

[nielsgov]

But in the 80's and 90's there wasn't so much crap on the radio and people still listened to good music.

 

[djerdap]

Bono does hype, but consider the band is planning to record in the tour break after the US leg ends. Consider they still want SOA out soon (for U2 standards). Consider Eno allegedly already listened to the songs. Consider they have a clear idea on SOA and the first single (in the spring if Bono has his way), Every breaking wave. Of course it's possible they will go back and re-do it all but there's not anything in the quotes so far to suggest 2010 is not happening. It also looks like the Rick Rubin album will be the more straightforward, guitar album. SOA will be to NLOTH what Zooropa was to AB.

The most ridiculous thing about "punk rock on Venus" was the fans applying a comment on a 2003 record to the finished 2004 album.

Fair enough, but there isn't anything substantial in the quotes, outside of Bono's usual ramblings, that 2010 is happening. It's all talk - as soon as they get into the studio, if certain feedback comes along that the sessions are going great, then I'll start to believe they are in a creative Achtung Baby/Zooropa mode. But... if there is no information whatsoever for some time after the American leg ends... You can prepare yourselves for another disappointment.

The 2003 Chris Thomas sessions were a bit heavier than what came out in the end, but that was far from "punk rock on Venus" as well. Oh, and Vertigo in its early form was "mother of rock and roll tracks". To put this on fans is a bit unfair, isn't it? The man himself has all but admitted that he can go over-the-top as possible sometimes.

 

[gweeps]

I just hope Kingdom of Your Love makes SOA. As the first track, of course.

 

[lazarus]

Interestingly it sounds like SOA is a really left field album if "even on that" they have to work extra to try and get on the radio.

This is a well-observed point that's been missed. Saying that implies that he still expects SOA to be experimental (or more atmospheric) in nature, so we can be optimistic and not expect it to be corrupted too much.

However, while there's only 2 (or 3, depending on your taste) songs on the current album that "don't fit", unfortunately they're in the middle where it's most noticeable and distracting, very much disrupting the flow. We have to hope that is SOA does have a couple bones thrown to the pop kids, they are placed somewhere that isn't as jarring, like right at the front of the album, or buried deeper in "side two".

Another possibility is that the radio stuff will stick out so much, they'll just throw in the towel and release it in a purer state, saving the singles for something else. If the band was really ballsy they'd go back to the old Beatles model and release a stand-alone single that's not on the upcoming album, just to get people listening again.

 

[ozeeko]

I don't think the band is overly selfconscious about having a hit single. The band always go through a lengthy process of writing and changing things. Look at how Silver Lining eventually became 11' O clock Tick Tock, or Saturday Night became FIRE. Beautiful Day is NOT a dumbed down song. It is one of the best songs they have ever recorded.



They have NEVER changed their approach in the sense that they want to write and create the best music possible while at the same time selling it to as many people as possible. That has never changed from day one.



Definitely no evidence of that. The music they write today is less radio friendly than the music they wrote in the 1990s or 1980s based on the reception they the songs received at radio.

POP was a more radio friendly album than anything U2 has recorded this decade. 3 of of the songs on that album cracked the HOT 100 airplay chart. In this decade, only two made it onto that chart from ATYCLB, one from HTDAAB, and none from NLOTH.

The last time U2 recieved top 10 national radio airplay in the United States was for Achtung Baby. With Or Without You, ISHFWILF, Desire, Mysterious Ways, and One are the only U2 songs that have recieved top 10 radio airplay in the United States.


So, there is definitely no evidence that the band wants to be remembered more for top 10 hits over the past few years rather than great music. If anything, based on the results, its the opposite.

I'm not trying to provide evidence, these are all opinions based on my observations about the band and their evolution of sound throughout their history.

Firstly, i didn't say Beautiful Day was a dumbed down song. I think its a pop masterpiece and will go down as the song they're remembered most for this decade. I just think they're "chasing the dragon" so to speak, trying to recapture that "high" when Beautiful Day put them back on top, and while there's nothing wrong with obviously trying to top yourself musically, i think (remember me here thinking) that they're still trying to top Beautiful Day for all the wrong reasons. It seems they want a song that's going to be more universal, more optimistic, more anthemic, another stadium song and a vehicle for Bono to run through the audience and get down on his knees and seem Christlike in the way he comforts the world and puts a giant band-aid around it, healing us all temporarily in the midst of darkness. (love run on sentences). So, while what i just wrote may seem ridiculous to you, perhaps insane, it's just the impression i get from them these days. That they're more into the superficial benefits of a hit single than the actual music contained in that single. And that they're still to this day trying to get a single to top Beautiful Day, and i got news for you, they haven't. Magnificent comes the closest, and i think it's a better song, but in the end it wasn't recorded correctly. It could've soared, transcended, but the final result for me was just merely good.

I think its safe to say every band goes into the studio trying to make the best album they can. I don't think anyone goes in and says, "lets make shitty music."

I don't see how their music today is less radio friendly. Their latest singles sound specifically designed for radio (to a fault). If by "less radio friendly" do you mean the radio isn't embracing them as much as they used to? Cuz i can't say i disagree there.

I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For, a gospel song, topped the charts during the synthpop and hairmetal 80's. Radio friendly? I think not. Was it a hit? Fuckin-A. Were they trying that hard? Maybe, but you know what, it didn't sound like they were. That's another thing about them today. It sounds to me like they're always trying, trying REAL REAL hard to make the music memorable, while one of their signature songs ISHFWILF sounds effortless, like it was recorded in 5 minutes and written in maybe less than that. That's magic, folks.

 

[U2girl]

Fair enough, but there isn't anything substantial in the quotes, outside of Bono's usual ramblings, that 2010 is happening. It's all talk - as soon as they get into the studio, if certain feedback comes along that the sessions are going great, then I'll start to believe they are in a creative Achtung Baby/Zooropa mode. But... if there is no information whatsoever for some time after the American leg ends... You can prepare yourselves for another disappointment.

The 2003 Chris Thomas sessions were a bit heavier than what came out in the end, but that was far from "punk rock on Venus" as well. Oh, and Vertigo in its early form was "mother of rock and roll tracks". To put this on fans is a bit unfair, isn't it? The man himself has all but admitted that he can go over-the-top as possible sometimes.

Agreed. If we don't get more concrete info after the American leg ends, say, until New Year's/January, we can get worried.

The Thomas sessions that we heard. Maybe the rest of that prompted that comment. But still, it had nothing to do with 2004 Bomb. Actually I think Full metal jacket was "mother of all rock songs", mixed with Native Son it became Vertigo.

 

[nielsgov]

I'm starting to believe they're gonna do the Rubin-sessions first because they want another "big" album after the dissapointing sales of NLOTH. They all seem pretty excited about those sessions too. But if it's a second Bomb then that would be stupid. But maybe they can make the album that Bomb was supposed to be.

I think they're scared of making 2 albums that don't get received wel in a row because if SOA is like the descriptions it won't sell more than NLOTH, probably even less.

I hope I'm wrong but after reading the comments about singles...

 

[U2girl]

This is a well-observed point that's been missed. Saying that implies that he still expects SOA to be experimental (or more atmospheric) in nature, so we can be optimistic and not expect it to be corrupted too much.

However, while there's only 2 (or 3, depending on your taste) songs on the current album that "don't fit", unfortunately they're in the middle where it's most noticeable and distracting, very much disrupting the flow. We have to hope that is SOA does have a couple bones thrown to the pop kids, they are placed somewhere that isn't as jarring, like right at the front of the album, or buried deeper in "side two".

Another possibility is that the radio stuff will stick out so much, they'll just throw in the towel and release it in a purer state, saving the singles for something else. If the band was really ballsy they'd go back to the old Beatles model and release a stand-alone single that's not on the upcoming album, just to get people listening again.

Interestingly Lanois hasn't been mentioned so far. The article says Eno listened to the songs. I guess they tend to work with both of them but maybe if this is meant as a kind of "Zooropa part II", only Eno will work with them ?

To me, it's like having a record in 3 acts and the middle third provides a natural break. Though it does stick out.

My personal hope is that they stick with this idea/concept for SOA (it's the one thing missing since Zooropa on their albums) and the more direct guitar/rock stuff gets relegated to the Rick Rubin and/or Spiderman material. I like the stand alone single idea too. Or maybe shove all the radio songs on an EP and get it out of the way.

 

[The John Tree]

With regard to "pop" songs on SoA, I'm fine with it. But there are two types of U2 "pop" songs:

Stuff like Streets, Mysterious Ways, etc. which is poppy and nice to listen to while still maintaining an artistic integrity and, more importantly, some "edge" (not The Edge, but some sense of grit)

And then there's stuff like Window In The Skies, which sounds just cookie-cutter and bland.

If they're talking poppy in the former way, then I'm fine with it.

Also, Bono is never the best salesman for the group's product, even though he is "from a long line on his mother's side." He's never quite good at nailing down a good song description, so I'm honestly curious what Bono's version of "poppy" sounds like.

Overall, it sounds like the project is still on pace to be the moodier, reflective side of NLOTH, which I'm cool with. Of course there's going to be a few uptempo songs, and there should be. An album of back to back ballads would be difficult to listen to in one sitting.

My only concern is this talk of bringing the Rubin sessions back into the equation. Songs with Rubin were only written by U2 and feature a much different "sound" than the best tunes of NLOTH. For example, "Stand Up" was written by just U2 while something like "Unknown Caller" was written by U2 with Eno and Lanois.

Now, if the band want to release the Rubin stuff (though judging from the two tracks i've already heard with Rubin, I wish they wouldn't), that's fine, but they should release them as a separate project. Finish SoA with what you have from the NLOTH sessions and then use the Rubin sessions as the starting point to your *next* project, but for God's sake don't mix them. Because the one thing an album needs is consistency: in theme, in sound.

And, personally, I'm all for a cast recording of the Spider-Man stuff, as opposed to U2. Why make Adam and Larry play something they had nothing to do with?

 

[Irvine511]

But they should release something that isn't rewritten 15 times and dumbed down with the lyrics changed and a more obvious melody.

i respect your opinion, but can you give me an example of this?

 

[ozeeko]

i respect your opinion, but can you give me an example of this?

Vertigo

 

[dan_smee]

Vertigo

Vertigo was rewritten once, has a different melody, but in no way more obvious (possibly even less obvious) and re being dumbed down, the subject matter is different, and disguised slightly by simplicity, but that actually makes you think about the meaning, Native Son is as subtle as a brick in the face. Dumbing down means that the listener is told what to think, not that the subject matter is slightly less preachy

 

[lazarus]

Native Son is a good idea that really didn't work in execution, and as said above, is far too blunt. And this is coming from someone very sympathetic to Leonard Peltier's plight.

People who like to champion that recording over Vertigo are deranged.

 

[BVS]

I like ozeeko's active imagination...

 

[powerhour24]

How about SUC? It may not have had THAT many lyric changes, but we've heard that it changed many times.

Also, Vertigo is of course the better SINGLE, Native Son is the better lyric for connecting with the listener and having some meaning behind it besides a rocker about temptation, and as with much of the Bomb, the earlier fits the unpolished U2 guitar rock idea better.

Fast Cars
Native Son
Miracle Drug
Sometimes
Love/Peace
COBL
ABOY (alternate)
Smile
Crumbs
Mercy
OOTS
Yahweh

Some combination like that, and you'd have a kickass stripped down U2 album.

 

[Niceman]

How about SUC? It may not have had THAT many lyric changes, but we've heard that it changed many times.

Also, Vertigo is of course the better SINGLE, Native Son is the better lyric for connecting with the listener and having some meaning behind it besides a rocker about temptation, and as with much of the Bomb, the earlier fits the unpolished U2 guitar rock idea better.

Fast Cars
Native Son
Miracle Drug
Sometimes
Love/Peace
COBL
ABOY (alternate)
Smile
Crumbs
Mercy
OOTS
Yahweh

Some combination like that, and you'd have a kickass stripped down U2 album.

Personally? I'd hate that... I think Native Son was crap; both as a pop song and even more as a lyric - Talk about dull and obvious and preachy! I can't stand Smile, and I'm not a fan of any of the alternate takes off of HTDAAB (well, Yahweh is interesting at least...)

 

[powerhour24]

I'm starting to believe they're gonna do the Rubin-sessions first because they want another "big" album after the dissapointing sales of NLOTH. They all seem pretty excited about those sessions too. But if it's a second Bomb then that would be stupid. But maybe they can make the album that Bomb was supposed to be.

I think they're scared of making 2 albums that don't get received wel in a row because if SOA is like the descriptions it won't sell more than NLOTH, probably even less.

I hope I'm wrong but after reading the comments about singles...

I don't think so, given that SOA is a coalesced idea, and been mentioned as not only stemming from the same sessions, but truly being a companion project to NLOTH, it would make no sense to throw away that much and release it later. It would make sense to do the companion to this year's album and have it become part of the live promotion tour (after all the tour's name leaves it open to be promoting more than one album by not referring to NLOTH).

If you think that doesn't sell you the mainstream well enough (after banking like $750m without a substantial 'hit'), then you can release a whole album of the more melodic, simple rock songs like those worked on with Rubin. But I really doubt there's all that much from those sessions that was more than conceptual that's leftover. After all, part of that was WITS and Saints, and we know some of it became part of Spider-Man.

 

[powerhour24]

Personally? I'd hate that... I think Native Son was crap; both as a pop song and even more as a lyric - Talk about dull and obvious and preachy! I can't stand Smile, and I'm not a fan of any of the alternate takes off of HTDAAB (well, Yahweh is interesting at least...)

Really, you'd take the album cut of ABOY over the alternate?

 

[Niceman]

Really, you'd take the album cut of ABOY over the alternate?

Absolutely!!!

 

[thewrathofsam]

Fast Cars
Native Son
Miracle Drug
Sometimes
Love/Peace
COBL
ABOY (alternate)
Smile
Crumbs
Mercy
OOTS
Yahweh

Some combination like that, and you'd have a kickass stripped down U2 album.

I don't see "Miracle Drug" as stripped down U2 AT ALL. I can't stand those duct sounds in the beginning of the song. Makes it sound like a scene out of the movie "Brazil" with Tuttle fixing Lowry's A/C.

 

[Rich79]

With regard to "pop" songs on SoA, I'm fine with it. But there are two types of U2 "pop" songs:

Stuff like Streets, Mysterious Ways, etc. which is poppy and nice to listen to while still maintaining an artistic integrity and, more importantly, some "edge" (not The Edge, but some sense of grit)

And then there's stuff like Window In The Skies, which sounds just cookie-cutter and bland.

If they're talking poppy in the former way, then I'm fine with it.

Agreed. I think lately the band overthink the pop song idea and come up with these typical, "we could write these songs in our sleep" type of things. It's way too important to them to have songs that put them on top anymore. I always feel that NLOTH's biggest flaw is that they couldn't resist trying to squeeze some more poppy sound into some of the songs or even just throw in more pop-song style material on a record that started out with the idea of experimentation. Crazy Tonight might as well be another Crumbs from Your Table, as well as Stand Up Comedy; and Get On Your Boots feels like "hey, we had a big hit with Vertigo. Let's repackage that and maybe people will eat it up again."

It's like they can never truly experiment with the music again because they won't go out of their safety zone. Cookie-cutter songs is right. Enough of the "Human spirit will overcome; you can be whatever you want to be when you grow up; don't let the world upset you" attitude. And enough of the Edge using the same basic guitar sound he has for the past 10 years. I get it already!

Sorry, U2 is still better than most music out there, but for some reason I just get this vibe that they're trying to "force it" when it comes to success. They've never needed to before. So your album doesn't sell as well as the one before it. So what. Don't get discouraged and try to put even more cheery, tired pop anthem/ballads out. I've mentally checked out when it comes to that side of U2. Have the balls to truly do something crazy and stop worrying so much about fan reaction and charts.

Okay, venting over.

 

[The John Tree]

And the perfect example of disregard for "hit singles" is Springsteen, who is a major concert draw and still majorly relevant despite the fact that "Working On A Dream" didn't have a hit single on it. And, despite it's lack of a single, WOAD got great reviews and was accepted as a great album by the music community and Bruce's general fanbase.

I don't get why bands don't get that hardly ANYONE is selling records anymore. Is it ego? Do they think they can beat the internet? Don't feel bad if NLOTH didn't sell as many copies as you thought, because I guarantee that even if it didn't sell 4 million in the USA, 4 million people still own it, whether it's legal or not.

 

[ozeeko]

Vertigo was rewritten once, has a different melody, but in no way more obvious (possibly even less obvious) and re being dumbed down, the subject matter is different, and disguised slightly by simplicity, but that actually makes you think about the meaning, Native Son is as subtle as a brick in the face. Dumbing down means that the listener is told what to think, not that the subject matter is slightly less preachy

Vertigo sounds clunky, like it was overworked many times. Native Son isn't that much better of a song, but i think it works as a mid-album rocker song, not necessarily as a hit. Since Bono was promising a punk rock album from venus or whatever, i guess they felt they needed to somewhat deliver, so native son was reworked into the song you hear today, with (obviously in my opinion for the opinion police out there on this forum) a very clumsy sounding, forced wanna be rockist attitude that ultimately fails. Did i say Native Son would've brought the house down? No, I'm just saying that was one instance of a band taking a song that seemed decent and honest and sincere on its own terms and morphed it into something that could get them closer to chart success.

 

[ozeeko]

And one more thing, while Native Son might be a tad preachy, i'll take that over Vertigo's ridiculous, silly, embarrassing lyrics, with such amazing lines as "they twinkle as the boys play rock and roll" - What a lame, wimpy sounding lyric.

 

[ozeeko]

I like ozeeko's active imagination...

Do you ever take a break? Does an alarm go off in your house everytime someone makes a subjective post? Take a day off, man! You're so predictable. Do I seek you out and lecture you on your opinions of U2's music? I don't think I have ever approached you once on here.

 

[mikal]

anyone else not digging SOA so far? i think it just sounds so poppy.