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Old 04-09-2008, 05:48 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
The NYT article was blogged over at Salon and this was probably the reader response I most agreed with--although as financeguy said, it's a valid form of expression as far as it goes.
Yeah that response pretty much hits the mark for me too.
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:49 PM   #22
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Originally posted by financeguy
What is your view on whether these t-shirts might increase false claims of rape against men, a growing problem which has led to the ruination of many men against whom false accusations have been made? In many cases, the women making the accusations get off scot free.

Someone wearing such a t-shirt where the statement made is untrue could well be likely to make such a false claim.
Well, it's not like the shirt says "I was raped by Joe Jones." There would be no false claim against a man unless someone asked the woman, "who raped you" and she falsely named someone.

And if she's going to falsely accuse someone, she probably wouldn't need the shirt to give her the impetus to do so.
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:50 PM   #23
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Originally posted by Harry Vest
as opposed to a college girl that got drunk and happened on an unfortunate sexual escapade that she later regrets...and then calls it "rape".
I'm not talking about a false accusation
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Old 04-09-2008, 05:53 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
The NYT article was blogged over at Salon and this was probably the reader response I most agreed with
What about the "I had an abortion" t-shirt? I just wonder how the dynamics would be different for that one, and how the opinion of that one would be different as a result.
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:20 PM   #25
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Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen

What about the "I had an abortion" t-shirt? I just wonder how the dynamics would be different for that one, and how the opinion of that one would be different as a result.
To me that falls under the oversharing part too. And the "why on earth would you feel the need to share your most intimate details with perfect strangers?" part too.
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:20 PM   #26
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Yeah, personally I'm not too keen on that concept either, and as with the 'Raped' T-shirt, I don't see it leading to lots of productive interchanges with curious strangers (though I suppose I could perhaps see either shirt being effective in the context of a demonstration or rally). But I do think the dynamic there is quite different, because in that case the intended statement is about the wearer's freely chosen exercise of a (controversially) protected right, a right she wishes to remain protected. It might draw angry or scandalized responses, but it isn't likely to draw trivializing ones.

I'm a little worried pursuing this tangent might invite unwelcome derailments though.
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Old 04-09-2008, 06:51 PM   #27
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Originally posted by yolland
I'm a little worried pursuing this tangent might invite unwelcome derailments though.
In FYM? Never!
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Old 04-09-2008, 07:14 PM   #28
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That's why you always carry a rape horn
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Old 04-09-2008, 09:59 PM   #29
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Originally posted by yolland
I don't understand what you're getting at here?
I guess what I am getting at is that if a person was attacked and stabbed three times there would be no stigma of shame or embarrassment attached to it.

With rape it is different for the victim.

The victim of a rape should be made to feel no more guilt or shame than the victim from any other assault.

And that 25,000,000 stat is from the article (one in six)

I think it is horrible!
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:15 PM   #30
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Originally posted by deep


I guess what I am getting at is that if a person was attacked and stabbed three times there would be no stigma of shame or embarrassment attached to it.
Well I think the fact that there are no visible scars is part of the reason.

I also think the fact that some have turned it around as to make it the fault of the "they were asking for it" cause...

And others have abused the term to feel better about a regret, or get back against someone who didn't turn out to be who they were...

I think both sides are to blame for the stigma(today, for I think the stigma was much different in the past)...
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:32 PM   #31
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Mutual awareness and perception that rape is primarily something men do to humiliate women (and occasionally other men), the ultimate way to "girlie-ize" them so to speak, is part of it too. I apologize for even suggesting the thought, but wouldn't you guys, too, be less likely to tell friends, family and coworkers--perhaps even the police--if you'd been raped? as opposed to, say, sharing with them that you got that black eye and busted lip when some asshole punched you to the ground then took your wallet last night? The act just conveys something different, and both victim and perpetrator know it.
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Old 04-09-2008, 10:38 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
Mutual awareness and perception that rape is primarily something men do to humiliate women (and occasionally other men), the ultimate way to "girlie-ize" them so to speak, is part of it too. I apologize for even suggesting the thought, but wouldn't you guys, too, be less likely to tell friends, family and coworkers--perhaps even the police--if you'd been raped? as opposed to, say, sharing with them that you got that black eye and busted lip when some asshole punched you to the ground then took your wallet last night? The act just conveys something different, and both victim and perpetrator know it.
Oh, I completely agree...
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Old 04-09-2008, 11:22 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
Mutual awareness and perception that rape is primarily something men do to humiliate women (and occasionally other men), the ultimate way to "girlie-ize" them so to speak, is part of it too. I apologize for even suggesting the thought, but wouldn't you guys, too, be less likely to tell friends, family and coworkers--perhaps even the police--if you'd been raped? as opposed to, say, sharing with them that you got that black eye and busted lip when some asshole punched you to the ground then took your wallet last night? The act just conveys something different, and both victim and perpetrator know it.


okay, so i've written, like, 5 different posts and deleted them all. i've boiled it down to this:

a "deliverance"-style rape just feels like a different thing altogether than what we understand as date rape.
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Old 04-09-2008, 11:55 PM   #34
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Usually I make a point of using the phrase "date rape" if I'm thinking in terms of 'gray area', two-drunk-and-horny-young-people-and-one-regrets-it-afterwards type scenarios. If that's what you mean by "date rape", then no, I didn't really have "date rape" in mind with my above post and I apologize if that wasn't clear. Though if you're talking about a "date" that ends with one party violently forcing themselves on the resisting other, which certainly also happens, then I think my above post still applies.
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Old 04-10-2008, 12:42 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
Usually I make a point of using the phrase "date rape" if I'm thinking in terms of 'gray area', two-drunk-and-horny-young-people-and-one-regrets-it-afterwards type scenarios. If that's what you mean by "date rape", then no, I didn't really have "date rape" in mind with my above post and I apologize if that wasn't clear. Though if you're talking about a "date" that ends with one party violently forcing themselves on the resisting other, which certainly also happens, then I think my above post still applies.


that is what i mean by date rape, or acquaintance rape, and that's the only thing i've had experience with -- not me, personally, but friends, both men and women. it's a very gray area, and it makes me very uncomfortable, especially when you're friends with both parties as i was in college when something like this went down between two of my friends. to me, that is a situation where gender differences might play a role.

the date-that-turns-violent scenario, i agree, is different and more akin to the "deliverance" scenario, though i guess i still see it as different from the historical purpose of man-on-man rape (as depicted in The Kite Runner) which is more akin to, say, Russian soldiers raping German women in 1945.

as for the original question -- would you be less willing to talk about it -- the truthful answer is that i don't know. i don't think i'd be less likely to report it, but i might be less likely to talk about it than to talk about being assaulted in the street.

i'm finding this very difficult to write about, probably because every time i think of something to say, i can think of a different scenario.

i suppose it is at it's core a psychological assault as much as it's a physical assault, so the depth of "damage" (so to speak) is going to be dependent upon the situation. unless we're talking about systematic rape, all of these situations are going to be entirely unique and are going to be processed after the fact in a unique manner.
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Old 04-10-2008, 08:54 AM   #36
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This thread reminded me of this story:

http://londonist.com/2008/04/rape_is..._official_.php

Not only can blogging wage war on your health, but public figures are getting in trouble for their online opinions. The BNP’s Nick Eriksen learnt this the hard way last week, after he was sacked as the party's London Assembly candidate for publishing jaw-droppingly obtuse views on rape on his blog. The post has since been removed, but luckily journalists were quick to spot the following:

"Rape is simply sex (I am talking about 'husband-rape' here)... Women enjoy sex, so rape cannot be such a terrible physical ordeal…To suggest that rape, when conducted without violence, is a serious crime is like suggesting force-feeding a woman chocolate cake is a heinous offence.”

Yeah. Whoa.

Londonist wants to know how someone with these kinds of views can have possibly gotten as far as Eriksen has in government: up until now, his blog has been either ignored or praised by fellow BNP leaders, including one entry in 2005 describing career women as “unnatural and vile.” Eriksen claimed his commentary sought to “stimulate debate”.

Almost 80% of rapes are “acquaintance rapes,” or sexual acts forced upon women by someone they know. Partner/husband rapes are the most common, and according to a 2000 British Crime Survey, strangers were responsible for a mere 8% of the rape victims surveyed. So no, Eriksen, rape is not exactly, nearly, or approximately anything remotely like eating cake, and whoever the perpetrator is, rape is by definition violent, and is never “simply” sex, whether or not it is instigated by a husband.
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Old 04-10-2008, 09:42 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by meegannie
This thread reminded me of this story:
[/i]


how does this thread remind you of that?

i don't see anyone in here pushing an attitude that rape is just unpleasant sex.
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Old 04-10-2008, 10:36 AM   #38
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^ I think she might have just meant that seeing a thread on this topic reminded her of that story.

Quote:
Almost 80% of rapes are “acquaintance rapes,” or sexual acts forced upon women by someone they know. Partner/husband rapes are the most common, and according to a 2000 British Crime Survey, strangers were responsible for a mere 8% of the rape victims surveyed.
That's different from here (although those two stats seem to contradict each other?); according to the USDoJ's most recent report, about 17% of female victims were raped by a stranger, about 24% by a current or former spouse/intimate partner, about 22% by a (non-intimate) male relative, about 21% by a current or former date, and about 27% by some other type of acquaintance--friend, coworker, neighbor etc. (percentages exceed 100 because some victims had been raped by more than one person). This report is also where the 1 in 6 figure comes from.
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Old 04-10-2008, 10:43 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511




how does this thread remind you of that?

i don't see anyone in here pushing an attitude that rape is just unpleasant sex.
I think there have been several posts in here that have trivialised rape/this discussion about the shirt.

Quote:
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That's why you always carry a rape horn
I also think it downplays the inherent violence of rape to use the word "rape" to refer to "two-drunk-and-horny-young-people-and-one-regrets-it-afterwards type scenarios" and to suggest that there are "gray areas" in rape.
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Old 04-10-2008, 10:58 AM   #40
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I think there have been several posts in here that have trivialised rape/this discussion about the shirt.


does it trivialize rape to suggest that there are worse things?
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