Heavy Handed Moderating

[Partyslammer]

I dunno if this is the place to mention this or if it's being discussed in another thread but I have to add that the moderating, especially by "Sicy" has become really oppressive in the last month or so. Her behavior especially in the thread(s) in regard to long time member "Axver" has been childish to say the least and on just about any of the dozens of other mailing lists and forums I'm on or run, that kind of person would lose their Moderator privileges right away for carrying on in such a fashion.

And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I've been here long enough and read enough "Axver''s" posts over the last year+ to know that while he's an opinionated douche (especially in his recent comments regarding the tour being postponed), he's still far from a troll. It just seems that because he regularly makes unpopular comments that irked some people, he's become an easy target. Also, in many cases, he and a few others like him that have been banned are goaded into arguments that devolve into pathetic flame wars. The simplest solution in most of these cases is to simply lock the thread after a warning or two.

That said, I think this forum needs to solicit for some new mods every so often not only to bring in some new perspectives but to limit what looks like power tripping by some mods in a few cases.

I also think that people who are offended by comments that are "offensive" should get a grip and realize not everyone shares the same feelings and opinions. Nobody is forcing anyone to reply to a comment, much less should anyone take any comment personally.

Frankly, the Interference forums are moving closer and closer to a very close-minded, overly sensitive bunch that borders on fascism. It's almost amusing that the official U2 site has a far more liberal and open minded policy toward varying opinions.

T.B.

 

[Miroslava]

So in your opinion just padlocking the hell out of any thread that receives an unheeded warning or two is not consired heavy moderating?

 

[Chizip]

While not making a comment on the overall message of the original post, one thing I do sort of agree with is maybe sometimes people on this board are a little over sensitive.

So anytime someone says something that's even a little offensive it gets reported to the mods, and then the mods have to try to do something or they will be accused of not doing their job. And that can cause a bit of "overmoderating."

I just think maybe Interference members as a whole could be better about solving problems amongst themselves as opposed to running to "mommy" (Sicy and the rest of the mods) anytime someone posts something you might not agree with.

 

[phanan]

Funny, but I think it's the opposite. Sure, there are those that are over sensitive about things, but really, Sicy gives people here more than a fair chance, (I'm sure there are some who probably think she's too lenient at times).

With regards to the certain long time member mentioned, it's not about being a troll, or just being opinionated, but that a lot of his posts are just plain rude. He's probably received more warnings over the past several months than anyone. And he isn't "goaded" into these situations - he pretty much initiates them. That's why he's temporarily banned from that forum, and frankly, he should consider himself lucky that's all he got.

Consider what the mods have to deal with here. Put yourself in their shoes. We have quite the mix of people on this forum - I think they do as good a job as possible. I certainly don't envy them...

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

Frankly, the Interference forums are moving closer and closer to a very close-minded, overly sensitive bunch that borders on fascism. It's almost amusing that the official U2 site has a far more liberal and open minded policy toward varying opinions.

T.B.

Well, I suggest if you believe this then maybe it's time for you to leave.

And to go along with what Chip said, if you have a problem with a person why not take it up with them instead of posting here?

 

[redkat]

That said, I think this forum needs to solicit for some new mods every so often not only to bring in some new perspectives but to limit what looks like power tripping by some mods in a few cases.

I don't think there is a line of people wanting these volunteer positions. Particularly Sicy's job.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

There's a reason for that PM box.... If members have issues that go beyond what is discussed on the forum they can take it up with each other via PM. Starting threads singling out members/mods/whatever, can only hurt things.

As for Sicy and the other mods here, it's strictly volunteer work and 95% of the time (and that's being generous) it's a thankless job. You can't make all people happy all of the time, but they do the best they can, given the circumstances.

 

[Elvis]

Sicy's the best admin/mod this forum's ever seen... and that would hold true for most other forums too.

Being a mod is an incredibly stressful and relatively thankless task.

Trying to keep people in-line is hardly 'oppressive'.

Sheesh.

 

[Bonochick]

I dunno if this is the place to mention this or if it's being discussed in another thread but I have to add that the moderating, especially by "Sicy" has become really oppressive in the last month or so.

I'm sorry that you feel that way. The moderators as a whole try to do whatever we can to try to keep Interference running as smoothly and as an enjoyable and civil as possible.

Her behavior especially in the thread(s) in regard to long time member "Axver" has been childish to say the least and on just about any of the dozens of other mailing lists and forums I'm on or run, that kind of person would lose their Moderator privileges right away for carrying on in such a fashion.

It is unfair that you are singling out Sicy for what happened. The action of suspensions and bannings are carried out by Sicy and Elvis because they have administrative control, but such decisions are made through discussion by the mods in the non-public forum for the mods. It's not as if Sicy wakes up in the morning and says, "I think I'm gonna go ban [insert member name here] today."

And before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I've been here long enough and read enough "Axver''s" posts over the last year+ to know that while he's an opinionated douche (especially in his recent comments regarding the tour being postponed), he's still far from a troll.

Calling Axver a "douche" is a personal attack, and that is not allowed here. Please refrain from such name-calling.

I don't consider Axver to be a troll, but he has been warned for the content of some of his posts, and those warnings seem to have been ignored.

It just seems that because he regularly makes unpopular comments that irked some people, he's become an easy target.

There's a difference between "unpopular comments" and being rude and not listening to the warnings given by mods. He wasn't an "easy target"...he was breaking the rules.

Also, in many cases, he and a few others like him that have been banned are goaded into arguments that devolve into pathetic flame wars.

Saying that people get "goaded into arguments" is no excuse. You don't have to let what other people say cause you to lash out and break the rules as well. Somebody could post that, "Bonochick is an ugly bitch", but that gives me no right to, for example, reply to say that that person is a douche.

The simplest solution in most of these cases is to simply lock the thread after a warning or two.

If we did that, then people would be up in arms about the lock-happy mods. Besides, it's a shame to kill a discussion just because of a couple bad apples. That's why I try to refrain from closing a thread with actual discussion going on just because of a couple people breaking rules.

That said, I think this forum needs to solicit for some new mods every so often not only to bring in some new perspectives but to limit what looks like power tripping by some mods in a few cases.

What feel "looks like power tripping" is simply us trying to do our jobs. I wouldn't be opposed to additional mods, but I think there's nothing wrong with the team we have right now.

I also think that people who are offended by comments that are "offensive" should get a grip and realize not everyone shares the same feelings and opinions.

To me, it's not a matter of offending members...it's a matter of members being treated with respect.

Nobody is forcing anyone to reply to a comment, much less should anyone take any comment personally.

I will agree with you on that. Nobody has to reply to anything...nobody even has to be here. However, if somebody is being rude and breaking the rules, a moderator needs to take care of it, so it's good for posts like that to be reported.[/B][/QUOTE]

Frankly, the Interference forums are moving closer and closer to a very close-minded, overly sensitive bunch that borders on fascism.

I think people here are very open-minded, actually. As for being "overly sensitive"...like I said before...it's a matter of respect.[/B[/QUOTE]

It's almost amusing that the official U2 site has a far more liberal and open minded policy toward varying opinions.

While I don't want to chase anybody away, if you truly are unhappy with Interference and feel that the official site is more to your liking...you could always just go there. I hope you at least understand where I am coming from.[/B][/QUOTE]

T.B.

BC

 

[BAW]

This is really shitty. You could have taken any of these concerns directly to Elvis or to Sicy herself but calling her out in public is just inviting people to pile it on.

And like redkat said, there won't be a long line of volunteers waiting to be mods, unless your idea of fun is a thankless job where you are always the bad guy.

 

[Mr. BAW]

Quote - "It's almost amusing that the official U2 site has a far more liberal and open minded policy toward varying opinions."




Then we know where we can find you, goodbye.

Sicy is the BEST moderator, followed by many others of her caliber, on any board of which I've ever been connected...you're talking out your ass with your comments.

 

[Bonochick]

you're talking out your ass with your comments.

I don't agree with his post either, but...be nice! You don't want me to lay the BC hurt on you, do ya?

 

[Partyslammer]

Re: Re: Heavy Handed Moderating

Well, I suggest if you believe this then maybe it's time for you to leave.

I don't think so.

And to go along with what Chip said, if you have a problem with a person why not take it up with them instead of posting here?

Did I say that I had a "problem" with any one particular individual? I used the Sicy/Axver recent issues as an example, that's all.

T.B.

 

[Sicy]

You know, you could have emailed me or Elvis, the board owner with you concerns. I find it very disrespectful that you take one incident and publicly crucify me for it.

The mods here are very diplomatic and as patient as they possibly can be with people here. When you address someone over and over and over again for their problematic posts and they completely ignore you and continue to carry on what do YOU suggest we do? We are also human beings not robots and finally get to a point where we are so frustrated and stressed out we can lose our cool. This does not happen very often and if you were around enough and payed enough attention you'd see this. The mods and I have have posted warnings over and over and over again in the threads that you are referring to and yet they are completely ignored. Did I say Axver was a troll? Never. But he is a problem. And when we have to hear complaints about how rude he is to others on a daily basis there comes a point where we cannot continue to just 'warn' him because obviously its doing no good.

It's really very simple. We have rules here, you agreed to them when you registered, whether you remember or not. The rules need to be followed and when they are broken you have to take responsibility for your actions and suffer the consequences.

I feel I am more than fair with the members here and its very rare that I or the mods get a 'thank you for everything you do here' no, we just get bitched at for doing our job.

 

[U2Man]

So anytime someone says something that's even a little offensive it gets reported to the mods, and then the mods have to try to do something or they will be accused of not doing their job. And that can cause a bit of "overmoderating."

Yes, but the thing is that some people (and I'm not thinking of anyone in particular here) are deliberately trying to get a rise out of other people by insulting them here and there (and very often it's targeted at people that they for some reason dislike), the other person feels obliged to respond and then a regular fight breaks out (exactly what the former person wanted).

I think the mods in general are doing a pretty good job, but if I was to make a suggestion I would say that a little more analysis perhaps could be done - to reveal and catch the persons that are deliberately trying to offend other members all the time.

 

[Miroslava]

And some people around here deliberately try to turn everything into a joke or deliberately undermine our polite requests for action and then act surprised when we lose our cool.

 

[daygloeyes2]

Compared to some other message boards I've posted on, the mods do a damn good job here.

 

[Sicy]

Yes, but the thing is that some people (and I'm not thinking of anyone in particular here) are deliberately trying to get a rise out of other people by insulting them here and there (and very often it's targeted at people that they for some reason dislike), the other person feels obliged to respond and then a regular fight breaks out (exactly what the former person wanted).

I think the mods in general are doing a pretty good job, but if I was to make a suggestion I would say that a little more analysis perhaps could be done - to reveal and catch the persons that are deliberately trying to offend other members all the time.

You need to check your email.

You do not help matters around here, at all.

 

[Chizip]

Yes, but the thing is that some people (and I'm not thinking of anyone in particular here) are deliberately trying to get a rise out of other people by insulting them here and there (and very often it's targeted at people that they for some reason dislike), the other person feels obliged to respond and then a regular fight breaks out (exactly what the former person wanted).

If you think someone is deliberately trying to pick a fight with you then ignore them, and they won't do it anymore. If you react then you're just giving them what they wanted and they'll keep doing it.

I hope no one interpreted my earlier post as a slam againt the mods, it was jus the opposite. They've got so much shit on their plate that I can understand how they could easily get frustrated.

That's why I'm challenging people of the forum to grow a little thicker skin and either ignore a comment you dont like or to try to settle the issue with the person outside the forum before running to a mod.

We are mostly all adults here, the moderators shouldn't have to be babysitters that need to solve every little petty dispute.

 

[Partyslammer]

Quote - "It's almost amusing that the official U2 site has a far more liberal and open minded policy toward varying opinions."


Then we know where we can find you, goodbye.

Sicy is the BEST moderator, followed by many others of her caliber, on any board of which I've ever been connected...you're talking out your ass with your comments.

You have your opinion and I have mine. Nice to hear you are being so civil about voicing yours.

Again I'll reiterate, I wasn't singling out Sicy with any sort of malice except as the most recent and easily most identifiable example of what I see on this board. If you can't understand that, it isn't my problem to enlighten you beyond this reply. Furthermore, I see no reason to "take this private" as it's obvious that this is an issue that should be openly discussed, if it's allowed, anyway.

I find it funny that some people's replies echo yours along the lines of "if you don't like it, leave." I wasn't aware that there would be such a feeling of insecurity and outright hostility when an unpopular opinion is voiced.

I'll also address a few other valid comments made in this thread:

I do understand and appreciate and have grown to somewhat agree with some comments regarding locking threads. I see it as a useful option when a thread spirals out of control and drones on and on into 30+ pages of endlessly repeated info, comments and bickering. It does work on a couple other lists I'm subbed to though.

One other topic I'll address is that of the work of the mods themselves. I fully understand and appreciate the work that it takes to handle a high traffic forum such as this, I do so myself on several other mailing lists. However, it *is* voluntary. No one is twisting anyone's arm to do it. IMO, the owner of this site *should* rotate mods in and out of various forums and responsibilities from time to time. Why should any moderator object to this unless they derived something more than just the satisfaction of helping maintain the site which should be the *only* goal regardless of their duties.

I've pretty much said all I have on my mind regarding this topic so I won't clutter up this thread any further with my replies unless someone brings up a point I haven't touched upon here so far.

Obviously, I've upset some people. As I said previously, if you disagree, that's your prerogative, but try to keep it civil.

BTW, I'm not going anywhere.

T.B.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

the mods on this forum have always been more than fair. have people done worse than axver and not been banned? i'm sure... but when you're directly warned and you baisicly tell the person who warned you to F off, what exactly do you expect?

 

[Miroslava]

IMO, the owner of this site *should* rotate mods in and out of various forums and responsibilities from time to time. Why should any moderator object to this unless they derived something more than just the satisfaction of helping maintain the site which should be the *only* goal regardless of their duties.

Here's why I would object to something like that. I personally have absolutely zero interest OR the knowledge to moderate forums like Free Your Mind or The Goal is Soul. I believe my strengths are better suited for the forums I am currently mod-ed for.

And yes, I do agree that no one is twisting our arms to do this. Which is why we're free to quit at any time. And with every day that passes, that looks like a very good decision. But again, BECAUSE this is something that is voluntary AND for fun, it is incredible to me that people give us such crap sometimes.

 

[Partyslammer]

You know, you could have emailed me or Elvis, the board owner with you concerns. I find it very disrespectful that you take one incident and publicly crucify me for it.

The mods here are very diplomatic and as patient as they possibly can be with people here. When you address someone over and over and over again for their problematic posts and they completely ignore you and continue to carry on what do YOU suggest we do? We are also human beings not robots and finally get to a point where we are so frustrated and stressed out we can lose our cool. This does not happen very often and if you were around enough and payed enough attention you'd see this. The mods and I have have posted warnings over and over and over again in the threads that you are referring to and yet they are completely ignored. Did I say Axver was a troll? Never. But he is a problem. And when we have to hear complaints about how rude he is to others on a daily basis there comes a point where we cannot continue to just 'warn' him because obviously its doing no good.

It's really very simple. We have rules here, you agreed to them when you registered, whether you remember or not. The rules need to be followed and when they are broken you have to take responsibility for your actions and suffer the consequences.

I feel I am more than fair with the members here and its very rare that I or the mods get a 'thank you for everything you do here' no, we just get bitched at for doing our job.

Please. You have plenty of people in this very thread heaping praise upon you for doing your job to their satisfaction. If you feel that you're not getting enough "thank you's" at this point, perhaps you should reevaluate why you're doing this job.

As for suggestions about improvements, I've made them in my previous posts in this thread.

You seem to like using the "if you were around enough and payed(sic) enough attention you'd see this." comment when it comes to explaining your actions, perhaps you should check my stats and maybe you'd realize *I have been here long enough* and I have kept up with this site to "pay attention" to what's going on.

I'm sorry you feel slighted. However, I'm not going to apologize for voicing my opinion.

T.B.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

We are mostly all adults here, the moderators shouldn't have to be babysitters that need to solve every little petty dispute.

Well the fact is that many people here who are adults don't behave like adults. I'm not the only one who thinks that- several people here do, including some moderators. Different people have different levels of sensitivity, it's really not your place imho to tell them to get a thicker skin. The people who need "babysitters" are the instigators of the crap, not the targets of it. There are still humans behind the anonymity and you can only push a person so far before they can't or don't want to take it anymore. Some people can take it, others can't. And the fact is that there seem to be people here who are here to f w/ others, play head games, take our their frustrations that they can't take out in "real life", whatever you want to call it.

Funny but from what I see some people here get away with quite a bit, of course I'm not privy to what goes on in private and I'm not questioning that, just saying that exists as opposed to "heavy handedness". I think Sicy does a good job and is not being "heavy handed" in many instances, people really seem to be given several chances before she does what she has to do. I wouldn't want to have to deal with what she has to deal with, especially given the way so many people here behave.

 

[Chizip]

I'm just saying that maybe there could be a little more personal responsibility around here. If someone has a problem with me or something I posted I'd rather have them contact me directly rather than go through Sicy first. Chances are there was just a misunderstanding that we could work out much easier if we communicated directly rather than going through a third party who doesn't know the whole situation.

I think the only time the "report this post" feature should ever be used is when someone has come soley to advertise their website or product, or someone who is a blatant troll that only showed up to bash U2. Just to alert the mods to take care of the situation quickly.

If someone posted something that may have hurt your feelings, I think going to Sicy so she can reprimand the person is a little childish. If someone calls me a douchebag I'm not going to click on the "report this post" button and cry to Sicy. I'm going to send the person a PM and ask them what the deal is and try to work things out. Of course, if you talk to the person first and things still can't get worked out, then yes, going to Sicy would be an appropriate action.

So like I said, I would like to see more personal responsibility around here and less hand holding. There is a lot of drama, petty arguments, and other crap around this place that gets dumped in the mods lap that doesn't need to be if people could act like mature adults.

 

[Partyslammer]

I'm just saying that maybe there could be a little more personal responsibility around here. If someone has a problem with me or something I posted I'd rather have them contact me directly rather than go through Sicy first. Chances are there was just a misunderstanding that we could work out much easier if we communicated directly rather than going through a third party who doesn't know the whole situation.

I think the only time the "report this post" feature should ever be used is when someone has come soley to advertise their website or product, or someone who is a blatant troll that only showed up to bash U2. Just to alert the mods to take care of the situation quickly.

If someone posted something that may have hurt your feelings, I think going to Sicy so she can reprimand the person is a little childish. If you talk to the person first and things still can't get worked out, then yes, going to Sicy would be an appropriate action.

So like I said, I would like to see more personal responsibility around here and less hand holding. The mods could use the break.

Excellent points. Frankly, I don't think "getting one's feelings hurt" or any kind of objectionable comment up to obvious threats or combative behavior is a reason for someone to be banned or even reprimanded. I think some people here at least appear to walk on eggshells when it comes to posting for fear of pushing some sort of envelope that might get them "reported."

T.B.

 

[U2SavesTheWorld]

Why does there seem to be so much confusion about axver? Am I wrong or was he not just temporarily suspended from the tour forum and NOT banned?

Doesn't seem that dramatic to me.

But, most of the things people here seem to completely spaz out about don't seem that dramatic to me.

 

[Miroslava]

I think some people here at least appear to walk on eggshells when it comes to posting for fear of pushing some sort of envelope that might get them "reported."

T.B.

Pardon me while I have a very serious belly laugh.

I know I edit myself quite a bit, as I am sure others do, but I believe that is the minority and not the majority. Some people could certainly benefit from thinking before posting or walking on eggshells every once in a while.

 

[Catlady]

and

to all the mods. You guys do a great job.

 

[Sicy]

Why does there seem to be so much confusion about axver? Am I wrong or was he not just temporarily suspended from the tour forum and NOT banned?

Doesn't seem that dramatic to me.

But, most of the things people here seem to completely spaz out about don't seem that dramatic to me.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.