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Old 10-30-2017, 04:44 PM   #301
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explains the delay of SOE

They were under investigation
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Old 10-30-2017, 05:03 PM   #302
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So the question is; does this snowball or will there be falling on swords left and right?

If it does snowball, does the gop convince him to resign? That seems like the only way they survive and get anything accomplished.
I know this is 1000 pages ago, but can you imagine being a sadder historical footnote than being the guy who fell on a sword for Donald Trump?
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Old 10-30-2017, 05:06 PM   #303
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Amazing to follow GOP/Trump supporters on this.

It's a witch hunt against Trump. Which makes sense, cause the Dems are so freaking powerful that they have lost seats at the State and Federal level over the last 8 years, plus they lost the POTUS election.....yet still somehow ruin everything for the GOP. DEEP STATE!!!

Manafort's crimes were well before joining the Trump Campaign. This is why they let him go, he was a bad guy.

This is Clinton and DNC's fault, as Manafort was really working for them. They were part of the bankroll of the Dossier.

This is just a means to silence the liberals who've been needing something from this case. Trump is clean, and while these two will most likely go to jail, it's all that will come out of this investigation.

The press briefing is going to be nothing but smugness, blame to Obama/Clinton, and denial.
This was my Facebook (I am old) post today. It was basically "I make few political posts because family/friends from both sides, blah blah, but as you are watching the events of the next few days unfold, remember there isn't a liberal ANYWHERE NEAR this process. Not even close. The guy executing this is a stalwart Republican with more bonafides than the cabinet combined. So before you search for that website that gives you the perfect cut and paste response about why this is a sham, or start the "whatabouts", remember this is right wing busting right wing, libtards are nowhere to be seen in this process, and this is the "winning" team, so worrying about what the losers did is pointless. You can't vacate when you didn't win the title."
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Old 10-30-2017, 05:24 PM   #304
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I know this is 1000 pages ago, but can you imagine being a sadder historical footnote than being the guy who fell on a sword for Donald Trump?


The winning by technicality Trump voter?

His current wife?

Every evangelical that sold their soul for a treasonous sexual assaulter?
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Old 10-30-2017, 05:37 PM   #305
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This was my Facebook (I am old) post today. It was basically "I make few political posts because family/friends from both sides, blah blah, but as you are watching the events of the next few days unfold, remember there isn't a liberal ANYWHERE NEAR this process. Not even close. The guy executing this is a stalwart Republican with more bonafides than the cabinet combined. So before you search for that website that gives you the perfect cut and paste response about why this is a sham, or start the "whatabouts", remember this is right wing busting right wing, libtards are nowhere to be seen in this process, and this is the "winning" team, so worrying about what the losers did is pointless. You can't vacate when you didn't win the title."
Well said .

The "whatabout-ism" especially kills me. So let's say that Hillary was indeed guilty of all the stuff the GOP claims she was guilty of. How and why, exactly, does that excuse Trump's behavior, then? Wouldn't Trump supporters want their guy to be better than her, in that case, instead of be like, "Well, she got away with it, why can't he?" Using "whatabouts" is pretty much an admission that you know your guy is shit, and you just don't care because hey, everyone's shit, right?


(As for your comment about political bias, it deals with one party targeting the other in my example, but I've always found it weird that GOP supporters never stopped to think about the fact that the investigations against Hillary have been Republican-led-i.e., free of any potential party bias-and yet even they still couldn't seem to find anything to nab her on.

So wouldn't one think that would give them pause? I mean, if I were a GOP supporter and saw that my party couldn't convict Clinton of anything she was being accused of, to me, that would likely mean one of two things: 1) that Clinton could somehow pay them off to prevent them from punishing her, or something to that effect, which wouldn't exactly speak well to the Republicans' ability to stand up to her as a party...

...or 2) as we've learned, they really couldn't find anything on her. I'm just really curious how GOP supporters manage to explain that aspect of their party's failed investigations into Hillary away.)

And yes, I know, I'm trying to apply logic to situations that don't allow for it.

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I hope that the GOP looses so badly in the midterms that trump supporters have no choice but to shut the hell up and crawl back under the rock they came from. If the GOP looses majority next year, trumps days are certainly numbered and this whole nightmare will be but a bad memory in time. But sadly I am not at all confident that the GOP will loose many seats. Cos you know, no one in their right mind thought trump would ever become president, yet here we are.
Oh, I don't think Trump's supporters will hide away and shut up. I'd love for them to finally come to the table and go, "Yeah, we made a major mistake, he was a crap president", but I'm not holding my breath on that happening. I think they'll still be sharing their conspiracy theories about this being a witch hunt and whatnot for years to come. Hopefully, they just won't have any political power anymore, and their theories will be confined to the edges of the internet world at best.

I certainly don't think the GOP will move to get rid of Trump out of the sheer goodness of their hearts and for our country's well-being, as they would've obviously done that by now if they really gave a damn. I guarantee that if they actually do bother to support efforts to impeach Trump, or use the 25th Amendment, or something to that effect, it'll solely be in a desperate attempt to save their own asses and have a chance of being re-elected next year.

If that happens, though, I think you're right to be afraid that voters could potentially fall for their, "I was against Trump from the start"/"I wanted to speak out" BS. And in that case, I think we need to do our damndest to make it clear that no, these guys were perfectly content to stay as quiet and look the other way for as long as possible, and they deserve to be called out and held responsible for their silence.

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I'm trying to temper any hope.

I still think Trump could murder someone on the White House lawn, and the GOP wouldn't impeach.
Depending on how deep and how close this investigation and these indictments continue to go, I'm thinking the possibility of Trump just flat out resigning looks more and more likely at this point. Like I've said before, knowing him, he could easily find some way to spin a resignation in his favor.

If that happens, though, then we have to hope that there's some chance that this investigation will make it so Pence can go with him. That's the part I'd be most concerned about at this point.
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:31 PM   #306
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Two charges...



Conspiracy Against The United States
isn't that like treason?
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Old 10-30-2017, 07:01 PM   #307
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isn't that like treason?


I do believe treason would require a war.
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Old 10-30-2017, 07:07 PM   #308
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I do believe treason would require a war.
it's kind of an act of war though, an attack on US institutions and systems by conspiring with non-US entities, not to mention cyber-war
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Old 10-30-2017, 07:08 PM   #309
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This is a very lengthy, but nonetheless extremely interesting thread:

https://twitter.com/sethabramson/sta...15577190010880
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Old 10-30-2017, 07:25 PM   #310
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I do believe treason would require a war.
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:04 PM   #311
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This is a very lengthy, but nonetheless extremely interesting thread:

https://twitter.com/sethabramson/sta...15577190010880


Stuff like this really gets my hopes up. But I’m trying not to treat it as fact, or even possible.

It makes sense what he wrote. But he’s just speculating. Albeit, logically
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Old 10-31-2017, 02:47 PM   #312
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Old 10-31-2017, 02:57 PM   #313
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Yes, this low level coffee guy, who was VOLUNTEER sure did have access to a lot of powerful people and meetings. He was on the National Sec team, and was flying all over the world to meet with other ambassadors. I think Mueller scared the fucking shit out of him, and he turned.

There is rumor that he was wired as well during his cooperation. Doesn't mean a literal mic taped to his chest, but instead EMAILS!, Texts, VM, Phone Calls, Social Media all could have been set up by the Feds to track his communications.

And John Kelly is an idiot. If only the black slaves had been willing to compromise a little more with their white owners, war could have been avoided.

Just like all those confederate statues that went up right at the time the war ended....or wait, they went up decades later, some even as recent as 50-60 years ago to spite the civil rights movement.

The indictment docket is still sealed btw, despite Manafort and Co. turning themselves in.....
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:11 PM   #314
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John Kelly is perfect for Trump - little knowledge of history and the arrogance to not apologize. He's basically like a more disciplined Trump but with all the same sorts of drawbacks. Gross.

I was reminded today on a radio show of how much Trump bragged about how small his campaign staff was. That he only had 70 or so people working for him whereas Hillary had 700. Remember, this used to be a reason that Republicans doubted his ability to secure the nomination - they thought he had no organized ground game (he didn't), not enough experienced campaign advisors (also true) and would falter before people like Ted Cruz and Jeb Bush who had the infrastructure in place for months or years. So now we are meant to believe that in this small campaign staff neither Manafort (who was the campaign manager) nor Papadopoulos (an "oil and gas advisor, excellent guy") are guys nobody in the Trump campaign ever really heard of or had anything to do with.

Okay.
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:50 PM   #315
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So now we are meant to believe that in this small campaign staff neither Manafort (who was the campaign manager) nor Papadopoulos (an "oil and gas advisor, excellent guy") are guys nobody in the Trump campaign ever really heard of or had anything to do with.

Okay.
Yeah. It's not like he ever was close to Tump.


(That's Papadopoulos being highlighted with Trump on the other end of the table)
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:55 PM   #316
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Not a lot of coffee on that table
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Old 10-31-2017, 04:40 PM   #317
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Apparent deliberate truck attack in lower Manhattan.
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Old 10-31-2017, 04:53 PM   #318
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Reporting 6 dead.

Driver is in custody, may have been linked to a shooting earlier in the day?
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Old 10-31-2017, 04:58 PM   #319
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Looks like driver plowed down bike path, then got out of car with either a gun or a fake gun and was shot by NYPD.

I've been up and down that bike path a million times.
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Old 10-31-2017, 05:02 PM   #320
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My sister has lived in three different buildings right there on the west side highway. She's eight months pregnant and with a 1 year old, and walks that route to and from work. Luckily she's pregnant and wouldn't be walking at that hour.
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