GA Line Controversy @ RoseBowl-What happened?

[romi]

one last thing. I think we all knew before the Pasadena show that it would be difficult to get there and line up early. It's in a secluded area with little transportation and no place to park. I'm confident this was the one "bad apple" GA on this tour, and that at other U.S. shows, it will be much better.

 

[Lila64]

We were there at 7:00am, and only really got one rail spot because Carlos saved one for Maddy. I stood behind her. I didn't want the pit, I wanted outer rail, and settled for second row behind her. If things had been run fairly, I should probably have been afforded some sort of rail spot... If I had been able to attend more than one show, than yes, I may have tried to be in the pit at least once.

 

[corianderstem]

Have fun at your next show.

Thank you, sir. I had a great time.

If they do end up going with some sort of lottery next time, I'm okay with that - as long as they make it clear to everyone well before people would start lining up, so we don't have the confusion and pissed-offedness with the first Vertigo show.

But hey - no use worrying and griping about it now. Let's at least wait until the next leg to start rehashing the same old arguments.

 

[Chrisedge]

Posts like yours seem sillier to me. It's not fair at all to give everyone the same chance when some are willing to give much more effort.

If people would just behave, conversations like these should not be necessary. I haven't heard this kind of drama at any of my gigs, nor any others on the first leg. Is that a case for security or a case for more civilised people?

What is "more effort"? Give the effort to cheat? Or come up with some "system" that they (line nazis) think is fair? Like telling people to sign up on a sheet and come back in the morning and you are ok? Or letting people leave for a hour or two to go back to hotels, and keep their spot? Or saving spots for their friends? Who determines what is "fair"? What I think is fair is a lot different than what "good GA lines" have done. (My take is, you should rot in line with the only reason to leave is to go to a nearby portapotty, no leaving overnight or for more than a FEW (3-7) minutes, no saving spots, nothing. I don't think any line did this)

Of course "if people would just behave"...THEY DON'T...There is always someone trying to screw others. Including folks on this board that pushed their way past myself in line, seeing an opportunity to be a little closer to the band. I don't have a big issue with it, because if one person is leaving room, another person will step into it. It's the way it is.

Nothing is fair, is my point. The lottery makes the unfairness more random = more fair...

 

[Chrisedge]

hey guys. I was not in Pasadena, but wanted to add my feelings on a lottery: Bad idea.

I've been happy on the outer rail. This has allowed me to line up at 2 or 3 a.m. on the day of the show, instead of hours earlier to get on the front rail. If there was a lottery, I would be forced to show up much earlier, knowing that all of the outer rail spots would be taken by people who didn't scan in.

I tend to agree even though I posted it.

However this idea of fan run lines, and numbering crap sucks. I have watched folks push past number folks and just cut in. I will agree that the key to a smooth line, is security and pre-setup. They should have massive gated/pens areas, and folks are required to WAIT. No numbering, unless it's done nationwide, and you must stay there to be able to wait. Maybe thoughout the day, they check the numbers and if you miss two checks your number is invalid or something.

I just hate (and always have) these self appointed folks that run the lines, thinking they are owed something. 2 different self appointed folks show up at different times + shitty security = Rose Bowl.

 

[corianderstem]

Another thing about self-appointed line folks - and as I've never done it myself, maybe there's an actual explanation as to how this works. I only saw it second-hand in Chicago as my friend received texts from other friends basically saying "Get down here now," and then it was a game of Where's Waldo until we found the line sitting under some trees.

How are you supposed to know who the line runners are? Sounds like you just show up a day or two (or three) in advance and hunt around the grounds and hope to find someone with a sharpie and a list.

Can I just decide I'm the official line organizer for Seattle next summer and aribtrarily decide where and when the line will start? That's what it all kind of sounds like to me. What if three people decide they're starting the line? Whose line is the one that should be honored?

Lining up to see U2 shouldn't have to involve sleuthing and guessing.

 

[romi]

Hi Chris,

You have some good points. I will answer each:

Or come up with some "system" that they (line nazis) think is fair?
Yes, in general, the people running the line get to choose the specifics. Sometimes they choose wisley, sometimes they do not.

Like telling people to sign up on a sheet and come back in the morning and you are ok?
That's generally a bad strategy, I agree. In Phoenix and Vegas, it was the only option, and it worked both times. Maybe by Pasadena, everyone was just used to it being OK, but that's a bad habit to have.

Or letting people leave for a hour or two to go back to hotels, and keep their spot?
You have to keep the people happy, so letting them go for a few hours at a time is a must, I think. On the last tour, line leaders did check-ins, and everyone who missed two in a row would get crossed off. I have not seen any roll calls this tour (in the US) and that has allowed people to be gone most of the day. It sucks when you are the one sitting there, but the real reason you want to keep people there as long as possible is to keep the line stable the night before the show. You don't want a second line starting and saying they are the official line.

Or saving spots for their friends?
On this tour I have experienced the first person in line saving a spot for four of the six shows I went to. I figure that's OK, as long as it is no more than one person. The line leader has a lot more responsibility than everyone else, and that's why he or she also deserves to be treated with coffee, donuts, etc. Under no circumstance can anyone else hold a place in line is my opinion.

Who determines what is "fair"? What I think is fair is a lot different than what "good GA lines" have done.
I think it's really up to the person or group running the line.

There is always someone trying to screw others.
Very true. Everyone in line has to do their best to prevent that; not just the first person in line.

 

[romi]

as someone who ran a few lines on the last tour, and helped out a couple of times this fall:

the line leader is decided not by who wants it more, but the person who arrives first and decides to stay. Of course, if I started the line and then someone wanted to take over, I would let them. Line running takes a lot out of you. Dealing with security, cops and fellow fans who can be very stressed out......

 

[corianderstem]

I can believe that - you couldn't PAY me to run a U2 GA line!

 

[VintagePunk]

Regarding the posts from Chrisedge, Lila, Cori and Romi, you all have good points.

I've said since last tour that the one thing that's lacking throughout all the GA lines is consistency. If there were a consistent system in place from venue to venue, and decent security to oversee that system, there would be no problem whatsoever.

It's within U2's/Principle Management's power to set this up and administer it - why haven't they done it yet? They're the ones who choose to have GA at their shows, I think they should take some responsibility for seeing that it's a safe, fair, orderly experience. It's fine and dandy to blame problems on other fans and local security, but I really feel that the ultimate responsibility rests on PM. They're the ones that choose the venues, and therefore, local security is employed by them. If they're going to use local security, they should make sure that they're aware of what to expect, what rules are in place, how to deal with problems, etc.

This would be SO simple. PM taking charge, instituting consistent GA line procedures, making sure anyone employed or contracted by them is aware of the rules and procedures, and perhaps most importantly, fans would at least know what to expect from city to city.

PM doesn't seem to be taking my calls though, so...

 

[Daddysgonnapay]

Can I just decide I'm the official line organizer for Seattle next summer and aribtrarily decide where and when the line will start? That's what it all kind of sounds like to me. What if three people decide they're starting the line? Whose line is the one that should be honored?

.

sure!! and I am going to be the line-leader in Cincinnati.....if they ever decide to come here...ever

 

[dream chaser]

I agree that if U2 wanted to, they could work closely with venue security to develop a workable system. The best I ever saw was TDBankNorth Garden in Boston--they honored the fan line, handed out numbered venue wristbands, and policed the line. Still had to camp out, but had the security of knowing the venue wasn't going to screw us over.

 

[dream chaser]

so sorry to hear how bad this was...it is truly scary...especially the pushing and shoving..I have been on the receiving end of that, and it ain't fun our Vegas line was so orderly...and the security there was on top of it ALL day....even came around and said "if someone cuts the line...come to US and WE will remove them

Yeah the Vegas line was notably run well. I was impressed.

 

[romi]

Yeah the Vegas line was notably run well. I was impressed.

Security was so on top of it, they even agreed to kick out those who had previously missed the morning roll call.

 

[DRay9911]

sure!! and I am going to be the line-leader in Cincinnati.....if they ever decide to come here...ever

i was going to volunteer to work with the Police Department, Fire Department and University Police had there been the rumored* two shows in Tucson...i had everything worked out in my head.

guess that won't be happening

-dan









* - me posting it here on interference

 

[zuropa_fit]

^

 

[u2gek]

Hate to tell you but those "2 girls with fake id's attempting to run the line in the morning" did not get kicked to the back of the line. That earlier pix is not one of them. I ended up squished in the beginning of the mob in front of the gate next to them. They continued to be indignant yelling at people who had numbers higher than them. They made it to the outer rail after me and my 2 friends. One tried to squish her way more to the center which didn't work and they ended up a couple people down from me more to the outside of Adam's rail. They were in their 30's, married with kids and continued with a story (to my friend- a guy- couldn't help himself/ I refused to speak to them) about being there since wednesday, sleeping on the golf course and meeting crew and the crew asking them to help. Uhhh- please. I am sure we have pix but I won't post. One got real sick towards the end and her sister wouldn't help her. Karma???

Hi - just have to ask, was one of them the curly haired ?

Thanks!

 

[jesseu2]

NO!! LOL I know her... she definitely is not part of th evil duo. That's allI want to add. -DD*

DD, Jesse from Phoenix here.. you're right, she wasn't!!

 

[david]

Hmmm!




After the heat and all the bullshit the first secion started to move at about 4:15 it definately was a crushing crowd I could not breathe, so I kept inching my way to the side of the line so I could get some air. I did see a LOT of people cut inand they had numbers in the 1000's!!Security did NOTHING about it! as mentioned the crowd went heartless and wild as soon as the line began to move.

That was the problem. Barricades and tape wouldn't hold people back. I was in the 700's and as soon as the line started moving it didn't just start moving in an orderly fashion, it turned into a situation where you felt like you had to run with the herd and keep going or else you were going to get crushed.

 

[anitram]

If there was a lottery, I would be forced to show up much earlier, knowing that all of the outer rail spots would be taken by people who didn't scan in.

Only if U2 used the same lottery as last time.

If they moved to a Springsteen-type lottery, there would be no point in lining up at all.

 

[corianderstem]

Earlier this year I was poking around on the Springsteen Backstreets forum, where they were having a GA discussion.

I had to laugh when I saw a few comments that basically said "why can't Bruce do GA the way U2 does it????"

Grass is always greener and whatnot.

 

[romi]

If the GA was completely random.... like, I could be pushed to being 5,000 back in line, there would be no point of doing GA.

 

[ntalwar]

It's within U2's/Principle Management's power to set this up and administer it - why haven't they done it yet? They're the ones who choose to have GA at their shows, I think they should take some responsibility for seeing that it's a safe, fair, orderly experience. It's fine and dandy to blame problems on other fans and local security, but I really feel that the ultimate responsibility rests on PM. They're the ones that choose the venues, and therefore, local security is employed by them. If they're going to use local security, they should make sure that they're aware of what to expect, what rules are in place, how to deal with problems, etc.

Because it happens outside the venue, in public places frequently. I think if the band had their way, they would have people just show up starting at 4 or 5pm and trickle in over 2 hours. Live Nation is the one that chooses venues and produces the show, not the band. It's an impossibly complex task to deal with every possible scenario. The logistics would be a nightmare. Security is not trained to deal with GA lines - 99%+ of their events are reserved seating. But I think I read some venues send people as observers to other U2 shows. The main thing in the mind of good security is (or should be) to prevent a repeat of the 1979 Who Concert GA incident.

 

[ramblin rose]

Only if U2 used the same lottery as last time.

If they moved to a Springsteen-type lottery, there would be no point in lining up at all.

If U2 did the lottery the way Bruce does it for Stadiums then only the first people who got to the line in time to get one of a limited number of wristbands would be able to get into the pit period.

There would still be a line, maybe worse, because people would know they had no chance to get into the pit if they didn't at least get a pit wristband.

Right now for U2 at least you can still get into the pit even if you show up at 6 or 7PM.

 

[Daddysgonnapay]

so , yeah...just to clear up the Who tragedy, that was in my town, Cincinnati....the problem was the doors were not open and there was a mass of people...no lines....and the band arrived late...and did a sound check...peeps outside thought the concert was starting...and crushed towards the doors..which were not open yet...it was an ugly free-for all...peeps were trampled and sufficated...total unprepared security for the surge of people did not open the doors to alleviate the crowd surge....result of that night ...11 dead

 

[VintagePunk]

Because it happens outside the venue, in public places frequently. I think if the band had their way, they would have people just show up starting at 4 or 5pm and trickle in over 2 hours. Live Nation is the one that chooses venues and produces the show, not the band. It's an impossibly complex task to deal with every possible scenario. The logistics would be a nightmare. Security is not trained to deal with GA lines - 99%+ of their events are reserved seating. But I think I read some venues send people as observers to other U2 shows. The main thing in the mind of good security is (or should be) to prevent a repeat of the 1979 Who Concert GA incident.

I don't really understand a lot of what you're saying. It happens in public places? Sure it does, on the venue grounds. I don't understand your point, here.

Maybe the band would like people to trickle in at a more reasonable time, but I seriously doubt it. I'm sure they enjoy the hype and the sense of excitement, the huge "event-ness" that goes hand in hand with people lining up early for shows - it builds anticipation, and when others hear about it, they want to see the shows too. It's all part and parcel of concert and band promotion.

Yes, Live Nation plays a large part in choosing venues, but a band of U2's stature certainly has input as well. If there was a venue they refused to play, for some reason, do you honestly thing LN would force them to?

How is managing a GA line incredibly complex? PM could hire a couple of security people to tour along with them, they could be onsite to supervise the local security, and to make sure that these clusterfucks don't occur. It's a lot less complicated then you're making it sound. It could be very simple, really.

Of course the main thing is to prevent tragedy. No one ever said that wasn't the point. But while doing so, they could also make it a reasonably pleasant experience, which many GA lines are, anyway.

 

[Dakotalola]

't understand your point, here.

Maybe the band would like people to trickle in at a more reasonable time, but I seriously doubt it. I'm sure they enjoy the hype and the sense of excitement, the huge "event-ness" that goes hand in hand with people lining up early for shows -
PM could hire a couple of security people to tour along with them, they could be onsite to supervise the
local security, and to make sure that these clusterfucks don't occur. It's a lot less complicated then you're making it sound. It could be very simple, really.

Of course the main thing is to prevent tragedy. No one ever said that wasn't the point. But while doing so, they could also make it a reasonably pleasant experience, which many GA lines are, anyway.

I agree that a couple of people traveling with the band coordinating with local security just on managing ga lines is a good idea and could work. It would be consistant Maybe they'd break the line into 100 person sections fir ticket scanning and security would stop a mad rush to the front as soon as there's movement. Being bruised and near tears and crushed in the crowd or worse is no way to start of the concert experience. The RB ga line looked awful. I'm glad I wasn't in it. Felt bad for the ones who were and tried to play by the rules only to have mayhem ensue.

 

[Galeongirl]

What is "more effort"? Give the effort to cheat? Or come up with some "system" that they (line nazis) think is fair? Like telling people to sign up on a sheet and come back in the morning and you are ok? Or letting people leave for a hour or two to go back to hotels, and keep their spot? Or saving spots for their friends? Who determines what is "fair"? What I think is fair is a lot different than what "good GA lines" have done. (My take is, you should rot in line with the only reason to leave is to go to a nearby portapotty, no leaving overnight or for more than a FEW (3-7) minutes, no saving spots, nothing. I don't think any line did this)

Of course "if people would just behave"...THEY DON'T...There is always someone trying to screw others. Including folks on this board that pushed their way past myself in line, seeing an opportunity to be a little closer to the band. I don't have a big issue with it, because if one person is leaving room, another person will step into it. It's the way it is.

Nothing is fair, is my point. The lottery makes the unfairness more random = more fair...

None of those things you mentioned are fair. Fair would be how it worked in the lines I was at. You get your number, at some lines you sign your name and you STAY in the line. Yes, I think it's okay to leave for about 30 minutes(since it takes a while to get to a decent food stall) to get some food or to put stuff in your car or a toilet, but that's all. NO people cannot join you hours later because you 'saved' a spot for them. If they want the spot, they have to be there to claim it at the moment it's taken.

Well, and THAT is where security comes in. For example in Amsterdam this was brilliant. They honoured the fan system, were watching throughout the day. There were metal fences and some tape, but it was a good line. Then, as time drew closer they told us to start packing up, get stuff out of the way. A while after that we got up, got divided in groups of about 200 people to get in. At that moment, there was EXTRA security, checking INSIDE the line. Everyone had to show their number, those without had to either have a very damn good reason or they were kicked out to the back of the line.
It worked a treat. Ofcourse at the last moment some people snuck in, but you can't have it all.

Also, in Dublin we even got separated from the rest of the GA line outside(first bunch) and got wristbanded. Then more people were added in groups of about 100. That was all calm and collected, and everybody stayed where they were. I really do believe that's the way to go.

 

[ntalwar]

I don't really understand a lot of what you're saying. It happens in public places? Sure it does, on the venue grounds. I don't understand your point, here.

Some venues are in cities or are publicly owned. What legal authority does private security have on a public sidewalk or park?

Maybe the band would like people to trickle in at a more reasonable time, but I seriously doubt it. I'm sure they enjoy the hype and the sense of excitement, the huge "event-ness" that goes hand in hand with people lining up early for shows - it builds anticipation, and when others hear about it, they want to see the shows too. It's all part and parcel of concert and band promotion.

They don't encourage overnight camping though, which is illegal in many cases.

How is managing a GA line incredibly complex? PM could hire a couple of security people to tour along with them, they could be onsite to supervise the local security, and to make sure that these clusterfucks don't occur. It's a lot less complicated then you're making it sound. It could be very simple, really.

Again, it is LN who executes the show, not PM. PM manages band issues.
The same cluster would arise with private scurity, and there may be legal issues with venue security giving up control to outside security. Venue security is more familiar with their venue. In this case, there seemed to be a crowd control failure - a few hundred people surged forward. They probably needed dozens of extra guards to prevent that.

I doubt LN's security would show up earlier than the line starter or line starters. There are a lot of line issues that are judgment calls (e.g. when someone can return to the line or not). Some venues have multiple lines as well. In the end, it's a $55 ticket which can offer the best view in the house - I think some people lose sight of that.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

In the end, it's a $55 ticket which can offer the best view in the house - I think some people lose sight of that.

In Vancouver, I left the pit to check out the last two songs from the soundboard area. It was awesome there.