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Old 03-17-2008, 04:33 PM   #21
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Poor Cheney, he just wants to be heard. He's probably one of the most irrelevant VPs we've had in awhile. The only time you ever heard about him the last 6 years(for he was somewhat "vital" in the beginning) is when he was being hospitalized or when he was supporting torture.
What about when he dropped the F-BOMB on Pat Leahy or accidently shot his friend?

But, if your point is that you're tired of Dick Chaney as vice-president and can't wait for Mitt Romney to take over the office...then I agree.
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Old 03-17-2008, 05:01 PM   #22
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Originally posted by INDY500


What about when he dropped the F-BOMB on Pat Leahy or accidently shot his friend?

But, if your point is that you're tired of Dick Chaney as vice-president and can't wait for Mitt Romney to take over the office...then I agree.
How could I forget those? My point is I actually think Cheney's legacy will be worse than Bush's...
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Old 03-17-2008, 05:57 PM   #23
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Originally posted by INDY500

But, if your point is that you're tired of Dick Chaney as vice-president and can't wait for Mitt Romney to take over the office...then I agree.



let it be known.

i would prefer Mitt to Dick.

(that almost sounds heterosexual).
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:10 PM   #24
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080319/...r_wh/bush_iraq

Here is Mr. Bush saying how he thinks Iraq has been successful.

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Old 03-19-2008, 01:33 PM   #25
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(CBS/AP) On the eve of the five-year anniversary of the start of the war with Iraq, Americans continue to think the results of the war have not been worth the loss of American lives and the other costs of attacking Iraq, according to a new CBS News poll.

Today 29 percent of Americans say the results of the war were worth it; 64 percent say they were not.

In August 2003, less than six months after the beginning of the war, Americans were divided as the whether or not the results of the war were worth it. Opinion reached a low point in March 2006 - when only one in four Americans said the war was worth the costs.

Support today breaks heavily along partisan lines. Sixty-two percent of Republicans say the results of the war with Iraq were worth the costs, while only 10 percent of Democrats and 25 percent of Independents agree. In fact, belief among Republicans that the war was worth it has risen 11 points since March 2006, while support among Democrats and Independents has remained largely the same.


Meanwhile, in Iraq on Tuesday, Vice President Dick Cheney played the part of backroom power broker for two days and came away with pledges from Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds to firm up a new blueprint for U.S.-Iraq relations that will stretch beyond the Bush presidency.

Cheney flew in a cargo plane to Iraqi Kurdistan in the north to finish two days of private meetings with powerful politicians in Iraq. On Monday, he had talks with officials in Baghdad - even venturing outside the secured Green Zone to dine and have private discussions.

Topics ranged from security in Iraq to Iran's rising influence in Mideast, but a key item was about crafting a long-term agreement between the U.S. and Iraq, plus a narrower deal to define the legal basis for continued U.S. troop presence.

The deal would take the place of a U.N. Security Council resolution that expires in December, the same time Bush will be packing up to leave office. The administration says the deal will not seek permanent U.S. bases in Iraq or codify troop levels, nor tie the hands of a future commander in chief as some Democrats fear

Administration officials say they probably will not seek Senate approval of the plan because the agreement will not be a treaty that provides Iraq with specific security guarantees. This position has prompted a backlash in Congress, where Democrats have proposed legislation that would render the agreement null and void without the Senate's blessing.

Democrats and some Republicans have questioned whether the 2002 authorization of force in Iraq still applies legally because it referred to the need to get rid of Saddam Hussein and eliminate the threat of weapons of mass destruction. Since the 2003 invasion, Hussein has been captured and executed, and no weapons of mass destruction were ever found.

Cheney advisers said that President Jalal Talabani, a Kurd, made clear on Monday that even though the Kurds have a seniautonomous region in northern Iraq, they were completely committed to making the area work within an Iraqi state.

Cheney was warmly greeted in Irbil by Massoud Barzani, head of the regional administration in the semiautonomous Kurdish area. "We are certainly counting on President Barzani's leadership to help us conclude a new strategic relationship between the United States and Iraq, as well as to pass crucial pieces of national legislation in the months ahead," Cheney said.

Barzani said the Kurds are committed to being "part of the solution, and not part of the problem."

"I would like to reiterate our commitment that we will continue to play a positive role in order to build a new Iraq - an Iraq with a foundation of a great federal, democratic, pluralistic, free Iraq," Barzani said.

Cheney spent Monday night at Balad Air Base, northwest of Baghdad. On Tuesday morning, before he headed to northern Iraq, he spoke at an outdoor troop rally, saying that as long as freedom is suppressed in the Mideast, the region will remain a place of "stagnation, resentment and violence ready for export."

Later in the day, Cheney flew to Oman, continuing his 10-day trip to the Mideast, which will include visits to Saudi Arabia, Israel, the Palestinian territory and Turkey.


This poll was conducted among a random sample of 844 adults nationwide, interviewed by telephone March 15-17, 2008. The error due to sampling for results based on the entire sample could be plus or minus three percentage points. The error for subgroups is higher.
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:19 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
(that almost sounds heterosexual).


I disagree with your statement that Cheney is the most irrelevant VP ever, BVS. In terms of impact on policy, Cheney may actually be one of if not the most relevant VP we've had. Unfortunately.
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Old 03-19-2008, 08:19 PM   #27
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oops, double
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Old 03-20-2008, 07:35 AM   #28
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Normal

By Farah Stockman
Globe Staff / March 20, 2008

WASHINGTON - On the fifth anniversary of the Iraq war, President Bush delivered a speech yesterday at the Pentagon warning of "serious consequences for the world's economy" if the United States were to withdraw from Iraq and Al Qaeda were to seize control of the country's vast oil resources.

Later in the president's speech, when addressing the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Bush talked not only of the Americans who lost their lives, but of the large number who lost their jobs.

"More than a million Americans lost work" following the attacks, he said.

Bush's speech, which otherwise dwelled on the importance of military victory and the cost of defeat, was a quiet attempt to link Al Qaeda to America's economic woes, some analysts noted. They said the president was seeking to reshape his case for staying in Iraq in a way that would resonate with an American public that is increasingly worried about high oil prices and the likelihood of a recession.

"I think he's trying to make a case that the Iraq war is integral to resolving our economic difficulties, which he knows the public is weighing more heavily now than they have in the past five years," said Kenneth Katzman, a Middle East specialist with the Congressional Research Service, the research arm of Congress, who just returned from a trip to Iraq.

Antiwar protesters also sought to link the war to the economy by blockading the offices of the Internal Revenue Service to draw attention to the high cost of the conflict. Dozens were arrested outside IRS headquarters in Washington, and hundreds protested across the city.

Bush, in his speech, contended that estimates of the war's costs have been overblown. But he also acknowledged that the "battle in Iraq has been longer and harder and more costly than we anticipated."

He said security gains made by US troops over the past year are "fragile and reversible," signaling that he is unlikely to order further troop reductions in Iraq beyond those already planned. He said the war, which has cost nearly 4,000 US lives and roughly $500 billion in direct expenses, is poised to give the United States a major strategic victory against Al Qaeda.

"We're witnessing the first large-scale Arab uprising against Osama bin Laden," Bush said, referring to Sunni tribes who have sided with the Americans. "The significance of this development cannot be overstated."

But some of Bush's strongest words were when he described what he said would be the consequences for pulling out of Iraq: imperiling the world's economy and putting the country's oil wealth in the hands of terrorists.

"An emboldened Al Qaeda with access to Iraq's oil resources could pursue its ambitions to acquire weapons of mass destruction to attack America and other free nations," he said.

The argument that US troops need to stay in Iraq to protect the country's oil is not new, but has gained potency as oil prices hit historic highs. As far back as 2005, Bush warned that if bin Laden gained control of Iraq, his group would "seize oil fields to fund their ambitions."

Around then, Melvin R. Laird, Richard M. Nixon's defense secretary, wrote an article in Foreign Affairs magazine arguing that the United States can't abandon Iraq, as it did Vietnam, because it depends on oil from the region.

"Picture those oil reserves in the hands of religious extremists whose idea of utopia is to knock the world economy and culture back more than a millennium to the dawn of Islam," Laird wrote.

But some specialists took issue yesterday with the idea that Al Qaeda would get control of Iraq's oil in the event of a US withdrawal, because the oil is in Shi'ite and Kurdish areas that are hostile to the group.

"The idea that Al Qaeda is going to gain control over Iraq and export oil is a fairy tale, James Bond stuff," said Ilan Goldenberg, policy director at the National Security Network, a liberal group of defense and foreign policy specialists.

Michael Makovsky, who served as special assistant on Iraqi oil in the office of the Secretary of Defense from 2002 to 2006, said criminal gangs and Shi'ite militias in southern Iraq pose a more significant threat to Iraqi oil exports than Al Qaeda.

Michael Rubin, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank based in Washington, said "the idea of Al Qaeda taking over the oil is stretch."

But Rubin said Bush's decision to raise the issue was probably an attempt to get the attention of Americans who are already anxious about today's record-high prices for gasoline.

"With oil going through the roof, it's a linkage which a lot of people will make," Rubin said.

White House Press Secretary Dana Perino said Bush's remarks about oil and lost jobs were meant to highlight the economic effects of a setback in the war on terror.

"We know what the kind of impact that the 9/11 attack had on our country," she said. "Our stock markets went into a turmoil, and we had to take significant action in order to help right our economy."

But Goldenberg said Bush's attempt to use economic concerns to bolster support for his war in Iraq was unlikely to succeed.

Citing a CNN poll released yesterday, Goldenberg said 71 percent of Americans believe the war is partly responsible for the country's economic troubles.

"That's not the kind of number that President Bush can turn around," he said.
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Old 03-22-2008, 01:45 PM   #29
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US air strike kills 'Iraq allies'
Awakening Council members at the site of the air strike near Samarra on Saturday 22 March 2008

Six people have been killed in a US air strike near the Iraqi town of Samarra, with some reports suggesting they were US-allied anti-al-Qaeda Sunni fighters.

The US denied claims by a police source and a militia member that those killed at the checkpoint were members of an Awakening Council.

The US-funded groups are credited with helping to curb the level of violence.

It came as four more US soldiers were killed in Iraq, bringing the death toll since the 2003 invasion close to 4,000.

of course you know this is a lie.




4000 really
how many American CONTRACTORS have died?
And if they were shipped to a Hospital in Germany and died 2 months later, they don't count.
and of course 4000 AMERICANS are all that matters
a human being of a different nationality "does not count
Rumsfeld "We don't count dead Iraqis."
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Old 03-23-2008, 11:40 PM   #30
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[q]
US Death Toll in Iraq War Hits 4,000
Mar 23, 10:45 PM (ET)
By ROBERT H. REID

BAGHDAD (AP) - A roadside bomb killed four U.S. soldiers in Baghdad on Sunday, the military said, pushing the overall American death toll in the five-year war to at least 4,000.

The grim milestone came on the same day that rockets and mortars pounded the U.S.-protected Green Zone, underscoring the fragile security situation and the resilience of both Sunni and Shiite extremist groups despite an overall lull in violence.

A Multi-National Division - Baghdad soldier also was wounded in the roadside bombing, which struck the soldiers' patrol vehicle about 10 p.m. in southern Baghdad, according to a statement.

Identities of those killed were withheld pending notification of relatives.

The 4,000 figure is according to an Associated Press count that includes eight civilians who worked for the Department of Defense.

Last year, the U.S. military deaths spiked along with the Pentagon's "surge" - the arrival of more than 30,000 extra troops trying to regain control of Baghdad and surrounding areas. The mission was generally considered a success, but the cost was evident as soldiers pushed into Sunni insurgent strongholds and challenged Shiite militias.

Military deaths rose above 100 for three consecutive months for the first time during the war: April 2007, 104; May, 126 and June at 101.

The death toll has seesawed since, with 2007 ending as the deadliest year for American troops at 901 deaths. That was 51 more deaths than 2004, the second deadliest year for U.S. soldiers.

The milestones for each 1,000 deaths - while an arbitrary marker - serve to rivet attention on the war and have come during a range of pivotal moments.[/q]
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Old 03-24-2008, 07:20 AM   #31
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oops I forgot about this one-yes it's 4,000 now
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Old 03-24-2008, 05:48 PM   #32
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During a briefing with reporters Monday, White House press secretary Dana Perino said the president "definitely feels the loss."

"He gets a report about every single soldier who passes away," she said. "And he always pauses a moment to think about them and to offer a prayer for their loved ones and their family and friends."


pauses a moment to think about them and to offer a prayer for their loved ones and their family and friends


just think he has had to this 4000 times!!!!!


that can't be easy, could you do it?

I know I couldn't,
without shiting myself, a few times.
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Old 03-24-2008, 06:02 PM   #33
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All 4000....


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Old 03-24-2008, 06:17 PM   #34
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maybe just send that

as a post card or poster

Quote:
Bush: U.S. deaths in Iraq 'laid foundations for peace



President Bush vows to make sure U.S. deaths in Iraq "were not lost in vain"



Democratic presidential candidates call milestone "heartbreaking" and "a tragedy"


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush expressed sympathy Monday for the families of the 4,000 Americans killed in the war in Iraq, promising to make sure their loved ones "were not lost in vain."


President Bush addresses the press with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Monday.

"One day, people will look back at this moment in history and say, 'Thank God there were courageous people willing to serve, because they laid the foundations for peace for generations to come,' " Bush told reporters after a meeting at the State Department.
a corner stone for peace?

or just another brick in the wall?
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:30 PM   #35
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Originally posted by Diemen




I disagree with your statement that Cheney is the most irrelevant VP ever, BVS. In terms of impact on policy, Cheney may actually be one of if not the most relevant VP we've had. Unfortunately.
don't forget that apart about attempting to set a precedent that the vp's office is accountable to no one.
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:27 PM   #36
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Interview with Lynndie England:
http://www.stern.de/politik/ausland/....html?nv=ct_cb
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Old 03-26-2008, 08:53 PM   #37
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A great, great article about "4000" from a soldiers point of view:

http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...0.html?cnn=yes
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Old 05-01-2008, 07:38 AM   #38
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Happy Anniversary "Mission Accomplished"!

Bush pays price for 'Mission Accomplished' sign
White House admits fault on banner seen to declare Iraq victory 5 years ago
The Associated Press
updated 5:29 a.m. ET, Thurs., May. 1, 2008

WASHINGTON - The White House said Wednesday that President Bush has paid a price for the “Mission Accomplished” banner that was flown in triumph five years ago but later became a symbol of U.S. misjudgments and mistakes in the long and costly war in Iraq.

Thursday is the fifth anniversary of Bush’s dramatic landing in a Navy jet on an aircraft carrier homebound from the war. The USS Abraham Lincoln had launched thousands of airstrikes on Iraq.

“Major combat operations in Iraq have ended,” Bush said at the time. “The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on Sept. 11, 2001, and still goes on.” The “Mission Accomplished” banner was prominently displayed above him — a move the White House came to regret as the display was mocked and became a source of controversy.

After shifting explanations, the White House eventually said the “Mission Accomplished” phrase referred to the carrier’s crew completing its 10-month mission, not the military completing its mission in Iraq. Bush, in October 2003, disavowed any connection with the “Mission Accomplished” message. He said the White House had nothing to do with the banner; a spokesman later said the ship’s crew asked for the sign and the White House staff had it made by a private vendor.

“President Bush is well aware that the banner should have been much more specific and said ‘mission accomplished’ for these sailors who are on this ship on their mission,” White House press secretary Dana Perino said Wednesday. “And we have certainly paid a price for not being more specific on that banner. And I recognize that the media is going to play this up again tomorrow, as they do every single year.”

She said what is important now is “how the president would describe the fight today. It’s been a very tough month in Iraq, but we are taking the fight to the enemy.”

At least 49 U.S. troops died in Iraq in April, making it the deadliest month since September when 65 U.S. troops died.

Now in its sixth year, the war in Iraq has claimed the lives of at least 4,061 members of the U.S. military. Only the Vietnam War (August 1964 to January 1973), the war in Afghanistan (October 2001 to present) and the Revolutionary War (July 1776 to April 1783) have engaged America longer.

Bush, in a speech earlier this month, said that “while this war is difficult, it is not endless.”
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Old 05-04-2008, 04:30 PM   #39
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Quote:
Iraqi first lady escapes attack

SUNDAY, MAY 04, 2008

Hero Ibrahim Ahmed's convoy was struck by the bomb nearby the National Theatre [AFP]






The wife of Jalal Talabani, the Iraqi president, has escaped unhurt after her convoy was hit by a roadside bomb.

The attack in the centre of the capital on Sunday wounded four of her bodyguards but left Hero Ibrahim Ahmed, the first lady, unhurt, the president's office said.

"One of the vehicles of Ms Hero Ibrahim's convoy hit an improvised explosive device in the road this morning," an office statement said.

"She was heading to the National Theatre to attend a cultural festival."

Two Iraqi soldiers and two civilians were also wounded in the attack in Baghdad's Karrada district.

The bomb hit the convoy which was passing by the National Theatre at about 10am [0700GMT].

The assailants are unknown.
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Old 05-06-2008, 03:26 PM   #40
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http://www.spiegel.de/international/...551828,00.html

An interview with Lawrence Kaplan, a neoconservative who published a book in 2003 together with William Kristol, "The War over Iraq: Saddam's Tyranny and America's Mission", who spent two years in Iraq. His experience changed has mind quite a bit.

Quote:
However, this is a completely different question from whether or not having invaded Iraq we should stay or leave. On this I am equally clear: We turned this country upside down and we have an obligation to put it back together again. No matter how long it takes.
This is what I think, either.
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