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#1 | |
Blue Crack Addict
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McCain was not tortured
Here.
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#2 |
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i alluded to this the other day in another thread.
__________________clearly, not tortured. not at all. he was merely the subject of enhanced interrogation techniques. McCain made up the cross-in-the-dirt story as well. to pander to the credulous. who would have thought that John McCain, a prisoner of war, would be capable of such things. including hiring the Rove team after he said that Rove deserved a special place in hell for what they did to him in South Carolina in 2000. ![]() i forgot. John McCain is a Maverick who only gives us Straight Talk and won't surrender until we've won. |
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#3 |
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He had to know this was going to kick him in the ass someday...
Straight Talk my ass. |
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#4 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
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Uh, didn't McCain decry Bush's fuzzy redefinition of torture?
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#5 | |
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yes, all along McCain has fought the Bush Admin on this, would this be a "maverick" episode? and a harsh critic of Gonzales, Rumsfeld there are many reasons why the Bush 3 label for McCain is just plain silly. |
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#6 |
ONE
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Perhaps, but the fact that he wishes to continue the war and continue pandering to the religious right on faith/moral issues(read: abortion, stem-cell research, prayer, etc), not to mention the fact that he has hired Karl Rove(after saying that there was a special place in hell for him after what happened in South Carolina in 2000) all outweigh any of the reasons why it won't be a 'Bush 3' term.
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#7 |
Blue Crack Addict
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I didn't post that to criticize McCain, but to illustrate the sheer idiocy of the Bush Administration regarding torture.
I would be interested in seeing some of the posters here who agreed with Bush's interpretation of torture comment on this. |
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#8 |
ONE
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Sadly, it wasn't idiocy that led to this interpretation of torture. It was the desire to justify/legitimize the administration's desire to torture(really torture) anyone who they deemed to even maybe perhaps have some information about terrorism, as part of the neo-fascist Christian state regime they wish to turn the US into.
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#9 | ||
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the McCain-sponsored Military Commissions Act prohibits the use of any cruel, inhumane, or degrading treatment and treatment that "shocks the conscience." however, it never makes specific which techniques meet that description, and Mukasey has argued that waterboarding, could, under some cricumstances, *not* "shock the conscience." in addition, in february of this year, McCain voted against restricting interrogation techniques to those under the Army Field Manual. McCain has distinguished himself by voting against waterboarding, but he's voted to allow the army to use whatever techniques it sees acceptable -- and those, as approved by Bush, involve many of the same "enhanced" techniques used against him by the Viet Cong. Quote:
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#10 | |||||
Rock n' Roll Doggie
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Just last year he said: Link Quote:
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#11 |
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#12 |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
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John McCain was tortured -- but he was one of the lucky ones.
Guantanamo Bay = Hanoi Hilton Goodluck with that this Fall. |
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#13 |
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#14 |
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#15 |
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#16 |
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I am really proud of this thread. I mean how often is it that we get such an opportunity for intelligent discussion... and the opportunity to bash two republicans at once.....
![]() Oh my, I think I just felt a twitch in my pants....so exciting. ![]() |
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#17 |
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#18 | |
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being totally honest here, i can't think of a more pressing issue than torture and what has happened to the standards of conduct by our military and how much this has been intentionally eroded over the past 8 years. and, in fact, i think it's quite dramatically ironic that the Republican nominee was himself tortured by the Viet Cong with the very same techniques -- forced standing, stress positions, hypothermia, sleep deprivation, denial of medical treatment -- that have now been used by US soldiers in GitMo and beyond. yes, there's a degree of drama in here, but the overall point is, i think , quite profound. and important. |
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#19 |
The Fly
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I can think of a number of more pressing issues than torture. I happened to be far more concerned about the mass murder of individuals that occurs on a daily basis as the free world stands by and does nothing. I am sorry if that offends anyone, but it's all about scale. Every person has a right to life, but it is beyond the scope of humanity to resolve every issue. If you believe otherwise, I think you are overly idealistic.
I am not here to bash anyone's beliefs, but perspective is everything. I am certainly not here to advocate or defend torture or those who would commit acts that do not appropriately represent the United States, or any other nation for that matter. It does seem to me that there are those who would rather we place those we have taken into custody into holding and not interrogate or otherwise attempt, by any means, to gather intelligence from them. That is not OK with me. It is not OK with me that more soldiers or innocent civilians would die by failing to pursue such information. I do agree that there have to be limits, but fundamentally this is a security issue. Just by reading these forums there seem to be a lot of people who do not believe that the world is a closed system and there are in fact people who want you, me and every member of our families dead just because we live in a certain demographic or believe that we should have the right to post in forums such as this. As far as the standards of conduct in our military, those men and women are following orders, for the most part. Those who commit illegal acts are criminals, but that is certainly not the majority or even any significant minority of those serving. The UCMJ provides for their punishment of those who do commit such crimes. I think debate on any subject is healthy, but broad generalizations about our military, elected officials or any group is exactly what feeds sectarianism, and ultimately conflict. Everywhere forum I read seems to be an 'us and them' mentality. If that trend continues, we are all doomed. As a personal statement, for all the criticism of John McCain and the military, I suggest anyone here experience some of the things they have experienced for one day. It may be fair to criticize policy, but personal attacks on people who would give their life to defend you is absolutely unacceptable to me. |
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#20 |
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what do we fight for if not to preserve our way of life, which involves treating human beings -- even the lowest of the low -- to basic standards of dignity? who are we if we ourselves cannot stick to basic standards of law? who do we become if we use the techniques of those who've been relegated to the dustbin of history (Pol Pot, the Viet Cong, the Stalinists, the Stasi)?
__________________what kind of society would we live in if we are to accept everything and anything the military does and view any sort of criticism as "unacceptable"? this is called a junta. this is life in Myanmar/Burma. this is what the West and the US is supposed to be about. this is what we have to defend -- our way of life. and the torture debate gets to the absolute heart of this. and there's also the small matter of the fact that torture doesn't work. it gets you bad information. it's a waste of time and resources. |
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