US Politics XII: shutting down Interference until @U2 agrees to pay for a firewall

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Headache in a Suitcase said:
He needs to

--do a better job of explaining how things will be paid for besides just saying he's going to tax the wealthy
--explain his record on guns
--explain the harassment issues his previous campaign apparently had
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That's what I want from him. My hesitations about Bernie have always stemmed from, 'how do you plan to do this?'

Jerry Dunk said:
No one gave a fuck about her website.

Centrists who claim to care about where the money is coming from for farther left policies are people who are fine with where we were under Bill Clinton and Obama.
.
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I mean... I did. It's why I voted for her. She had well thought out policies I could get behind.

And are you saying that a person who leans left would fall under your same assumption that policies don't matter to centrists? Because again, I definitely cared during the 2008 election as well and didn't like Obama as much as Hillary, because again, she had better outlined policies that made more financial sense, to me.

Blanket statements get nobody anywhere (even this one, I'm sure).
 
If everything is about being pragmatic, you’ll find yourself to be stuck in a local maximization with no way of searching a trade space for the true global optimally.

That’s why we operate on an incredibly complex insurance-based health system.
 
trojanchick99 said:
As much as I love Uncle Joe, I'd be super disappointed if he or Bernie are the nominees. I've just about had it with old white men.

That said, if they are indeed the nominees, I will support them, campaign for them and vote for them because I don't know if we survive 4 more years of 45.
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All of this. I think it would send a clear and strong message to have a woman and/or a minority beat Trump next year, and make it abundantly clear that his racism/sexism/xenophobia will not win in the end. But yes, there is absolutely no doubt which party will get my vote in the end.

(Seriously, if Trump gets four more years, I swear my hair will be white by the end of it all. He HAS to leave office as soon as humanly possible. If Mueller is ready to release his report, and he's doing so because it's properly wrapped up and all that good stuff, then please, by all means, share everything and let's get this ball rolling already.)
 
Moonlit_Angel said:
All of this. I think it would send a clear and strong message to have a woman and/or a minority beat Trump next year, and make it abundantly clear that his racism/sexism/xenophobia will not win in the end. But yes, there is absolutely no doubt which party will get my vote in the end.

(Seriously, if Trump gets four more years, I swear my hair will be white by the end of it all. He HAS to leave office as soon as humanly possible. If Mueller is ready to release his report, and he's doing so because it's properly wrapped up and all that good stuff, then please, by all means, share everything and let's get this ball rolling already.)
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True. As much as I think Biden would do very well against Trump, I would love to have a woman beat him. And love to have a woman president. Harris/Castro would be awesome. A black woman and a Latino sending Trump packing. Aaaahhhh

Also - just an IG post from Warren saying that she just officially announced yesterday. What the?!?! I feel like she’s announced multiple times already. And if it was her official announcement it wasn’t mentioned once on the news.
Strange.
 
AOC is starting to look worse and worse with this Amazon thing if I'm understanding the situation right. She just sounds like a Republican yelling trickle down with saying the 3 billion in non-existent tax revenue should go to the people.

Maybe I don't understand how this works as well as I think I do, but I'm pretty sure that's just pandering.
 
bono_212 said:
AOC is starting to look worse and worse with this Amazon thing if I'm understanding the situation right. She just sounds like a Republican yelling trickle down with saying the 3 billion in non-existent tax revenue should go to the people.

Maybe I don't understand how this works as well as I think I do, but I'm pretty sure that's just pandering.
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I’m not sure I follow what you’re saying? How does she sound like she’s yelling trickle down economics?

I don’t think she’s pandering at all... she’s acting. But I do think her anger is misplaced towards amazon rather than amazon’s enablers.
 
womanfish said:
If that's what you got that from what i wrote, I definitely didn't mean it to be that way. I emphasized that white candidates like Bill Clinton, and Biden both have very high regard and turnout among minority voters, particularly black voters.
I just think it's naive and dishonest to say that a good black or latino candidate isn't going to get a larger percentage of minority votes from the black or latino demographic. I preface it with the term "good" because I am assuming we can all agree a terrible candidate, like say Ben Carson, shouldn't even be part of a discussion like this.

I do believe that personality, charisma, ability to capture an audience and make them feel like you are there to fight for them genuinely, is more important than anything else. Without it, the candidate will struggle.

Case in point my poor girl Hillary. She had fairly strong support among the black community, but she has the charisma of a dinner plate. Maybe a fancy plate with a nice design it or something, but a dinner plate nonetheless.
She had brief moments of capturing a crowd, but beyond that, it was more a following of people that new she would actually be best at the job (like me) people that were excited for the first female president, and people that just were Dems that voted Dem. And in the end that wasn't enough.

It take a special candidate to reach a broad range of voters, from working class, to wealthier, to minority, to women, to younger voters. I don't know if any has ever captured all of them at once, but Bill Clinton probably came as close as anyone, and that was because he was a candidate from smack dab in the middle of America, lightly tinged southern accent, relatable to the working man, moderate and white enough for the left leaning republicans, boat-loads of charm, proactively worked for the minority vote, and felt comfortable and genuine doing it, brilliant and could capture crowds with ease. He had it. Obama was probably the second closest.

Then you have someone like Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. They both have the same... thing but on opposite sides of the spectrum. Both have over the top solid bases. If either of them told their bases to chop off their pinkie fingers and send them in as a donation, they would get hundreds of thousands of severed pinkies in the mail. They can say anything to their base and it will be believed, they can make any mistake and it is forgiven and explained away.
But Sanders appeals to mainly younger white voters, and a swath of white independent voters. Falls completely flat with minorities. Why? I don't really know other than people are drawn to certain personalities and that's just how it is. Possibly black voters are in general more moderate and pragmatic and aren't drawn in as easily to (some might say) pie in sky ideas that Sanders espouses. But in the end, it is personality that brings it home.

So who has "IT" this time around? thoughts?
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My biggest takeaway from this one is that you love the Clintons.
 
bono_212 said:
AOC is starting to look worse and worse with this Amazon thing if I'm understanding the situation right. She just sounds like a Republican yelling trickle down with saying the 3 billion in non-existent tax revenue should go to the people.

Maybe I don't understand how this works as well as I think I do, but I'm pretty sure that's just pandering.
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She needs to take a step back and rethink her media approach.

She can't be out there yelling about 3 billion dollars that could have been sent to schools or infrastructure when the 3 billion dollars never existed, and the only tax revenue that would have come in depended on, ya know, the deal.
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
I’m not sure I follow what you’re saying? How does she sound like she’s yelling trickle down economics?

I don’t think she’s pandering at all... she’s acting. But I do think her anger is misplaced towards amazon rather than amazon’s enablers.
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Sorry, I was saying that her talking about the 3 bil going to the people is like a Republican talking about trickle down and that I find to be pandering to her base.
 
bono_212 said:
Sorry, I was saying that her talking about the 3 bil going to the people is like a Republican talking about trickle down and that I find to be pandering to her base.
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I get what you’re saying about the pandering thing, to each their own, but I’m disagreeing about the trickle down thing.

If she were in support of trickle down economics, I would imagine she’d be glad that amazon isn’t paying any taxes. She’s sort of doing the opposite of trickle down economics here.
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
I get what you’re saying about the pandering thing, to each their own, but I’m disagreeing about the trickle down thing.

If she were in support of trickle down economics, I would imagine she’d be glad that amazon isn’t paying any taxes. She’s sort of doing the opposite of trickle down economics here.
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I don't think she's in support of trickle-down. I'm saying the statement felt analogous to when a Republican says trickle-down. Not that this was trickle-down in sheep's clothing.
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
I get what you’re saying about the pandering thing, to each their own, but I’m disagreeing about the trickle down thing.

If she were in support of trickle down economics, I would imagine she’d be glad that amazon isn’t paying any taxes. She’s sort of doing the opposite of trickle down economics here.
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She's saying that AOC selling her followers on this big pile of 3 billion dollars (that didn't exist) is a big steaming pile of horse shit, much like when Republicans try to sell their followers that this tax cut for the wealthy is so totally going to help you out.

She made a tax incentive sound like it was a tax cut or even a tax refund and used that as her selling point.
 
womanfish said:
Was me saying Hillary has the charisma of a dinner plate what tipped you off? You’re sharp.
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Yeah I’m so stupid I quoted the post where you tempered your weird obsession with them instead of the one where you just copy and pasted a wikipedia page.
 
womanfish said:
Also - just an IG post from Warren saying that she just officially announced yesterday. What the?!?! I feel like she’s announced multiple times already. And if it was her official announcement it wasn’t mentioned once on the news.
Strange.
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She held a rally in Lawrence MA on Feb 9 and announced her candidacy

25 seconds into the video




Maybe she had another beer (2nd in her life) yesterday and forgot about the rally.
 
IWasBored said:
Yeah I’m so stupid I quoted the post where you tempered your weird obsession with them instead of the one where you just copy and pasted a wikipedia page.
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Crazy that people actually do some background research on the candidates. I did the same for Bernie since I liked them both. I didn't love Hillary and knew that she had major issues connecting with voters, but I thought her experience would make her the best president in the end. I also thought Bill was an absolute disaster trying to "help" in 2016, and should have just stayed away. But think what you'd like.
 
Hewson said:
She held a rally in Lawrence MA on Feb 9 and announced her candidacy

25 seconds into the video




Maybe she had another beer (2nd in her life) yesterday and forgot about the rally.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I'm thoroughly confused. I thought she had announced before the 9th as well... Either way, she seems to be getting some decent crowds at her events, but doesn't look like she's getting the financial backing from donations at this point. And I'm guessing Bernie entering will probably hit her the hardest.

Also, Booker seems to be MIA lately, and I'd completely forgot that Gillibrand was even running. Do you think that Gillibrand and Gabbard will meet the threshold of 60,000 donations from individuals from at least 20 states in order to be included in the debates?
 
I guess getting so common it barely makes the news...

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/20/6964...d-mass-terrorist-attack-on-a-scale-rarely-see

In recent years, the government contends, Hasson has been on a weapons buying spree, collecting 15 firearms and more than 1,000 rounds of mixed ammunition — all of which were confiscated from Hasson's basement apartment last week.

During the raid, officials also discovered Hasson's computer, containing a spreadsheet that reportedly is a hit list of possible targets — high-ranking current and former Democratic politicians, activists, political organizations and media personalities.

In addition to Pelosi, Hasson was allegedly considering some type of violent assault on Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Sens. Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Kirsten Gillibrand and Richard Blumenthal, along with U.S. Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Maxine Waters and former House member, Beto O'Rourke. The spreadsheet list also included MSNBC hosts Chris Hayes and Joe Scarborough, as well as Don Lemon and Van Jones from CNN.
 
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