Toddlers who dislike spicy food 'racist'

[corianderstem]

They might not understand why they're hating, but I think they can hate ... and I would take a gander that they hate because they were taught to do so.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by vaz02

To truely hate something you must have a rational understanding of the situation.

Um, no, that is, in essesnse the defintion of ignorance, to not have a rational understanding.

[vaz02]

I understand the point, but i can rationally understand the current economic situation and still hate it.

[A_Wanderer]

You seem to be assuming that hatred is predicated on ignorance. One can make an informed judgement and hate an ideology. Hatred can be perfectly rational, and at times useful.

Race is different than ideology because it is an innate quality, and has little bearing in actual ability (although racial variation does exist it isn't cause for discrimination).

[BVS]

Originally Posted by vaz02

I understand the point, but i can rationally understand the current economic situation and still hate it.

You're confusing me.

First you said HAVE to have a rational understanding in order to hate. Now you say you understand.

Then you go on to give an example of how one CAN have a rational understanding and still hate.



I think one can hate with or without a rational understanding...

[A_Wanderer]

If your talking to be I used can not HAVE.

I can think of a few examples, heres an obvious one.

The views of the Muslim Brotherhood are antithetical to mine, I find the concept that a state must be in line with God dehumanising and the agenda that such groups pursue frequently angers me.

I hate what such groups stand for, and since I am not a Christian I can say I hate them for what they do.

[BVS]

I quoted vazo2

[maycocksean]

Originally Posted by corianderstem

They might not understand why they're hating, but I think they can hate ... and I would take a gander that they hate because they were taught to do so.

Hate isn't all that deep. It doesn't take some great amount of high-level thinking and "understanding" to hate.

Kids can hate, and when hatred takes the form of racism, that's generally taught.

[unforgettableFOXfire]

I think there's something of an equivocation going on about definitions of 'hate' here that might be causing confusion.

One is 'hate' as the manifestation of ignorance and fear of what you don't understand.
Two is 'hate' as the outrage and consternation with a viewpoint understood and deemed to be wrong, invalid, reprehensible, etc. yet held anyway.

In case one someone who 'hates' would hate the person for a reason non-essential to the person, and in case two the person who 'hates' would hold hatred of the principle and the fervor of those who hold it but not the people themselves. There's not as much wrong with the latter, since the exploration of truth requires the eradication of errors and non-truths. Some of the more insipid and insidious haters do an excellent job at blurring those lines, though -- but I'd say most (if not all) of those people aren't children.

[yolland]

BVS, could you please cut back on all the and ? It starts to have a similar effect to that of certain posters who always SHOUT!!!! after awhile.



I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable applying the term "racist" to the behavior of actual preschool-age children (early 5 and under), which seems to be what the article was referring to. I guess mostly because racism, at least as I understand it, requires grasping the notion of social 'categories' into which people can be divided, and it hasn't been my experience as a parent that children that young reliably have this grasp (an 8-year-old, on the other hand, absolutely would). But it's all very much of a continuum, so it's hard to say; I do think for example that many children towards the upper end of the preschool age range show an awareness of stigma--that certain traits cue for 'open season' on kids who have them in a way that others don't--and even though they may not quite grasp the implicit system underlying that yet, still, it's clearly a precursor. (White kids that age don't call other white people n-----, nor do they taunt other kids for having non-stigmatized traits like blond hair or green eyes, so there's clearly something a little more conscious and intentional than incomprehending parroting going on when they use racial slurs.) And certainly many 4-year-olds for instance are quite capable of intentionally humiliating other children and enjoying it, or of gloating that they're 'better than' others somehow. So all the ingredients are there, in a sense.

I don't think coming to be aware of those social categories is bad in itself; on the contrary, you can't usefully talk to children about racism if they're too young to understand what race is. It's certainly a more complex concept than simply noticing that people have varying skin colors, which happens much earlier. But it's something parents should discuss with their children at least before they start regular school, if not well before--don't wait until and if they use, or receive, their first racial slur themselves. Just because you haven't heard your children articulate negative associations with people who are black, South Asian, overweight, whatever, doesn't mean they aren't forming them...often with help from adults who don't explicitly articulate those things either, but convey them by reacting to and treating certain 'kinds' of people differently.

"Hate" is such a strong word; I think introducing that into it might be misleading, too. Not that plenty of children and adults who hold racist attitudes aren't clearly hateful--but I don't think it's always a question of felt hostility towards some collective they belong to.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by yolland

BVS, could you please cut back on all the and ? It starts to have a similar effect to that of certain posters who always SHOUT!!!! after awhile.

My apologoies, but I was genuinly confused.