BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Bonoman, HipHop
iacrobat said:
I don't think it can be argued that wife abuse, rape or child abuse is directly related to alcohol in the same way lung cancer is directly related to second hand smoke.
I think there are larger issues at work in the examples you gave, it's not simply an issue of alcohol. Alcohol may be a catalyst, but removing it would not resolve the issues.
A bad comparison indeed.
Angela Harlem said:
Some of these, but not all are somewhat bad comparisons. I dont think bonoman would disagree. There is though an issue directly related to alcohol itself with no bigger picture issues, like drunk driving, random accidents from foolish behaviour, and the simple fact that alcohol can and does break up families. It is as addictive and dangerous as many other drugs and it in itself is a major cause of just as many health problems.
Personally, I couldnt really care less if smoking was banned everywhere. I think its stupid, and definitely hypocritical as I cant honestly imagine everyone who disagrees with smoking in pubs never eats fast food, never throws down a few drinks here and there, religiously sticks to the exercise 3-5 times a week rule and doesn't set foot inside a poluted dirty city inhaling all the fumes. Please. It is as much about health issues as my arse. It has to be fundamentally the smell which pisses everyone off. And that is ok, because cigarettes stink. But health reasons, no way. When we see worldwide bans on McDonalds and Guinness then I will see a point.
Besides which, beer stinks. And McDonalds restaurants (oxymoron of the day) reek like shit too. We dont outlaw them. Though we should if we want to be fair about all this.
bonoman said:The entire arguement that smoking kills and that this is for health reasons is bullshit, ask yourself if government were so concerned about health reason then why are smokes not banned in your country? Oh thats right, money, taxes. I pay 10$ CDN for a pack of smokes. $6.50 of that is federal tax! Did you know that? Maybe that the reason that smokes havent been banned, they want it both ways, they love our money but at the same time take away our freedoms.
What is next, not being allowed to smoke in your house? Our not being allowed to smoke in your car? There have been laws prohibiting smoking off public streets!
Doesnt anyone see the hipocracy of it all. All the non smokers here havent said a peep about getting rid of smokes all together, why, maybe because we are free to act as we like? But like to turn around and put smokers into a second class.
The people that complain they hate the bars because they are smokey and you smell like smoke, why are you still going to these bars? I dont understand it? Oh thats right, you'll accept the hardship of having to deal with something that discomforts you for plesure, well thats the only reason i can come up with. So now what you have done is put smokers into the same spot. When a smoker now goes to a bar they are put through the discomfort of having to go outside, into say -20C weather.
There has never been any comprimise brought forward. Like for example, has anyone here been into a casino, or a bar that has PROPER ventalation? If you have you will know the difference between a bar without and a bar with. Has anyone ever considered opening a bar for non-smokers? Obviously it is a great idea, since there are so many that hate smoking out there. Ya, i've seen places like that come and go, but i guess thats besides the point.
whenhiphopdrovethebigcars said:Then what about the pollution by traffic, Dorian Gray?
whenhiphopdrovethebigcars said:but it is economically, politically and socially viable to reduce a large amount of private traffic in big cities. it?s also realistic and possible. don?t you think so?
whenhiphopdrovethebigcars said:but it is economically, politically and socially viable to reduce a large amount of private traffic in big cities. it?s also realistic and possible. don?t you think so?
Angela Harlem said:It is as much about health issues as my arse.
bonoman said:I understand smoking is bad. I make the effort to not smoke around non-smokers. I'm not someone who is going to blow smoke in your face nor am i someone who will smoke if not allowed, in private homes, cars etc.
But to me it the fundamental point of being a free business and being up to the business owner. We live in capitalistic societies and have free enterprises, smoking should be left up to business owners.
I know smoking will become something of a underground thing in 10-20years. Its a fact i understand. And I like most smokers would quit tommorrow if we could. But it's hard. This might helps but not at the expense of business owners right to run their establishments the way they like. Eventually smoking would slowly be weeded out of bars, because the market would demand it, sure there would still be smoking bars but the majority wouldnt be smoking.
I understand everyone compnalints about smoking, i even hate the bleedin things, but i hope you understand the rights owners are losing and how gov't are dictating how to run their business's.
bonoman said:But to me it the fundamental point of being a free business and being up to the business owner. We live in capitalistic societies and have free enterprises, smoking should be left up to business owners.
Angela Harlem said:
Some of these, but not all are somewhat bad comparisons. I dont think bonoman would disagree. There is though an issue directly related to alcohol itself with no bigger picture issues, like drunk driving, random accidents from foolish behaviour, and the simple fact that alcohol can and does break up families. It is as addictive and dangerous as many other drugs and it in itself is a major cause of just as many health problems.
Personally, I couldnt really care less if smoking was banned everywhere. I think its stupid, and definitely hypocritical as I cant honestly imagine everyone who disagrees with smoking in pubs never eats fast food, never throws down a few drinks here and there, religiously sticks to the exercise 3-5 times a week rule and doesn't set foot inside a poluted dirty city inhaling all the fumes. Please. It is as much about health issues as my arse. It has to be fundamentally the smell which pisses everyone off. And that is ok, because cigarettes stink. But health reasons, no way. When we see worldwide bans on McDonalds and Guinness then I will see a point.
Besides which, beer stinks. And McDonalds restaurants (oxymoron of the day) reek like shit too. We dont outlaw them. Though we should if we want to be fair about all this.
babble said:With these facts in mind, why would you be against a ban on smoking in a public environment?
Angela Harlem said:Personally, I couldnt really care less if smoking was banned everywhere. I think its stupid, and definitely hypocritical as I cant honestly imagine everyone who disagrees with smoking in pubs never eats fast food, never throws down a few drinks here and there, religiously sticks to the exercise 3-5 times a week rule and doesn't set foot inside a poluted dirty city inhaling all the fumes. Please. It is as much about health issues as my arse. It has to be fundamentally the smell which pisses everyone off. And that is ok, because cigarettes stink. But health reasons, no way. When we see worldwide bans on McDonalds and Guinness then I will see a point. Besides which, beer stinks. And McDonalds restaurants (oxymoron of the day) reek like shit too. We dont outlaw them. Though we should if we want to be fair about all this.
Angela Harlem said:Yes exactly babble, yet no one is telling him to stop are they?
Same thing iacrobat. Why pick one problem and not all? Its not the only danger.
I actually don't think that is truebonoman said:It kills everyone, why are our gov't still selling them? WHY?
Angela Harlem said:Yes exactly babble, yet no one is telling him to stop are they?
Same thing iacrobat. Why pick one problem and not all? Its not the only danger.
Angela Harlem said:Yes exactly babble, yet no one is telling him to stop are they?
Same thing iacrobat. Why pick one problem and not all? Its not the only danger.
bonoman said:Is everyone here for banning smokes altogether? Please say yes. Oh but the gov't would never do that because of the taxes it generates.
It kills everyone, why are our gov't still selling them? WHY?
Salome said:I don't think 3 cigarettes a day or whatever (I don't smoke so don't ask me) will cause you long cancer
and if you feel miserable withot them you're better off smoking