United States of Entropy

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by anitram

The only thing that surprises me about the Tea Party crowd is that they continue to learn absolutely nothing from their political and electoral blunders.

It's seems that one of the primary characteristics of the Tea Party crowd, and I've seen this born out personally with some family members, is an almost fanatical belief that no matter what the results of their efforts are, the fault is never theirs. Or rather, the only fault they're willing to accept is not being unbending enough. Which is why the narrative for this utter and total defeat of their tactics is being spun as "well if we'd just been more firm" or "if those spineless Senate Republicans hadn't betrayed us."

They've completely isolated themselves from reality.

[nbcrusader]

16 Things We Learned from the Government Shutdown

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by Diemen

It's seems that one of the primary characteristics of the Tea Party crowd, and I've seen this born out personally with some family members, is an almost fanatical belief that no matter what the results of their efforts are, the fault is never theirs. Or rather, the only fault they're willing except is not being unbending enough. Which is why the narrative for this utter and total defeat of their tactics is being spun as "well if we'd just been more firm" or "if those spineless Senate Republicans hadn't betrayed us." They've completely isolated themselves from reality.

I've seen this belief too. It's rather odd, and amusing, to see these people complain about the lack of responsibility these days, yet they lack responsibility themselves.

[Irvine511]

This Baby Bargains Like The Tea Party - YouTube

[BEAL]

But spending is out of control. Only way to stop it is destroy everything!!

Am I missing something or could the GOP/Tea propose amendments to the existing ACA to try and change the parts of the law they find horrible?

And not just throw it out? But offer alternatives? I am positive that those on the Right have some ideas, and probably good ones that can take a average law and make it better.

But we can't compromise anymore. It's all or nothing. And really just shows a very deep hatred (and I would argue racist) towards Obama.

Why make the law better, and even try to take some credit for it , when you can just try and make sure Obama fails.

[PhilsFan]

Originally Posted by nbcrusader

16 Things We Learned from the Government Shutdown

Oh good, a wannabe-Buzzfeed article by a conservative think tank. I'm sure this a great discussion starter. Thanks for bringing this into the conversation.

[BEAL]

Have we really learned anything tho? Obama grew balls and held to his word (after giving in too much on the sequester) and the GOP still thinks their problem was not being firm enough.

We will go through this again and again and again until a GOP takes Oval Office. That probably won't happen anytime soon, so what's it going to take to break this cycle of shit?

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by BEAL

Have we really learned anything tho? Obama grew balls and held to his word (after giving in too much on the sequester) and the GOP still thinks their problem was not being firm enough.

We will go through this again and again and again until a GOP takes Oval Office. That probably won't happen anytime soon, so what's it going to take to break this cycle of shit?

It going to take some conservatives with the guts to stand up to the tea party's nonsense.

In other words, looks like we're stuck with this for a while.

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by nbcrusader

16 Things We Learned from the Government Shutdown

3. WW2 veterans aren’t welcome at the National Memorial, but Democrats will host a rally for illegal immigrants at the National Mall – while lecturing citizens about “respect.”

8. Democrats will call Republicans “anarchists,” “arsonists,” “terrorists,” “extremists,” “hostage-takers,” “jihadists” and “suicide bombers” if the GOP doesn’t completely capitulate, but would never dare call Islamist terrorists that.

13. The stock market doesn’t really care what Washington does, as long as the Fed keeps raining cash.

Outstanding and dead-on.

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by BEAL

But spending is out of control. Only way to stop it is destroy everything!!

Limited government is not anarchy. Balanced budgets are not anarchy. Obeying the Constitution is not anarchy.

Am I missing something or could the GOP/Tea propose amendments to the existing ACA to try and change the parts of the law they find horrible?

Last week the House passed amendments to;
1) give all Americans the same one year exemption that Obama (illegally) granted to big business.
2) to delay the medical device tax
3) a provision eliminating the Healthcare Exchange subsidies that Obama (illegally) gave to Congress, their staff and other Capital employees.

They all were ignored by the Democratic senate.

But we can't compromise anymore. It's all or nothing. And really just shows a very deep hatred (and I would argue racist) towards Obama.

Yes, it's all about the color of the man's skin; could not possibly be his ideas, politics, lawlessness or polarizing rhetoric.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Limited government is not anarchy. Balanced budgets are not anarchy. Obeying the Constitution is not anarchy.

But shutting down the government and threatening global economic collapse because you can't get your way after getting clobbered in an election is.

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Obeying the Constitution is not anarchy.

Obeying the Constitution by shutting down the government over a constitutionally upheld law you don't like?

Right.

[martha]

Originally Posted by Diemen

Obeying the Constitution by shutting down the government over a constitutionally upheld law you don't like?

Right.

Upheld by a conservative Supreme Court doncha know.

[U2DMfan]

13. The stock market doesn’t really care what Washington does, as long as the Fed keeps raining cash.

Originally Posted by INDY500

Outstanding and dead-on.

You quote only three items and you pick THAT one? If only it were true.

Washington behaving like assholes caused this:

United States federal government credit-rating downgrade of 2011 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which served as a major cause of this:

August 2011 stock markets fall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And we were threatened by Fitch recently with a downgrade because of similar shit related to Washington's inability to get their act together.
Fitch warns it may cut U.S. credit rating from AAA | Reuters

[anitram]

Originally Posted by U2DMfan

You quote only three items and you pick THAT one? If only it were true.

Washington behaving like assholes caused this:

United States federal government credit-rating downgrade of 2011 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Which served as a major cause of this:

August 2011 stock markets fall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And we were threatened by Fitch recently with a downgrade because of similar shit related to Washington's inability to get their act together.
Fitch warns it may cut U.S. credit rating from AAA | Reuters

INDY lives in an alternate economic reality.

In the week leading up to the weekend in advance of the August 2nd deadline in 2011, the S&P 500 declined by 3.9% and was off a total of 6.8% before an agreement was signed into law. It is also worth noting that during this period, bond yields and oil price also experienced material declines.

[nbcrusader]

Furloughed government workers could be paid twice in Oregon

And all Federal workers will get a pay raise after their paid vacation.

[nbcrusader]

U.S. debt jumps $300 billion — tops $17 trillion for first time

The Obama legacy grows....

[Irvine511]

I do think the refusal to pore over the Bush-Cheney fiasco honestly remains a major block to reform on the right. The rational ones must know that Bush’s Medicare D was far more expensive than the Affordable Care Act, and, unlike the ACA, was never budgeted. They must know that domestic spending exploded under Bush, even as he refused, unlike Reagan before him, to budge on his ruinous tax cuts. They know they cannot attack Obama’s allegedly imperial presidency without confronting the much more expansive claims for executive power made by Cheney et al. They also must know somewhere in their heads that the debt we now have was not created by Obama. He just had to manage it in the depths of the worst recession since the 1930s. The debt is a function of tax cuts we couldn’t afford, wars we couldn’t afford, a new entitlement we couldn’t afford and a recession caused by an unregulated Wall Street run amok.

And on current spending, they must know that Obama’s record – partly thanks to them – is of serious deficit reduction, year after year, from over 10 percent of GDP to just over 3 percent predicted in 2016. Because acknowledging this reality means self-criticism, they cannot do it (and I don’t mean criticism of other Republicans, but of your own responsibility for the mess). But until they engage in self-criticism, especially of the Bush-Cheney administration, they cannot get to a place where they don’t need rigid adherence to purist ideology to keep their own worldview afloat. And that’s the only place – a pragmatic, sane, constructive, reality-based place – where they can rebuild their party and their message. The longer the suppression of the truth about Bush the longer the dysfunction will last.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/...admit-reality/

[anitram]

Originally Posted by nbcrusader

And all Federal workers will get a pay raise after their paid vacation.

Compassionate conservatism at its best.

Force people out of work for no fault of their own, have them sit at home for almost 3 weeks worrying about how they will pay the bills and feed their families, and then refer to it as a paid vacation.

Only from a Republican.

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by nbcrusader

Furloughed government workers could be paid twice in Oregon

And all Federal workers will get a pay raise after their paid vacation.

I'm not sure how I feel about the furloughed workers getting unemployment plus back pay for not working during the shutdown, but to call it a paid vacation is downright cruel.