Tollerance

[A_Wanderer]

Why do I get a little bit sick of blanket tollerance for people regardless of what they say - this is why.

The leader of a Vancouver mosque attended regularly by a local man reported killed in Chechnya has preached the virtues of jihad and called Jews "the brothers of monkeys and swine."

and theres more

"The prophet . . . said the final hour will not be established until such time as the Muslims will battle and will fight against the Jews," Kathrada says.

"Then what will happen? Listen to the good news after that. The prophet . . . says that the stone and the tree will say 'oh Muslim, oh slave of Allah, that verily behind me is a Jew. Then come and kill him.' "

Kathrada, who works out of the Dar al-Madinah Islamic Society mosque in east Vancouver, said Thursday he could not remember when he gave these talks.

"If it's on there and my name is on it then I must have. I don't recall the date," he said.

Kathrada refused to explain the meaning behind the tirade against Jews.

"I guess if you heard the lecture then it should be clear to you," he said.

But he defended his characterization of Jews as treacherous monkeys and pigs.

"I guess no rougher than what is used against us," Kathrada said. "It's in our Qur'an."

http://www.mytelus.com/news/article.do?pageID=canada_home&articleID=1745924

I have no problem with people worshipping freely as long as it does not hurt anybody - but this stuff is inciting violence - I know that it is the vast minority however that minority can do real damage and should not be tollerated.

Do people have some constructive ideas about how to deal with these people (these people are violent Islamic fundamentalists, not Muslims as a broader religious - not ethnic - group).

 

[Se7en]

Do people have some constructive ideas about how to deal with these people (these people are violent Islamic fundamentalists, not Muslims as a broader religious - not ethnic - group).

i think that the people who perpetuate these sort of ideas are more or less sociopaths. i'm not convinced going after the leaders of these movements is going to do anything. i think a better alternative would be to improve the lives of the people who are taken advantage of by these sickos and give them an alternative ideology to be inspired by.

 

[speedracer]

Re: Re: Tollerance

i think a better alternative would be to improve the lives of the people who are taken advantage of by these sickos and give them an alternative ideology to be inspired by.

 

[Se7en]

i'll take whiskey over islam anyday.

 

[verte76]

People with ideas like this are psychopathic. They have serious issues--perhaps an inferiority complex, or some other major insecurity. It's like the Ku Klux Klan in the U.S. Most, if not all, Klansmen have inferiority complexes and they have to put someone "beneath" them to feel good about themselves. Thus they put people who are not white beneath them. The same is true of anyone else who is bigoted against any group of people who aren't like them. It's all so disgusting.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Very simple to name them psycopathic - I personally think that they are very devout believers, they know that they are right and have a divine calling to this. The worst part is that many follow and believe with just as much zeal - enough even to embrace death over life. This is the line that shows the difference between religion and death cult.

You may look to God and find love - they look in the same direction and find evil. Both come out of the same place, the depths of our humanity, or lack thereof.

 

[nbcrusader]

Do people have some constructive ideas about how to deal with these people (these people are violent Islamic fundamentalists, not Muslims as a broader religious - not ethnic - group).

These people are not psychopaths; they are leaders in their religion. The only true solution can come from the followers. Those who actively support these leaders or who passively allow them to continue must turn and actively shut them out.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Flipside being that these are the guys holding all the keys for change to happen. The only cycle of violence I see here is the repeated calls to violence coming out of their mouths.

 

[BVS]

Re: Re: Tollerance

i think a better alternative would be to improve the lives of the people who are taken advantage of by these sickos and give them an alternative ideology to be inspired by.

I agree 100%. If you take away the uneducated, poor, and desperate, groups like the KKK or terrorist groups wouldn't exist. It would just be a few extremists looking for someone to do their work.

 

[nbcrusader]

I doubt Saudi terrorists are looking for a way out of their "impoverished" life.

 

[BVS]

I doubt Saudi terrorists are looking for a way out of their "impoverished" life.

Oh but we're not going after them, they must be harmless.

So everyone in Saudi Arabia is rich? I'm sure this is what they think of Americans as well.

 

[nbcrusader]

The only poor is Saudi are the immigrant workers.

 

[BVS]

The only poor is Saudi are the immigrant workers.

I've had family that has lived there and this isn't exactly true.

 

[nbcrusader]

This is the picture painted by my wife's family who lived there for a number of years.

Saudi has created its own problem with a middle class that has no need to work. Lots of young, idle men.

 

[BVS]

Yes there is a lot of that.

 

[iota]

The word "tolerance" is used wrongly today. It actually means to tolerate differing viewpoints, but not to see them as equally valid. Today it seems that nobody has ever heard of the law of noncontradiction, and tolerance means seeing all views as equally valid, which is ridiculous.

 

[Ft. Worth Frog]

I disagree that terrorism arises from the depths of poverty. Many terrorists and their leaders are rather well off and pretty educated. Bin Laden's family is wealthy, and if I am not mistaken, the 9/11 terrorists were not picked from poverty.

About the KKK, their followers are not necessarily those who are disadvantaged. The Klan had two zeniths of power-the late 1860s/early 1870s and the 1920s. The original Klan was started by people who were more or less southern "gentleman" as a social club. It then went awry as they noticed their society undergoing immense change during Reconstruction. During the 1920s, the move arose more out of nativism after the Red Scare than any sort of economic upheaval and then disappeared as many cities and towns grew tired of their corruption and extremism. The Klan now is not even worth talking about as they are relegated to Jerry Springer appearances. I think many people discount the power of religion and philosophy as motivation for action whether it be violent or peaceful.

 

[BVS]

I disagree that terrorism arises from the depths of poverty. Many terrorists and their leaders are rather well off and pretty educated. Bin Laden's family is wealthy, and if I am not mistaken, the 9/11 terrorists were not picked from poverty.

Yes the leaders are usually very wealthy and/ or educated but the ones usually strapping the bombs to themselves are not. Do you honestly think Bin Laden would do that himself? I agree there are some that are just brainwashed, but the majority of the followers are picked out of poverty.

Do you think we would have gangs without poverty?

 

[A_Wanderer]

But terrorism is not made up of gangs, Islamofascism is most definitely not a gang like behaviour.

Mohammed Atta was well off and educated, most of the international terrorists are wealthy individuals - even those that die for their cause. If you want the classic example of poverty not being the principle factor in this you can see the PLO Arab suicide homocide bombers, the mean family wealth of the bombers is higher than that of the average PLO Arab family, they are not driven by poverty and hopelessness they are driven to it by careful conditioning by the Arab media and their religious leaders. This is motivated by religious hatred - the only problem for us is that we have no comprehension of this hatred and the media "protect" us from the truth in the name of tollerance.