U2 360 Boxscore Discussion

[Popmartijn]

As stated before I dont think I would want to have u2 for my accounting..... Now I understand why we have bubbles in our economics since counting seats filled is not how you sellout a venue just like Goldman Sachs sold thier mortgage back secutities to all the innocent people.

It you had paid attention in this thread and read what people are writing, you would've known that it isn't U2 who is doing the 'accounting'. This is the general business practice. The Boss is doing the same.

At least the boss was proud enough to say only 4 out of 5 shows in NJ sold out..... 260,000 fans is quite a feat. Can u2 beat that in any ony city>?>

And as someone has shown here, The Boss is doing the same as U2. The actual capacity of Giants Stadium is much larger than reported by the BoxScore. The difference with U2 is that for that capacity, Bruce Springsteen still failed to sell out one of its concerts.

 

[U2FloridaFan]

The Tampa attendance is a record for the Tampa area and is just 542 tickets shy of being the record for the entire state of Florida. But this show was soldout weeks in advance so the only reason U2 did not set the state record was because the venue played was not large enough to do that.

The Florida record will no doubt be broken next year when U2 play Miami's LandShark Stadium which, for a football setup, can seat 75,000-76,500 (depending where you get that figure)...plus an additional 5-7,000 GA's would give U2 a commanding lead in the FL record dept.

 

[U2FloridaFan]

Thanks for the Boxscores!

The Dallas show attendance is obviously a record for a concert at the new Cowboys Stadium. It is not a record though for Dallas area or the state of Texas. U2 needed to get past 78,000 to set that record.

The Tampa attendance is a record for the Tampa area and is just 542 tickets shy of being the record for the entire state of Florida. But this show was soldout weeks in advance so the only reason U2 did not set the state record was because the venue played was not large enough to do that.


Big difference between POPMART Tampa and 360 Tampa:

U2 POPMART
November 10, 1997
Tampa, Florida
Houlihan's Stadium
GROSS: $893,865
ATTENDANCE: 17,776
SHOWS: 1
SELLOUTS: 0
Average Ticket Price: $50.29

U2 360
October 9, 2009
Tampa, Florida
Raymond James Stadium
GROSS: $6,399,375 (RECORD)
ATTENDANCE: 72,688 (RECORD)
SHOWS: 1
SELLOUTS: 1
Average Ticket Price: $88.04



Here is a another little comparison with Bruce Springsteen and Giants Stadium:

Bruce Springsteen: Working On A Dream Tour
September 30, October 2, 3, 8, 9, 2009
East Rutherford, New Jersey
Giants stadium
GROSS: $22,570,336
ATTENDANCE: 260,668 (capacity: 270,388)
SHOWS: 5
SELLOUTS: 4
Average Ticket Price: $86.59

Bruce Springsteen: Born In The USA Tour
August 18, 19, 21, 22, 31, & September 1, 1985
East Rutherford, New Jersey
Giants Stadium
GROSS: $6,946,380
ATTENDANCE: 396,936
SHOWS: 6
SELLOUTS: 6
Average Ticket Price: $17.50

You could also say that Springsteen avgd. 52,000/show on his most recent stint at Giants Stadium, whereas in 1985 he avgd. 66K/show...def a decrease in numbers from his peak popularity. U2 on the other hand avgd. 81K for their 3 Dublin shows and about the same avg. for their Giants stadium gigs. Any way you look at it, it's amazing. Popmart (can't even come close) and during the height of their popularity ZooTV (East Rutherford August 12-13, 1992 Giants Stadium GROSS: $3,270,000 ATTENDANCE: 109,000- although they did play a couple of weeks later at Yankee Stadium to another 100K plus fans over two shows) can't even compare...numbers-wise. I suppose if they had been in a 360 degree situation for Zoo TV, the numbers may have been better than this 360 tour-who knows. South American numbers should be excellent too when they hit the ground there next spring.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

As stated before I dont think I would want to have u2 for my accounting..... Now I understand why we have bubbles in our economics since counting seats filled is not how you sellout a venue just like Goldman Sachs sold thier mortgage back secutities to all the innocent people.

Well, then I guess you would not want Bruce Springsteen either. Notice the following:

Here is a another little comparison with Bruce Springsteen and Giants Stadium:

Bruce Springsteen: Working On A Dream Tour
September 30, October 2, 3, 8, 9, 2009
East Rutherford, New Jersey
Giants stadium
GROSS: $22,570,336
ATTENDANCE: 260,668 (capacity: 270,388)
SHOWS: 5
SELLOUTS: 4
Average Ticket Price: $86.59

Bruce Springsteen: Born In The USA Tour
August 18, 19, 21, 22, 31, & September 1, 1985
East Rutherford, New Jersey
Giants Stadium
GROSS: $6,946,380
ATTENDANCE: 396,936
SHOWS: 6
SELLOUTS: 6
Average Ticket Price: $17.50


Same VENUE, GIANTS stadium! Capacity per show in 1985, 66,156 , capacity per show in 2009 54,077. Thats a difference of MORE than 12,000 people for each show. Giants Stadium did not get any smaller in the 24 years since Bruce played the venue on the Born in The USA tour. If anything, seats have been added to Giants Stadium since 1985.


So, as has been stated before, EVERY ARTIST in the industry increases or reduces its capacity for various venues based on various circumstances including the promoters feeling about the artist ability to sell x capacity.

Doesn't Dallas stadium hold over 90,000.

The stadium area holds 75,000. But they sell tickets for people to sit in the Lobby and watch the football games on a TV screen and then count that as attendance.

As for people wanting U2 to have the only stadium tour to sell out every night.... NOT.....You have to be a beliver.... Not a realist... Strange world IMO>>>>

Most knowledgable people understand what a "sellout" means in the industry.

 

[robbrecon72]

Like I said in one of my previous posts, badu2fan has no idea what he is talking about..lol why does he bother coming on here and embarrassing himself?? just don't get it..and yes the dallas cowboys stadium has roughly 75,000 seats not 90,000. I was at the concert and the seats were full to the rim. was badu2fan there? i don't think he was. as far as Norman goes, they did not sell the seats in the top two stands on both sides of the stadium and in fact they were covered by a large tarp. the show will be a sellout because of what they did sell it was packed.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

I suppose if they had been in a 360 degree situation for Zoo TV, the numbers may have been better than this 360 tour-who knows.

In terms of concert demand, the band is more popular today than they were on ZOO TV. Their two shows at Giant Stadium on 360 were quick sellouts and came within 49,000 of the total capacity of the 4 stadium shows U2 did in the New York City area on ZOO TV. The last Yankee stadium show on ZOO TV had tickets remaining for months, so it appears that U2 peaked with those shows on ZOO TV, while with 360 the band has not hit that point yet in the New York City area.

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

There were still some empty seats in Norman, but can't we just accept the fact that an estimated 60k people in Norman for a rock concert on a sunday night is amazing!

 

[robbrecon72]

Yeah thats awesome for sure! They probably set the attendance record there for a concert if it was 60,000. Maoil, how many concerts do think they could play in south american if they really played every possible market to the max?

 

[vaz02]

Whats the economy like in South America at the moment ?

 

[robbrecon72]

I read that they have a rapidly developing economy and they are not hit has hard as as the rest of us with this recession. I could be wrong though.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

Yeah thats awesome for sure! They probably set the attendance record there for a concert if it was 60,000. Maoil, how many concerts do think they could play in south american if they really played every possible market to the max?

Hard to say, but I think the max with the 360 set up would be:

Mexico City 2
Monterrey 1
Rio 2
Sao Paulo 2
Buenos Aires 3
Santiago 1

But I think it will probably be more like this:

Mexico City 1
Monterrey 1
Rio 1
Sao Paulo 1
Buenos Aires 2
Santiago 1

 

[robbrecon72]

It would be cool if they played in Lima Peru maybe at the estadio nacional 45,574 X2 or estadio monumental U 80,093 X1

 

[cleazer]

Hard to say, but I think the max with the 360 set up would be:

Mexico City 2
Monterrey 1
Rio 2
Sao Paulo 2
Buenos Aires 3
Santiago 1

But I think it will probably be more like this:

Mexico City 1
Monterrey 1
Rio 1
Sao Paulo 1
Buenos Aires 2
Santiago 1

I seriously doubt U2 will play any South American concerts in Mexico.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

I seriously doubt U2 will play any South American concerts in Mexico.

Well, last time on tour, U2 combined their visit to Mexico with South America. Check out the Vertigo Tour in early 2006 and you will see what I mean.

February 12, 2006 Monterrey Mexico Estadio Tecnológico
February 15, 2006 Mexico City Mexico Estadio Azteca
February 16, 2006 Mexico City Mexico Estadio Azteca
February 20, 2006 São Paulo Brazil Estádio do Morumbi
February 21, 2006 São Paulo Brazil Estádio do Morumbi
February 26, 2006 Santiago Chile Estadio Nacional
March 1, 2006 Buenos Aires Argentina Estadio Monumental
March 2, 2006 Buenos Aires Argentina Estadio Monumental

All shows in Stadiums unlike the USA/Canada in 2005.

I guess a better term would be "Latin America".

 

[cleazer]

Some people are dense. Yes, I am well aware of where they played last tour. Why do you bother posting worthless facts?

It has already been all but officially announced that U2 will start their 2010 North American leg on May 30 at Estadio Azteca. It was also hinted that Mexico City would be the only Mexican stop on the 360 tour, so Monterrey seems pretty unlikely right now. (Obviously not official yet though.)

 

[U2FloridaFan]

Tut tut boys. We knew what Mao meant by South American. For all you geography buffs:

Basically on the 3rd leg, U2 will be doing a NA date (Mexico) and South America, then will roll into the next NA dates (continental US - as I doubt they will play Hawaii or Alaska...or any US territories for that matter...although San Juan would be interesting). Does that about cover it? If they do any Central American dates, NA would get the nod for those dates, too.

 

[cleazer]

Basically on the 3rd leg, U2 will be doing a NA date (Mexico) and South America, then will roll into the next NA dates (continental US - as I doubt they will play Hawaii or Alaska...or any US territories for that matter...although San Juan would be interesting). Does that about cover it?

??? Where are you getting this info from? That's contrary to everything we've heard over the past month or two.

Next year the North American leg (covering US, Canada, and Mexico) is supposed to run from approx May 30 to mid-late July. (With the just revealed Miami date on July 9 fitting in there perfectly.) The South American leg has been rumored to be either in the beginning of the year, in March, or after the European leg, in October/November.


Of course, for now it's all just various levels of rumors. Except for that Miami date that ticketmaster accidentally announced early.

 

[U2FloridaFan]

I was responding more to the fact that some people were complaining that Mao mis-wrote (is that a word) that Mexico was part of South America...not about actual dates and locations. The only location I know of for sure is Mexico (as per one of the truck drivers I spoke with in Tampa...at least one claw is being stored there). I would suspect however that South America will come before NA on the next leg as their seasons run opposite of ours and I don't think they would ship all that stuff to Europe then back to South America.

 

[phommel]

At least the boss was proud enough to say only 4 out of 5 shows in NJ sold out..... 260,000 fans is quite a feat. Can u2 beat that in any ony city>?>

yes they could. at this moment at least. If they would have added another crokePark date...or if they had lower tcicket prices. u2 grossed ~6,000,000 more in Crokepark with less people...

 

[ijwthstd]

As you can see, comparatively, The Who have sold far fewer records. Yet, how is it that they have managed to play to such huge numbers on their tours? I'm not saying they're better or worse than any of those other bands, I'm just saying, from an objective viewpoint, just in terms of record sales, it doesn't seem to make any sense.

The RIAA figures don't tell the whole story. They had several iconic songs that were FM staples (even if they didn't sell as 45's). They regularly had several songs in the top 10 or 20 in the annual listener voted best 500 songs ever polls every Memorial Day weekend on 95.5 KLOS.

They had a reputation in the 1970's as the greatest live band ever. That's why their ticket sales far outpaced record sales during that era. Especially since output after Who's Next (1971) was spotty at best. They did a lot of damage to that repuation with their reunion tours so now they merely a massively successful classic rock band. But once upon a time they were on the same level as the Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin, at least among young FM radio listeners from 1969 to the mid 1980's.

And to address a few other things I have read here.

And some people are overanalyzing what a sellout means. It means the show was reported as a sellout by the reporting entity, probably Live Nation, even if tickets are still available and gone unsold. Tough to do on Popmart when it was obvious the tour was not living up to previous expectations or on tours prior when each show was handled by a local promotor.

The odd thing about some of the Springsteen shows in 2007 like Boston and WDC is that those were tough tickets with shows sold out way in advance. Guess the ticket drops happened way too late for anyone to take advantage of them.

And Fleetwood Mac was not "relatively unknown" in 1976. They were touring behind a #1 album and paired up with The Eagles and other groups for many stadium & festival dates. My friend saw them on the 4th of July at Tampa Stadium that year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleetwood_Mac_(1975_album)

 

[ijwthstd]

I do believe AC/DC's concert did have seats in the field.

QUOTE]

Ac/dc had seats on the field?

Why?

It might have something to do with 3 people dying in Salt Lake City in 1991.

 

[hedge]

It might have something to do with 3 people dying in Salt Lake City in 1991.

oh, ok. excuse my ignorance there.

 

[phommel]

any new boxscore data today?

 

[robbrecon72]

the new boxscores should show up in about 1 1/2 hours from now. I'll put them on here if they do.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

And some people are overanalyzing what a sellout means. It means the show was reported as a sellout by the reporting entity, probably Live Nation, even if tickets are still available and gone unsold. Tough to do on Popmart when it was obvious the tour was not living up to previous expectations or on tours prior when each show was handled by a local promotor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleetwood_Mac_(1975_album)

Again, thats not the case at all. Its tickets released for purchase vs number of those tickets sold. If all tickets released for purchased are sold, the show is marked a sellout. Billboard Boxscore audits the results. This is the way its been done since at least 1976. Billboard Boxscore also certifies records for the venues.

For POPMART, take Mile High Stadium in Denver. Listed capacity for the show was 45,000 which was the number of tickets released for purchase. Number of tickets sold was a little over 28,000. But, if the band had sold all 45,000 tickets released for purchase, it would have been marked a sellout, despite the fact that the band soldout their ZOO TV show here at a 54,000 capacity level.

The true physcial capacity of the venue though is about 70,000 for a concert and even more than that in a 360 set up.

 

[ijwthstd]

Again, thats not the case at all. Its tickets released for purchase vs number of those tickets sold. If all tickets released for purchased are sold, the show is marked a sellout. Billboard Boxscore audits the results. This is the way its been done since at least 1976. Billboard Boxscore also certifies records for the venues.

For POPMART, take Mile High Stadium in Denver. Listed capacity for the show was 45,000 which was the number of tickets released for purchase. Number of tickets sold was a little over 28,000. But, if the band had sold all 45,000 tickets released for purchase, it would have been marked a sellout, despite the fact that the band soldout their ZOO TV show here at a 54,000 capacity level.

The true physcial capacity of the venue though is about 70,000 for a concert and even more than that in a 360 set up.

Do you work for Billboard? I really doubt any magazine has the resources to pore over pages of paperwork for up to 600 shows a week. And are they generating their own info or just licensing it from Pollstar (which I read weekly)? You are overcomplicating a rather simple matter. The fact that you've thrown out ridiculous falsehoods like saying Fleetwood Mac was "relatively unknown" in 1976 thows further doubt on your assertions.

Of course Live Nation is going to list this tour as 100% sold out, even if some shows are "only" 95%. They don't want any negative press that was associated with Popmart. Information is going to be tightly controlled. Within weeks of the Popmart tour starting, the story got away from the band and it became all about the economics, sort of like the Ishtar of the 1990's.

 

[Maoilbheannacht]

Do you work for Billboard? I really doubt any magazine has the resources to pore over pages of paperwork for up to 600 shows a week. And are they generating their own info or just licensing it from Pollstar (which I read weekly)? You are overcomplicating a rather simple matter. .

Actually, your the only one here thats confused. Billboard magazine list accurate weekly and year end charts that precisely list the biggest selling albums, singles, most played songs on the radio, by different radio formats, biggest selling albums by format or age, as well as the highest grossing shows per week. The magazine reports data that collected, checked and compiled by SOUNDSCAN for albums sales, BROADCAST DATA SYSTEMS for airplay, AMUSEMENT BUSINESS for concert attendance and gross. Amusement Business goes by a different name now.

Pollstar at least until recently only reported shows that were in the United States, Canada, and Mexico. Billboard Boxscore has been reporting concert grosses around the world as provided by Amusement Business since January 1995!

The fact that you've thrown out ridiculous falsehoods like saying Fleetwood Mac was "relatively unknown" in 1976 thows further doubt on your assertions.

LOL, actually this is a better reflection of where your coming from. I got the release of the album wrong by a year. I thought it was released in 1976 and given that it was the first successful, it would only be natural to assume that they were relatively unknown at the time. But as it happens it was released in 1975, so that had a year with ONE album doing well in the charts. Perhaps well known like Lada GaGa at this point, but obviously NOT a stadium headliner! The point being it was primarily an EAGLES show given how relatively new Fleetwood Mac was at the time.

Of course Live Nation is going to list this tour as 100% sold out, even if some shows are "only" 95%. They don't want any negative press that was associated with Popmart. Information is going to be tightly controlled.

The only thing that is tightly controlled is the number of tickets released for purchase. Again, a sellout is achieved IF the number of tickets released for purchase = the number of tickets sold.

If it was only a matter of listing every show as a sellout by the promoter EVERYONE would have their shows listed as sellouts.

Again, thats not how it works. Springsteen has dozens of shows this year not listed as sellouts, as well as some shows listed as sellouts, despite not having sold the maximum number of tickets physically possible for the venue.

The reason, several shows had tickets released for purchase that were not sold, while other shows sold all their tickets released for purchase, even though the number of tickets released did not match the full capacity of the venue.

Within weeks of the Popmart tour starting, the story got away from the band and it became all about the economics, sort of like the Ishtar of the 1990's.

The bands difficulty in selling tickets was already known LONG before the tour started on April 25, 1997. Most people knew U2 had a tough climb by the end of February. The first Tickets went on sale for POPMART the Friday after Ash Wendsday 1997.

 

[ijwthstd]

Yes, I know, you are talking in circles. And if, in the off chance, 46,000 wanted to attend, they would have.

Fleetwood Mac new in 1975/1976? Fleetwood Mac predates the Eagles by at least a few years and were a well known and established band by 1976. The Eagles were the biggest, but Fleetwood Mac wasn't far behind, even in the period you mentioned. They did several festival dates with The Eagles that year. At the Tampa, Florida show they played about 75 mins, hardly a set length for a somewhat obscure opener.

There were a lot more than 12 total stadium shows in the U.S. in 1976.

This article here -

The Year In Music 2003: How Billboard Compiles The Boxscore Charts | Marketing & Advertising > Marketing & Advertising Channels from AllBusiness.com

Makes it sound like they just accepted and published whatever the promotor tells them - without any auditing.

And I am well aware of what Billboard is. I don't listen to much popular music so I don't pay attention to the other charts but I go to upwards of 100 shows a year so I have a bit of interest in the concert business. I prefer Pollstar, just because it comes to the office so I can read it here for free.

Amusement Business appears to be gone. I now vaguely remember them but it seems they suffered the same fate as Performance Magazine.

"If it was only a matter of listing every show as a sellout by the promoter EVERYONE would have their shows listed as sellouts. "

And a lot do, when it's obvious it isn't.

 

[doctorwho]

The fact that you've thrown out ridiculous falsehoods like saying Fleetwood Mac was "relatively unknown" in 1976 thows further doubt on your assertions.

To be fair, while Fleetwood Mac was just starting to get known in 1976 - at least in the U.S. While they had been around for a while, it wasn't until 1975 that they had their first top 40 hit.

"Rumors" - released in 1977 - was their breakthrough. It also produced their first top 10 hit in late 1976 with "Go Your Own Way".

Therefore, I would contend that in 1976, Fleetwood Mac was very much an opening act, not a headliner. At the Rosebowl, Blackeyed Peas opened for U2. Peas have had their share of hit songs along with several recent #1 songs. But everyone knows that the Peas could not sell 96,000 seats. People were there for U2 and got to enjoy the Peas (or Snow Patrol or Muse, etc.) as a bonus. So while Fleetwood Mac may have had a few hits by 1976, really, it was the Eagles.

Now, if it were 1978, where "Rumors" spent almost all of 1977 at the top of the charts, then I'd say fans were really there for Fleetwood Mac.

 

[genesis199125]

So.........have the boxscores for this week been released yet?