US Presidential Election XII

[iron yuppie]

Originally Posted by BVS

It's not a blanket argument against, because I think we're far behind where we should be. But we should expect price increases, to not understand that is to not understand this subject. Now there are other factors that come in play as well, but a blanket national increase to 15 may not be the magic fix they think it is.

Well yes, of course inflation will happen. If wages don't correspond, that is symptomatic of some combination of consumer expectations and globalization pressures. I agree that a rapid, generalized increase in minimum wage is a problematic idea.

[BigMacPhisto]

I was never arguing that price increases wouldn't happen as they surely would, but that the value of the minimum wage never decreases as long as you tie it to the consumer price index. A $15 minimum wage will boost prices but then the next year you increase the $15 wage due to those price increases, so it is basically the same year-to-year.

Evidence of unemployment has shown that the minimum wage has no real effect and it actually increases employment and earnings for businesses that cater to these people, etc. I am in agreement that it hurts restaurants tremendously as the business model is literally just built on the simple model of wage and food costs versus what you're charging the customer. There's no way around the fact that many of these places would probably just have to shutter immediately although some of them would make up for a lot of the wage increases by customers being able to pay higher prices. But at the end of the day, it's not surprising because this sort of work is basically the least necessary in society (people don't need to eat out, per se) and is the first destination where automation is going to take over quickly for obvious reasons.

There's evidence that raising the minimum wage helps raise the wage floor for others, so the lower middle class in particular could expect a nice little boost. If they don't get one, they had better put up a stink or just switch to some easier job making nearly as much. That's kind of on the individual at that point.

For what it's worth, the federal minimum wage would have been over $11 an hour near the end of the sixties after you adjust for 2016 inflation. I think you could easily bump it up that high immediately and then stagger in the price increases on an annual basis. It's only the first major jump in these sort of things that really screws with the businesses that are built on cheap labor or barely getting by. After that, it's pretty nominal to go up a buck a year when you take into account inflation and the like.

[Dfit00]

If the tipping culture were to be eliminated, the entire restaurant industry would be wiped out in a second.

Restaurants literally force their customers to pay their wait staff based on a "service" that is paid based on performance, not choice. There is no way an average restaurant can secure a $15K-$30K annual average salary for every waiter they have working for them, apart from other staff and massive fixed and variable costs overhead.

Certainly the restaurant and all the service industry would be one of the most affected by a raise in the minimum wage but it does not encompass the entire raw effect to the economy as a whole. Some workers in different industries get benefited while others don't.

[Axver]

Originally Posted by Dfit00

If the tipping culture were to be eliminated, the entire restaurant industry would be wiped out in a second.

Funny, we have no tipping culture in Australia and a thriving restaurant industry.

Tipping is seriously one of the worst aspects of the US. Fuck you, restaurant owner, pay your own goddamn employees.

[LuckyNumber7]

Yeah that's an absurd statement. If tipping were eliminated, food item costs would rise and overall bill prices would remain the same. The additional 10-15% a restaurant would save from having to tip an employee is not what keeps them alive.

The only downfall is that you legitimately tend to get lesser service without people tipping. Mix that with the fact that higher end restaurants would fail to be lucrative 50k jobs for some employees... you'd definitely see prices go way up in order for restaurants to be able to uphold certain qualities of service. But, at the end of the day, the consumer's price doesn't change and that's what matters most for a business. How much cash is coming in the door.

[Axver]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

The only downfall is that you legitimately tend to get lesser service without people tipping.

Some people say this in Australia, but I really don't agree with them. I actually wasn't entirely comfortable with some service in the US. Are you really being nice to me, or are you just faking it to extract a little bit extra out of my wallet? At least here if the wait staff are nice to me (which is almost always), I know it's because they're being genuine.

Mix that with the fact that higher end restaurants would fail to be lucrative 50k jobs for some employees...

Maybe to some extent, but although we have no expectation of tipping here, at high end restaurants it is not an unusual practice, especially not at those targeting an international clientele. Most people won't tip, but the few who do will leave something sizeable. I know a couple of people who worked in such establishments and made just as much or more from tips as from their wages (I don't recall what their hourly rate was, but it would've been well above our minimum wage of $17.70).

[LuckyNumber7]

The answer to your question... yes they're just being nice for your money. Or they were strangely welcoming because they adored your accent. Who knows. I think you were probably thinking about it too much.

Having lived in both the US and the UK and also having done my fair bits of travel here or there, I can definitely attest to the overall dining experience being more attentive and efficient in the US. I certainly do think that equipping the consumer with some buying power changes not only how a waiting staff behaves, but also it changes the type of individual who maintains a waiting staff position. People in the US have careers waiting tables. More often in the UK I've noticed it's a summer job or part time position for someone young.

[Caleb8844]

Everyone in customer service jobs is being only being nice to you for your money (or their job security - same thing), tips or not. Not only do they not actually like us, they probably actively hate us


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[Headache in a Suitcase]

If you've ever worked in customer service you'd understand why. People are the worst

[mikal]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

If you've ever worked in customer service you'd understand why. People are the worst

Yep. I was once called a n*gger over the phone once. I politely told him that using that word is inappropriate and that I'm also white. He said "I don't care. You're still a n*gger".


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[DaveC]

i was once called the same thing over the phone by a redneck from arizona because i was only authorized to remove $600 of data and text overages off his daughter's phone, and not the full $2400 she racked up in one month, as he demanded. this was after i had spent 10 minutes arguing with my boss to try to get any amount i could authorized for the guy. you're welcome, bud.

[Moonlit_Angel]

That's charming .

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

If you've ever worked in customer service you'd understand why. People are the worst

Yep. My whole family has worked retail at some point, and my sister worked in fast food. We've all got our own horror stories of dealing with customers. When we lived in Colorado, my mom had to deal with two rich women who came into the Pier 1 store she worked at right at closing time, and from the way they were wandering around the store it was clear they weren't doing the whole, "Pop in real quick, look around, and leave" thing, that they were actually planning on staying there and properly shopping.

My mom kept trying to tell them the store was closing and get them to leave, and they started yelling at her and going on about how rich they were and how they had the right to go wherever they wanted, and they were going to call the manager (who wasn't there) and complain and so on.

My mom actually missed her first bus home because of them, and got home really late as a result, and by the time she did she was about in tears because of how nasty they were to her.

And when I worked at our local bookstore, I had the creepiest customer ever come in one day. He was clearly mentally off, so on the one hand I felt kind of bad for him, but...the way he was behaving just REALLY unsettled me, and I was so grateful when he left the store. I would be very scared if he ever got his hands on a gun, let's just put it that way.

I've had a few nice customers when working retail, mind, so it's not all nightmare stories. But yes, there are some really entitled, obnoxious people out there that can make that sort of work very dehumanizing very quickly.

On that note, for anyone who has worked in the customer service industry, there's a great book out there called, "The Customer is NOT Always Right" that's worth reading. I remember one story from that book about a woman who tried to return a used toothbrush to a store...and that wasn't the weirdest part of that story.

 

Turns out she somehow thought it was a pregnancy test that wasn't working right. Yeeeeeeeah.

[BEAL]

Originally Posted by mikal

Yep. I was once called a n*gger over the phone once. I politely told him that using that word is inappropriate and that I'm also white. He said "I don't care. You're still a n*gger".


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That would have been the best day of my life.


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[Oregoropa]

Found the guy who called you

https://youtu.be/PnO6ai0Ktro


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[iron yuppie]

Originally Posted by Axver

Are you really being nice to me, or are you just faking it to extract a little bit extra out of my wallet? At least here if the wait staff are nice to me (which is almost always), I know it's because they're being genuine.

I don't see what the motivation for being courteous could possibly matter. It's just an hour in a restaurant, not choosing a life partner or something.

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

Found the guy who called you

https://youtu.be/PnO6ai0Ktro


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It's cute how the right is trying to dodge Trump's ongoing ties with racists by bringing up Byrd.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Axver

Funny, we have no tipping culture in Australia and a thriving restaurant industry.



Tipping is seriously one of the worst aspects of the US. Fuck you, restaurant owner, pay your own goddamn employees.

I loved my month in Australia, but I didn't love the general indifference of servers in restaurants. I find the over-friendliness of a family chain restaurant to be unseemly, but on the whole, I find much better, attentive, and even knowledgable service in the US.

What grates waiters over here is when they get a table of internationals who feign ignorance of the tipping culture here. Like they've never read a guide book. My friend still talks about a big table of Icelandic women who ran up a $790 bill and left $800.

[Oregoropa]

Originally Posted by Diemen

It's cute how the right is trying to dodge Trump's ongoing ties with racists by bringing up Byrd.

On the subject of dodging you never responded to my comments on Trumps speech on page 20. Where you claimed the only policy presented in Trumps Wisconsin speech was increased law enforcement.

The Byrd video was a coincidental choice because in the video he says white n*ggers twice. Thought it was fitting for the phone call the poster received


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[corianderstem]

Ugh, a tipping conversation.

[DaveC]

well such a thing does tend to follow from a minimum wage conversation usually.