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Old 12-18-2004, 03:45 AM   #81
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So BrownEyed, do you think there is as much of a hypocrisy in the Christian folk who celebrate Christmas in the same way an athiest does? Not all people who follow religion necessarily go to church or mass on Christmas day, or infact treat the celebration any different to athiests.
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Old 12-18-2004, 04:31 AM   #82
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and Jesus was not even born on the 25th December so how can you, as the bible says, worship God with spirit and truth, if you are saying he was born on the 25th December which is not the truth so does smack of hypocrisy considering you probably have all the trapping of the pagan celebrations like christmas trees holly and ivy which have nothing to do with Jesus ect

You might want to note that the bibles account the shepherds were out minding their flocks in the field, which would have been unlikely on a freezing winter night of December and if you check your bible you will find the three wise men did not go to the stable but to a house, at a later period, why else would Herod order baby boys from 2 years and under to be put to death after they visited him if Jesus was only born?
But everyone to his own I guess

I say let the pagans and atheist have christmas

the peace and good will message in the bible would cover a much longer period of time than a few days anyway, I wish peace and good will to ALL people, family and friends ALL year around
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Old 12-18-2004, 06:42 AM   #83
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As my good friend Randall likes to say, Christmas is the no-man's-land in the ongoing class war. Yep, a cheery fellow is Randall.

He'd join you for a game of football in the mud if he had a leg to stand on.
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Old 12-18-2004, 11:56 PM   #84
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Ok, here's something for ya. One of my relatives was a member of the Church of Christ. As right-wing, holy Christian as you'd ever want to meet. His church doesn't celebrate Christmas as the birth of Christ because they know it's got no basis as a fact. They know it's not a celebration of the actual birth of Christ, but an adaptation of a pagan holiday to commorate the occasion.

Smoke that.
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Old 12-19-2004, 12:43 AM   #85
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one church out of millions...
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Old 12-19-2004, 01:39 AM   #86
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so its truth in numbers?

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Old 12-19-2004, 02:02 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
one church out of millions...
(from: http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm)

Number of adherents of world religions:

Christianity 2,015 million (dropping)

Islam 1,215 million (growing)


BrownEyedBoy, if/when the worlds population of Islam overtakes Christanity, will you will change religion? They must be right if theres more of them, yes?
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Old 12-19-2004, 02:19 AM   #88
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In all fairness bel, I'm going to believe in God on the first of January as I will have won the 31 million dollar lotto draw. With these odds, you'd not be able to convince me God didn't exist after that.
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Old 12-19-2004, 02:47 AM   #89
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Some thoughts:

Jesus was a Jew so what would Jesus think of people celebrating a pagan/Christian holiday?

What would Jesus think of people eating ham (nonkosher) to celebrate his birthday?

hmmm
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Old 12-19-2004, 03:34 AM   #90
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lol dont you find it funny that christians follow a man who is of another religion?
but no, christianity is still right!


sorry, i just dont get the splintering of the jewish faith and christianity. its like starting a seperate religion from buddhism but still worshipping buddha.

or maybe not, i dont know things.
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Old 12-19-2004, 03:53 AM   #91
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This year I've taken the bold step in not celebrating Xmas at all.

For 3 years I have refused to say (christ)mas and i always refer to it as xmas.

Sure I will be buying gifts and catching up with distant friends and family, yet we are celebrating a break from the ordinary life of work and study and getting ready to welcome in a new year, rather than the birth of a dead man to a woman who could not have been a virgin.

A lot of acquaintances have been puzzled over my new approach to Xmas, which is low key and untraditional. But I have to do it and I have felt really proud about it.

I try and avoid those cringeworth carols such as 'away in a manger' and 'silent night.'

XMAS time has never felt so different, and so fresh, exiciting and worthwhile.

"Let's take the christ outta christmas
And celebrate the solstice
And let commercialisation reign
Cause its not gonna wane"
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Old 12-19-2004, 03:58 AM   #92
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You know what Mr Garrison would be singing to YOU, now dont you?
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Old 12-19-2004, 04:02 AM   #93
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My family get together, exchange presents, eat crayfish (brother in law catches them) and then we go for a swim.

Thats it really. Quite boring. Its only starting to get interesting again now cause theres children who are wishfully hopping Santa will bring them a robot unicorn

PS Any help on locating a robot unicorn is welcomed.
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Old 12-19-2004, 04:16 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
I wikipedia-ed Christmas and this is what came out:
Ah, wikipedia, a great source of information. I hope you've read the whole article about Christmas, instead of just quoting the beginning. Because it has a lot of interesting information:

Quote:
Customs and celebrations

An enormous number of customs, with either secular, religious, or national aspects, surround Christmas, and vary from country to country. Most of the familiar traditional practices and symbols of Christmas, such as the Christmas tree, the Christmas ham, the Yule Log, holly, mistletoe, and the giving of presents, were adapted or appropriated by Christian missionaries from the earlier Asatru pagan midwinter holiday of Yule. This celebration of the winter solstice was widespread and popular in northern Europe long before the arrival of Christianity, and the word for Christmas in the Scandinavian languages is still today the pagan jul (=yule). The Christmas tree per se is believed to have first been used in Germany.

Rather than attempting to suppress such popular pagan feast days, Pope Gregory I allowed Christian missionaries to give them a Christian reinterpretation, while permitting most of the associated customs to continue with little or no modification.2 The give and take between religious and governmental authorities and celebrators of Christmas continued through the years. Places where conservative Christian theocracies flourished, as in Cromwellian England and in the early New England colonies, were among those where celebrations were suppressed.3 After the Russian Revolution, Christmas celebrations were banned in the Soviet Union for the next seventy five years. A few present day Christian churches, notably the Jehovah's Witnesses, some Puritan groups, and some ultra-conservative fundamentalist denominations, still view Christmas as a pagan holiday not sanctioned by the Bible, and do not celebrate it.
So, apparently, a true, non-hypocritical Christian is not allowed to have a Christmas tree, give presents, etc.
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Old 12-19-2004, 10:38 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
one church out of millions...
Actually, the Church of Christ is a fairly large Protestant denomination here in the US, but don't let a fact ruin your carefully thought out theory.
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Old 12-19-2004, 08:53 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by beli


There is no code of conduct for atheists. Atheist simply means 'no god". An atheist could believe in love, peace, etc. An atheist could also believe in eating small children for breakfast. There are no rules.

Please, I feel like Im repeating myself endlessly here.
I live in the USA, and there are many rules here, even rules against eating small children whether you're athiest or not.

I don't understand why Christians celebrate Christmas. It's all based on pagan traditions and other gods.

Once upon a time, there was a baby, thought to be the Son of God, born of a virgin woman, and magi brought Him gifts in a barn. He was considered “the way, the truth and the light”, even “savior” and “messiah”. His birthday, December 25th was also celebrated each year. And Sunday was considered His day, not Saturday (the Sabbath) as it was in Judaism. He performed miracles. He was celibate his whole life. He had 12 companions or disciples, and His followers also ate bread and drank wine symbolizing His blood and body. He died and was buried in a tomb, and was resurrected three days later. After His resurrection, He went to heaven and to be with His Heavenly Father, and it is said that He will come back again one day in a final judgment day, where all men are resurrected and God sends them to heaven or hell. Nobody believes in this God anymore, but He was once popular. His name is Mithra and he was born about 600 years before Jesus.

Whether you be atheist, pagan, Christian, Muslim, etc., I wish you all a very happy holiday!
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Old 12-19-2004, 11:18 PM   #97
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I can't believe I'm the only one who sees a contradiction in: an atheist celebrating a Christian holiday.
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Old 12-19-2004, 11:36 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
I can't believe I'm the only one who sees a contradiction in: an atheist celebrating a Christian holiday.
Why do you choose to ignore the posts in this thread? I really dont understand your way of thinking / reading. Please elaborate.
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Old 12-19-2004, 11:49 PM   #99
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Why do you keep saying that? I've read all of them and all it says is: "Atheists are not aware that it's a Christian holiday, nor do some Chrisitans."

That doesn't make it any less a Christian holiday, though. It celebrates the birth of Christ, for the love of God! If not that then what does it celebrate? Did people just randomly come up with the name Christ-mas, and the whole December over nothing?

Really, I'm not trying to be rude or anything but it's just something I noticed and felt like talking about with open minded people who would probably just laugh it off and say "so?". Instead, all I see is denial ....or people pleading ignorance.
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Old 12-19-2004, 11:55 PM   #100
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