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#181 | |
War Child
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Frontios
Posts: 758
Local Time: 10:35 AM
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#182 | ||||||||||||||
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 09:35 AM
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Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand. 1 Samuel 2:2 "There is no one holy [a] like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God. 2 Samuel 7:22 "How great you are, O Sovereign LORD! There is no one like you, and there is no God but you, as we have heard with our own ears. Isaiah 43:10-11 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 44:6 “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.” Isaiah 44:8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." Mark 12:32 "Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. Romans 3:30 “since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.” 1 Corinthians 8:4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. I ask you yet again, how do you reconcile that? Your answers are insufficient so far. Quote:
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He’s essentially saying “Leads to” not “we must work”. He’s comparing godly sorry to worldly sorrow. Otherwise, you’re saying we must work out our death? Quote:
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And once again, your use of Revelation 20:12-13 is a horrible misinterpretation and a failure to use the full context of the entire passage. Again, this is very typical of Mormons. That’s why Mormonism is a cult. Go look up the passage again, and this time acknowledge the part about the book of life. If you read just a bit further – I know you can do it – you’ll see that he’s talking about two books the book of life, and the book of death. Those in the book of life – those who are saved by God’s grace, aren’t judged by their works. Only those in the book of the dead are – those who didn’t accept his grace. They’re judged by their works because that’s all they had. Our works are never good enough. So, once again, if you look at the ENTIRE passage, it actually goes against the point you were trying to make. READ THE WHOLE PASSAGE!!!!!!! Your last bit there that Paul declared supports the stance of Grace alone. Why are you using it in your argument against it? If you take out the part you added “(they sought it)” it makes sense. They didn’t attain righteousness because they didn’t seek it by faith, but through the works of the law. Let’s stop trying to twist what the Bible says, OK? Quote:
"Christians speak often of the blood of Christ and its cleansing power. Much is believed and taught on this subject, however, it is utter nonsense and so palpably false that to believe it is to lose one's salvation." This is from 1 John 1:7, i.e. The Bible: (Even the KJV that you use exclusively!) "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin" This is from Hebrew 9:14, KJV "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" This is from Revelations 1:5, KJV "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood" (Revelations 1:5). Are you sure you believe in the Jesus of the Bible? Quote:
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#183 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 07:35 AM
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The Jesus we believe in is much greater than the Bible.
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#184 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 07:35 AM
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As far as taking thinks out of context AntiMormons take the cake for that. That you believe in a man made doctrine of the 'Trinity' that was composed by men 3 centuries after true Christians went under ground as they were being murdered for their beliefs, composed by an assembly of men who took it upon themselves to try and define God, have you ever read the document and what authority did these men have other than polictical?: We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead, whose kingdom shall have no end. And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen. You can believe that garbled attempt of an explanation of the GodHead by polictically appointed men in the 3rd Century or you can believe this: ![]() Btw is the word "trinity' found anywhere in the KJV of the Bible? Lastly to say Mormons don't believe in Jesus because we have more information than books that were written more than 2000 years ago is showing your lack of religious tolerance. dbs |
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#185 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 09:35 AM
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diamond, let's look at the Bible. I can make my argument simply by using it.
No, the word "Trinity" isn't used in the Bible. So what? Does that alone mean the concept can't exist? I don't think so. That's not logical. Plus, as I've said dozens and dozens of times here (which have yet to be acknowledged, I guess) you believe in God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as three separate Gods. You also believe we can each become a God. These beliefs are contradicted by the Bible. See the many verses I posted (and you just quoted) where both the Old Testament and New Testament refute these beliefs? Once again, how do you reconcile this? I keep asking this and I haven't received an answer. So you see, I don't have to believe a "garbled attempt of an explanation of the Godhead by politically appointed me in the third century" because the Bible is sufficient in explaining the Trinity. I sure as heck am not going to get my theology from a scary Mormon painting either. "Lastly to say Mormons don't believe in Jesus because we have more information than books that were written more than 2000 years ago is showing your lack of religious tolerance." I didn't say Mormons don't believe in Jesus because you have more information, I'm saying it because the additional "information" you have contradicts the texts written 2,000 years ago, and in fact, paints another picture of Christ. (And leads to paintings like the one you shared.) Is it a lack of religious tolerance to stand for the truth? If so, you're intolerant, too! Disagreeing and proving something wrong using religious texts isn't a lack of religious tolerance. I tolerate your faith, I just firmly disagree with it based on how it contradicts the Bible . . . and believes in it at the same time. Like I said before, too, I have Mormons in my family. I have no problem with them as people. They're great people! I have every right to disagree with them though. That doesn't mean I'm intolerant. Wouldn't you agree? |
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#186 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 07:35 AM
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My point about the Trinity is that it is man made doctrine, (not in the Bible) that Creed is man's feeble attempt to lump together 3 distinct different entities into one and what you based the whole foundation of your argument. The GodHead is not a man made creed but a clearer explanation of who The Father, The Son and Holy Ghost actually are. You have chose to ridicule that explanantion. You have also chose to misrepresent that we worship multiple gods when you know we don't. We pray to God our Father and worship him thru the Son Jesus Christ the same as most Christians and you have totally misrepresented that fact. If Christ were God the Father (as you claim) he would not have told Peter that his Father In Heaven revealed his ( Christ's true idenity) when Peter said he knew that Christ was the Son of God. Christ would have something like 'Flesh and Blood have not revealed it to thee but my Father in Heaven has revealed it to thee Who I happen to be standing before you' But Christ didn't say that because Peter and Christ were on the same page both knowing they both had a Father in Heaven the same way that you and I do with Christ being our brother. You make simple things complicated coemgen. When Bono sings that we're one, you and I are not literally one, only One in Purpose. peace, dbs |
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#187 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: on borderland we run
Posts: 16,861
Local Time: 09:35 AM
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Can we split this thread into mitt romney and mormon argument threads? I'm sick of checking for Romney news and getting more mormon arguments.
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#188 | |
Refugee
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,401
Local Time: 02:35 PM
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There isn't a "mormonised" bible, we use the same KJV as you do, just a mistake on my part. |
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#189 | ||||
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 09:35 AM
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#190 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
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#191 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
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#192 | |
Refugee
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,401
Local Time: 02:35 PM
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I think this pretty much sums up this argument
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this argument is going no where fast, all of your arguments are subject to interpretation. I don't care that you don't believe what we believe, but I wish you could just have respect for our religion, and our beliefs |
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#193 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 07:35 AM
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Regarding your mantra about is there is One God, we believe that. There is only one God that we pray to and this you know. As far as we're concerned there is one God, God the Father, and through his Son Jesus Christ, he created the Heavens and the earth. That is all we need to be concerned about for our salvation. Jehovah (Lord) YAWEH of the Old Testament is Christ (Lord) of the New Testament, Christ lived with God along with all of us. I don't think you believe in the Pre Existence, though do you? When in the Old Testament the Prophets talked of one God that was directed at the pagans who worshiped many gods unlike you me and other Christians who worship one. I think you already know this coemgen and I really do not think you're looking for any useful information other than to debate doctrinal issues when you and I both know full well as Christians that we could be doing better things in this life, like helping, assisting and serving our fellowman thereby glorifying our Father in Heaven. Don't look for me to burn up precious time addressing every one of your strawman issues you attempt to raise; it diverts from our true purpose in life. take care, dbs |
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#194 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 09:35 AM
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Pre-existence. No, I don't believe it. I do believe God has always existed and has never changed. That's what the Bible says. Yes, this includes Christ. See the book of John. "In the beginning was the Word. The Word was with God and the Word was God." Notice it doesn't say "the Word was another god." Hmmmmmm. Strawman issues? We're talking about essential Christian truths. It's funny you consider them something so flippant. Yes, we should be helping, assisting and serving our fellowman. That stuff alone doesn't make anyone a Christian though. |
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#195 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
Local Time: 09:35 AM
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You're taking a single response of mine to sum up my whole argument? Here we go again — taking a part of the whole to change the definition of the whole. The majority of my side of the argument has been taken from the Bible itself. Anyone can go back and see that. |
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#196 | |
Forum Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 03:35 PM
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If we're going to go back to discussing Romney purely as a politician however, the thread needs to stay civil this time or it will wind up closed. Thanks. |
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#197 | |
Refugee
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,401
Local Time: 02:35 PM
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#198 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Black and White Town
Posts: 3,962
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I think we're done there, macphisto23. Yolland wants us back on the topic of Romney.
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#199 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 07:35 AM
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#200 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,602
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