Vlad n U 2
Blue Crack Addict
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2008
- Messages
- 28,386
I'm pre-1789, nobody is allowed to show any skin outside of their face.
I am still bewildered by the average Right Winger's love of Big Business/Pseudo Capitalism. How the 1 percent got average struggling Americans to fight to keep them rich is nothing short of astonishing. I am so conservative in my thoughts and actions - but I can't imagine how fighting to keep other people rich (or - making them even richer) is a "conservative" cause.
my ultra-cynical side thinks it's because they chose the side of their other opinions--perhaps stance on abortion, gays, gun control, pick a topic any topic--and mindlessly follow any other stances that side holds on which they previously had no opinion, because it's the opinion they're supposed to have on corporate America as a good Republican.
because our leaders, for the most part, are a bunch of ideological twats who have no interest in compromise or the greater good, only the furthering of their party's platform and their own careers.
It makes one want to vomit.
I've been wondering this myself since I was about 10 years old. As an adult I'm still not entirely sure what the answer is, but I'm leaning toward one of two things. 1) they firmly believe in the whole "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" thing, and honestly think that in the great country that is the u s of a, everyone has a fair shake at going from a childhood on good stamps to becoming a multi-billionaire if they just work hard enough and want it enough. I don't really understand how they can subscribe so fully to this idea when so many of them haven't managed exactly that in their own lives, because if the fairy tale version of the American Dream was a truly plausible achievement for everyone rather than straight rhetoric with some anecdotal evidence to point to and say it is possible, wouldn't they have done their best to attain it?
As someone whose (i) father was born into the Great Depression and (ii) mother was a war refugee (WWII) from Eastern Europe, I can tell you that upward mobility exists for those willing to work hard and spend very wisely. Opportunity is there, but it looks a lot like hard work and sacrifice. It is not an absolute guarantee and there (as will most things in life) is a degree of “luck”.I've been wondering this myself since I was about 10 years old. As an adult I'm still not entirely sure what the answer is, but I'm leaning toward one of two things. 1) they firmly believe in the whole "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" thing, and honestly think that in the great country that is the u s of a, everyone has a fair shake at going from a childhood on good stamps to becoming a multi-billionaire if they just work hard enough and want it enough. I don't really understand how they can subscribe so fully to this idea when so many of them haven't managed exactly that in their own lives, because if the fairy tale version of the American Dream was a truly plausible achievement for everyone rather than straight rhetoric with some anecdotal evidence to point to and say it is possible, wouldn't they have done their best to attain it? 2) my ultra-cynical side thinks it's because they chose the side of their other opinions--perhaps stance on abortion, gays, gun control, pick a topic any topic--and mindlessly follow any other stances that side holds on which they previously had no opinion, because it's the opinion they're supposed to have on corporate America as a good Republican.
But for the most part, it still baffles me too.
As someone whose (i) father was born into the Great Depression and (ii) mother was a war refugee (WWII) from Eastern Europe, I can tell you that upward mobility exists for those willing to work hard and spend very wisely. Opportunity is there, but it looks a lot like hard work and sacrifice. It is not an absolute guarantee and there (as will most things in life) is a degree of “luck”.
I find that the “American Dream” has been corrupted by a consumption based society that seeks rewards today in place of the potential greater reward in the future. For all the things we didn’t have when I was growing up, I now see the wisdom in those choices.
AEON said:There is a certain amount of truth to that. At least there used to be.
How many people of your generation bought their first family starter home at $1M? Because that's what my generation is looking at in a number of urban areas. And no, you aren't getting a mansion for that money either, I can assure you.
This attitude is a major reason why we can't accomplish anything. "Upward mobility exists if you're willing to work hard!" is one of the biggest hindrances we have to progress, because it's simply not true in so many cases. There are tons of people who are willing to work hard who aren't afforded the opportunity for upward mobility. If you can't see that, I don't know where the hell you've been during my lifetime.As someone whose (i) father was born into the Great Depression and (ii) mother was a war refugee (WWII) from Eastern Europe, I can tell you that upward mobility exists for those willing to work hard and spend very wisely. Opportunity is there, but it looks a lot like hard work and sacrifice. It is not an absolute guarantee and there (as will most things in life) is a degree of “luck”.
Exactly.
NBC came in here telling is that through hard work, post WW2 his parents flourished. That's the point - we are ostensibly far worse off today and we don't have the same opportunities. Hell you don't have to go that far in time - the house my parents live in was maybe $200K 20 years ago. Today it's $750-800K. In the Toronto suburbs and wages have not gone up significantly at all. If you think it is realistic for today's young people to work as hard as your parents did and enjoy the same standard of living as your parents did, you're really out to pasture.
How many people of your generation bought their first family starter home at $1M? Because that's what my generation is looking at in a number of urban areas. And no, you aren't getting a mansion for that money either, I can assure you.
I am still bewildered by the average Right Winger's love of Big Business/Pseudo Capitalism. How the 1 percent got average struggling Americans to fight to keep them rich is nothing short of astonishing. I am so conservative in my thoughts and actions - but I can't imagine how fighting to keep other people rich (or - making them even richer) is a "conservative" cause.
The stereotypical middle class tea party type who looks down at the "freeloading" 47% simply fails to realize that to the top 5%, he ain't much better or more successful. They still wouldn't want their kids to go to schools with his. In fact, they'll likely have few opportunities in life to ever mix.
I guess the older I get, I see more importance in a human life and the ability to feed one's family above something as arbitrary as "markets."It's not a love of Big Business but a love of free enterprise. I don't defend every practice of Walmart or any large corporation but who do you trust to place a value on labor; markets or temporary politicians on a city council?
It seems they've now blended quite nicely - and the funny part is, they got the good ol fashioned hard working Americans to do the fighting for them all the way to their own economic freedom grave.There many types of pseudo capitalism AEON. I'm not a corporatist either but I fear state-capitalism even more.
All the more reason to stop saddling future generations with mountains of debt.
It's amazing how people take "the markets" and treat it like another invisible sky friend who does no wrong and is always right and if we'd just get out of the way it would fix everything.
Sure. Let's increase revenues to decrease debt.
Haven't we all learned from posters past that what matters is % of GDP?
Isn't it about 75%? And from what I understand, that isn't exactly optimal.
I guess the older I get, I see more importance in a human life and the ability to feed one's family above something as arbitrary as "markets."
Haven't we all learned from posters past that what matters is % of GDP?
We have a revenue problem. Let's revisit the 1990s.
...an untold number of voluntary, individual decisions.
why not $18.00/hr?
Even supply-side economists are mumbling under their breathe, "shut up INDY, you're not helping us."Markets aren't "arbitrary," quite the contrary. Market forces are the result of an untold number of voluntary, individual decisions.