Vlad n U 2
Blue Crack Addict
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2008
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See you in 6 months.
You know one last thing about this post. I would have loved to have a day off to protest something but unfortunately I had to go to work.... these protesters who I'll go out on a limb and say most AREN'T gainfully employed needs to ne taken care from shmucks like me.... so I feel real bad as to how they were treated.
That kind of dismissive attitude is exactly what is wrong with this country. You simply don't care what happens to those marchers, nor do you care what happened to Mike Brown or Eric Garner.
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This has to stop being a black and white, right or left, either/or issue.
Most of the outspoken have it completely wrong.
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it's not about trying to rehabilitate those who commit a crime or anything, but more about seeing them like vermin who have been successfully caught by an exterminator.
What it seemed like bigjohn was doing was trying to justify the actions of the police in cases such as Eric Garner and Mike Brown, by using this recent shooting as an example of why we need over zealous policing.
Right, because there weren't ANY "provocateurs" on the other side.We already see right wing provocateurs trying to blame the shooting on the protestors that are fighting against police brutality. That's what I have a problem with.
Do you have a problem with groups (and yes I know this was not ALL of them) of protestors chanting they want dead cops NOW? You don't think there is at least some level of responsibility there for what happened?
convenience store/gas station attendants are killed every day?Oh yeah and BTW, it looks like another officer was shot and killed in Florida today. Nope, not dangerous at all........
exactly. most people who turn to crime do not do so because they want to and even if they were rich, they'd do it anyway. it's out of desperation. yes some steal just for the thrill of it or because they can, but regardless of the reason, the emphasis is in the wrong place in america. it shouldn't be about providing the harshest punishment possible, usually meaning long prison sentences (that almost never get carried out in full because of, hehe wait for it...prison overcrowding) and hefty fines. it should be about determining what drove a person to commit said felony and rehabilitating them. if a person has been a criminal their entire adolescence and young life, provide them with training to take up a trade. and for god's sake, make it possible for them to get a job after being released. a big part of the problem is that these guys get released and cannot find jobs. what good is it to dump them in a situation that's impossible to get out of? what good is it for a person to forever have to pay the consequences of a possible dumb mistake made when they were 19, that even when they're 50 they still have to check that "yes" box on job applications when asked if they're a convicted felon.That and in my experience it doesn't seem like enough people want to examine the exact conditions that may have had a substantial influence on the criminal and their actions.
exactly. most people who turn to crime do not do so because they want to and even if they were rich, they'd do it anyway. it's out of desperation. yes some steal just for the thrill of it or because they can, but regardless of the reason, the emphasis is in the wrong place in america. it shouldn't be about providing the harshest punishment possible, usually meaning long prison sentences (that almost never get carried out in full because of, hehe wait for it...prison overcrowding) and hefty fines. it should be about determining what drove a person to commit said felony and rehabilitating them. if a person has been a criminal their entire adolescence and young life, provide them with training to take up a trade. and for god's sake, make it possible for them to get a job after being released. a big part of the problem is that these guys get released and cannot find jobs. what good is it to dump them in a situation that's impossible to get out of? what good is it for a person to forever have to pay the consequences of a possible dumb mistake made when they were 19, that even when they're 50 they still have to check that "yes" box on job applications when asked if they're a convicted felon.
what about a black man suspected of robbery arrested for "resisting arrest" when he tried to ask officers why they had a gun pointed in his face and screaming at him to put his hands up?
So what are police supposed to do when they encounter someone (thats is potentially armed and dangerous) suspected of robbery? Have a back and forth dialog with the suspect, giving them the chance to either get argumentative and irate, run, and/or pull out a gun and shoot at the officers? Or do they immediately gain control of the situation by controlling the subject? Action is always better than reaction.
Or if the officers are white and the suspect is black, the officers should just let him do whatever he wants and let him control the encounter or else they are racist?
Some of you seem to base your opinions on what you see on TV and the news, and "statistics", but you really have no clue about what law enforcement is about in real world practice. But I imagine none of you have any actual law enforcement experience so i cant say I blame you.
Just like people that always say "why didn't the cops just shoot him in the leg or shoot the weapon out of his hand?" Real life isn't a cowboy western movie. Police are trained when faced with a deadly force situation to shoot center mass until the threat is stopped.
There was a shooting of an unarmed person in the stairwell of a building in New York City by an officer, the guy wasn't doing anything but still ended up getting shot.
So your just going by "fatalities."?
You're not going to count the percentage of suicides, divorce rate, mentally burned out in 5-10 years because your dealing with scum of a population every single day. Or the fact that the very next traffic stop maybe the last moments you have on earth.... so...yeah policing is an extremely easy job.
I seriously doubt he got shot for doing nothing, something had to escalate it.
This brings up another point that, like the shooting the leg thing, is a common misconception and that is that if an officer shoots an "unarmed" person that he his somehow automatically in the wrong.
There is no way for a cop to know the full capabilities of someone they are dealing with. There are plenty of strong, skilled people that could easily kill someone with their bare hands. Also, think about this, the person may be unarmed but the COP isn't. This works for and against the cop. If a cop gets in a fight with someone, all it takes is 1 good punch and the officer could be out cold, and his pistol for the taking. Also, what if the cop is fighting with someone and he knows he only has 5 seconds left before physical exhaustion sets in?
Let's say theres a 5'10" 150 lbs cop that just responded to a murder and the suspect who is 6'5 250 lbs and was still there and he walks towards the cop clenching his fists saying "I'm gonna kill you too!" The cop draws and orders him to stop or he'll shoot. The suspect is still coming and is 10 feet from the cop. What does the cop do? Run away and let the murderer get away, or shoot?
Also, believe it or not teasers and pepper spray do not work on everyone, and if a physical confrontation goes on too long, the officer may have no other choice.
I seriously doubt he got shot for doing nothing, something had to escalate it.
This brings up another point that, like the shooting the leg thing, is a common misconception and that is that if an officer shoots an "unarmed" person that he his somehow automatically in the wrong.
There is no way for a cop to know the full capabilities of someone they are dealing with. There are plenty of strong, skilled people that could easily kill someone with their bare hands. Also, think about this, the person may be unarmed but the COP isn't. This works for and against the cop. If a cop gets in a fight with someone, all it takes is 1 good punch and the officer could be out cold, and his pistol for the taking. Also, what if the cop is fighting with someone and he knows he only has 5 seconds left before physical exhaustion sets in?
Let's say theres a 5'10" 150 lbs cop that just responded to a murder and the suspect who is 6'5 250 lbs and was still there and he walks towards the cop clenching his fists saying "I'm gonna kill you too!" The cop draws and orders him to stop or he'll shoot. The suspect is still coming and is 10 feet from the cop. What does the cop do? Run away and let the murderer get away, or shoot?
Also, believe it or not teasers and pepper spray do not work on everyone, and if a physical confrontation goes on too long, the officer may have no other choice.
I seriously doubt he got shot for doing nothing, something had to escalate it.
This brings up another point that, like the shooting the leg thing, is a common misconception and that is that if an officer shoots an "unarmed" person that he his somehow automatically in the wrong.
There is no way for a cop to know the full capabilities of someone they are dealing with. There are plenty of strong, skilled people that could easily kill someone with their bare hands. Also, think about this, the person may be unarmed but the COP isn't. This works for and against the cop. If a cop gets in a fight with someone, all it takes is 1 good punch and the officer could be out cold, and his pistol for the taking. Also, what if the cop is fighting with someone and he knows he only has 5 seconds left before physical exhaustion sets in?
Let's say theres a 5'10" 150 lbs cop that just responded to a murder and the suspect who is 6'5 250 lbs and was still there and he walks towards the cop clenching his fists saying "I'm gonna kill you too!" The cop draws and orders him to stop or he'll shoot. The suspect is still coming and is 10 feet from the cop. What does the cop do? Run away and let the murderer get away, or shoot?
Also, believe it or not teasers and pepper spray do not work on everyone, and if a physical confrontation goes on too long, the officer may have no other choice.
Here's a hypothetical scenario for you:
Your grandpa is standing outside a mart, possibly selling individual cigarettes. He is non-violent, non-confrontational, and non-threatening. Cops arrive to arrest him, and one of the cops uses an illegal choke hold to subdue him, a choke hold that the coroner determines was enough of a contributing factor in your grandpa's death that the cause of death is listed as homicide.
Would you be justifiably upset if the grand jury refused to press charges against a cop who contributed to your grandpa's death with the use of an illegal choke hold?
Here's a list of the 10 most dangerous jobs in America. Spoiler: being a cop isn't on the list.
The 10 Deadliest Jobs:
1. Logging workers
2. Fishers and related fishing workers
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers
4. Roofers
5. Structural iron and steel workers
6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers
9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
10. Construction laborers
America's 10 Deadliest Jobs - Forbes
Top 10 Most Dangerous Jobs in the Country: Police Officer is NOT on the List | The Free Thought Project
"What exactly is more dangerous than being a cop? For starters, a trash collector is twice as likely to die on the job versus a cop, fishing is 7 times more dangerous than being a cop, and logging workers, nearly 9 times more dangerous.
Here are occupations more dangerous than being a police officer. Number of deaths per 100,000 employed:
- Logging workers: 127.8
- Fishermen: 117.0
- Aircraft pilots: 53.4
- Roofers: 40.5
- Garbage collectors: 36.8
- Electrical power line installation/repair: 29.8
- Truck drivers: 22.8
- Oil and gas extraction: 21.9
- Farmers and ranchers: 21.3
- Construction workers: 17.4
The majority of police deaths are not as a result of violence in the line of duty either, most have occurred accidentally rather than feloniously. Most police officers die, not in some heroic high speed pursuit of a child murderer, but in routine traffic accidents."
Not advocating police brutality, but the tone of the previous page towards your average police officer was really disturbing. Most of my family works in the service industry and their lives are constantly affected by it.
As was mentioned, not quite so gracefully, by YBORCITY, it's not just fatalities that are an issue in the field.
I realize these situations are horrible, but I hate the idea, as well, that what police officers do for us, in general, is some kind of no big deal thing, either.
Again, your "statistics" are flawed. Do they take into account anything other than fatalities? What about fights, injuries, stabbings, non fatal shootings, car crashes, being run over by a car while doing a traffic stop, etc etc etc.
My argument isn't that being a cop is the MOST dangerous job, but rather it is more dangerous than the naysayers on here (with no law enforcement experience, i might add) that seem to think its "no different than any other job", like a walmart greeter for instance.
I've never defended that particular incident which you are alluding to. I've seen the video and the cop's choke hold was inexcuseable. IMO he should at MINIMUM have lost his job.
A Fox affiliate in Baltimore aired a segment on Sunday showing footage from a "Justice For All" demonstration in Washington, D.C. in which it edited a chant to sound like protestors were shouting "kill a cop."
"At this rally in Washington, D.C. protestors chanted, 'we won't stop, we can't stop, so kill a cop,'" the WBFF broadcast said.
But the full footage, flagged by Gawker on Monday via C-SPAN, revealed that the chant was "we won't stop, we can't stop, 'til killer cops are in cell blocks."
Care to answer mine now?
Not advocating police brutality, but the tone of the previous page towards your average police officer was really disturbing. Most of my family works in the service industry and their lives are constantly affected by it.
As was mentioned, not quite so gracefully, by YBORCITY, it's not just fatalities that are an issue in the field.
I realize these situations are horrible, but I hate the idea, as well, that what police officers do for us, in general, is some kind of no big deal thing, either.
The other job death statistics don't take into account injuries, so it's likely that if you included injuries in all the statistics, they would still be similar to the death statistics.
You can't just say that statistics are flawed just because they don't fit into your preconceived notions. I was conservative until I started to look at statistics that made me reconsider my firmly held beliefs.