Mrs. Edge said:
Holy moly! I just got back from the ballet and this thread is HUGE! I'm wayyyy too tired to read it all in detail, but someone asked me if I was willing to put my ego aside and believe.
Well sure, but this has nothing to do with my ego!! The point is that if I am going to invest that much time and energy and emotion and well, my whole eternal soul perhaps, then it had better be in something I can truly understand and embrace.
We have also gone into some very deep discussions that are way beyond the original question, which is great, but I haven't a clue what people are talking about, having never read the Bible, quoting it to me will not mean anything. I don't even know what a Calvinist is! Who is Calvin?
All I really wanted to know was if God would be willing to "get over it" if someone was a non believer and forgive them. I think if he supposedly loves us that much, he SHOULD!
No one has yet answered my question about why someone who believes and changes their mind gets into heaven, but someone who never did believe does not. THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!!!!!
People also talk a lot about just "accepting" Jesus and all this....well, I find it very hard to just believe in something because someone tells you to. It's like an arranged marriage and your parents say "here is your husband...go love him" I just can't be force fed such things.
I just don't get it.
great post. i would really recommend reading the Bible, it is the best place to find these answers! if you need a place to start, go for one of the gospels (the first four books of the new testament), john is the one i'd go with. also, if possible, try and find an NIV translation, imo it is the easiest translation to read while still remaining accurate.
if you want to do some other reading, check out some c.s. lewis, maybe "the problem of pain". he is a great author. he started out as an ardent atheist, and was eventually converted, and explains christianity so well and in easy to understand terms. in this particular book, he speaks a lot to the whether or not it is just for God to send some people to hell, while other get to go to heaven. believe me, it is a difficult cooncept to explain, and even more difficult to come to terms with. so, i'd really recommend reading up on the subject, instead of taking a bunch of crazed u2 nuts word for it.
and i'll try to answer your question, as well as possible in this limited space, but definitly do read some other stuff.
here goes: i'm not so sure that someone who did believe, then changes their mind about it does get in to heaven. to me, it is implied that they have rejected their faith. they have turned God down, and by doing so, have forfeited the gift of forgiveness.
so, someone who turns away after a life of faithfulness, is in the same boat as the person who rejected the offer from the beginning.
in the same vein, someone who has been an unbeliever their entire life, but is converted at the end, goes to heaven just the same as a person who has believed all along.
oh, and calvin was a theolgian from the 16th century (help me out guys, is that right?) who taught the notion of double predestination...that is some people are destined for heaven from eternity (the elect) and on the flip side, other people are destined to hell from eternity. this is where you start getting into problems with whether or not God is acting justly. if you want to get a better answer than calvin gives, check out martin luther the guy is a genius.
hope this helps, and remember, Bible-John, c.s. lewis-"problem of pain". you will find some answers there!