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Old 12-10-2007, 05:23 PM   #1
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Armed Plainclothes Security Guard Saved Lives

Unlike so many places in past killing sprees, this campus was not a gun-free zone.

This time the killer was stopped by an armed guard.


Security Guard 'Saved Over 100 Lives'

(CNSNews.com) - Many people are expressing relief that a volunteer security guard used her own gun to stop a man on a shooting spree Sunday. "She probably saved over 100 lives," the Brady Boyd, the pastor of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, said on Monday. The female guard, a church member dressed in plain clothes, killed the gunman after he opened fire at the mega-church. Boyd said she "rushed toward the attacker and took him down in the hallway" as he entered the building. The shooting erupted around 1 p.m., at the end of a service, when 7,000 people were either inside the New Life Church or just leaving. "He was just walking and shooting," the Denver Post quoted one witness as saying. The gunman, still unidentified, shot at least eight people, killing two teenage sisters, the pastor said. The girls were 16 and 18 years old. Their father, also shot, is listed in father condition. The gunman is believed to be the same young man who shot and killed two people earlier the same day at a missionary training center in suburban Denver. In that case, the gunman opened fire, reportedly after he was refused permission to spend the night at the missionary center. The gunman was described as skinny, in his 20s, about 6 feet tall and dressed in black, police said. KUSA-TV reported that the gunman was wearing a "tactical helmet and body armor." The church's pastor said the New Life Church "prepared in advance" for a possible attack, after hearing about the shooting at the missionary training center.
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Old 12-10-2007, 05:47 PM   #2
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It was a security guard.
They were prepared for it.
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:03 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Earnie Shavers
It was a security guard.
They were prepared for it.

That's the point.

She was a volunteer security guard.

The gunman, I just heard on the evening news had a thousand rounds of ammo.

He killed the victims outside of the main entrance.

The guard stopped him as he entered.

She saved a lot of lives.


If she had not been there, with a firearm, it's not hard to imagine the death toll with a killer with a thousand rounds on a killing spree.
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:07 PM   #4
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It's pretty sad that their even needs to be a security guard, let alone an armed one at a church.
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:10 PM   #5
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I was thinking the same thing, but from my understanding this is one of those mega churches, some of those are basically like malls.
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:11 PM   #6
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The church's pastor said the New Life Church "prepared in advance" for a possible attack, after hearing about the shooting at the missionary training center.
I would interpret that as they don't normally have armed security at the church.

And no, it's not really an argument that campuses should get armed.
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:15 PM   #7
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And no, it's not really an argument that campuses should get armed.
Exactly. With all the tazering deaths lately think about how many more deaths would be on our hands if we gave some of these trigger happy guards guns...
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:19 PM   #8
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What about security guards on a college campus? Are they armed?
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:24 PM   #9
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It depends on the campus. Some campuses have actual police in which they are armed. Some campuses have private security groups (like rent-a-cops), which aren't armed.
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Exactly. With all the tazering deaths lately think about how many more deaths would be on our hands if we gave some of these trigger happy guards guns...

I guess you mean security guards armed with a tazer.


I don't know of a tragedy where a "trigger happy security guard"
went on a killing spree with a firearm.
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:51 PM   #11
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Originally posted by the iron horse



I guess you mean security guards armed with a tazer.


I don't know of a tragedy where a "trigger happy security guard"
went on a killing spree with a firearm.
Not what I said. I said we are already having issues with cops and guards with tazers, think of the problems we'll have with guns.

I'm not talking about them going on sprees, but a guard(who have little training) with a gun may reach too quickly in order to stop some minor campus happenings.
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Old 12-10-2007, 07:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Not what I said. I said we are already having issues with cops and guards with tazers, think of the problems we'll have with guns.

I'm not talking about them going on sprees, but a guard(who have little training) with a gun may reach too quickly in order to stop some minor campus happenings.

I understand what you are saying and I see your point about proper training.

But, I think, a security guard will quickly know the difference between a "minor campus happening" and a very dangerous situation.
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Old 12-10-2007, 07:04 PM   #13
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I think his point is that, in a lot of cases, they don't.
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Old 12-10-2007, 07:23 PM   #14
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I wonder why they didn't just request a police(wo)man be on hand, since a shooting at a possibly related site had just occurred and they have so many congregants?

I don't have a problem with actual campus police having guns; as randhail noted, that's already pretty common. I think tasers are a different issue--there it seems like it may be the case that the notion of 'Here's a way to get someone unruly to cooperate without hurting them' can itself enable 'trigger-happy' tendencies that the same officer wouldn't have with a gun.
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Church gunman 'kicked out of missionary school'

CNN, Dec. 10

COLORADO SPRINGS -- Matthew Murray was kicked out of a missionary training program five years ago for strange behavior, and talked about hearing voices, according to a man who served at the center with him. Murray was the gunman who killed two people at the Youth With A Mission center on Sunday and two others at a Colorado Springs megachurch later that day, police said. He was shot by a church security guard and died of his wounds.

Richard Werner, 34, said Monday he was a worker at the center in Arvada, Colorado, in 2002, the same time as Murray. He said Murray was told in December 2002 he would not be allowed to join a mission trip to Bosnia. That was five days after Murray performed a pair of dark rock songs at a concert at the mission that made fellow workers "pretty scared," according to Werner. The performance--which included a song by rock band Linkin Park and another that had been recorded by controversial rocker Marilyn Manson--followed months of strange behavior, Werner said. Werner, of Balneario Camborius, Brazil, said he had a bunk near Murray's and that Murray would roll around in bed and make noises. "He would say, 'Don't worry, I'm just talking to the voices,' " Werner said. "He'd say, 'Don't worry, Richard. You're a nice guy. The voices like you.' " Werner said he instantly suspected Murray when he heard the news of Sunday's shootings. "I turned to my wife and I said, 'I know who did it. It's Matthew,' " he said. "It was so obvious. For four months, he was sleeping right next to me. Those are the things you don't imagine, but when it happened it was so obvious." Werner said his "heart is crushed" by news of the shootings.

Peter Warren, director of Youth With A Mission, said Monday that Murray did not go on the mission he was training for in 2002 because managers thought that "issues relating to his health made it unsafe for him to do so." Another source--a longtime member of New Life church, site of the second shooting--told CNN that Murray had a falling out with Youth With A Mission after working with the organization a couple of years ago, and that he sent antagonistic and threatening correspondence afterward.

Phil Abeyta, who identified himself as Murray's uncle, read a statement from the family Monday asking for forgiveness. "Our family cannot express the magnitude of our grief for the victims and families of this tragedy," he said. "...We cannot understand why this has happened." Abeyta spoke at a news conference with spokesmen from the Youth With A Mission center.

Police said Murray, 24, of Englewood, Colorado, shot and killed two people at the Youth With A Mission center and wounded two others early Sunday. At New Life Church, some 80 miles away, Murray sprayed fire from an assault rifle and threw smoke bombs in at least two locations where large numbers of congregants were likely to be, police said. Two teenage sisters were shot in the church's parking lot and died of their wounds; three other people, including the girls' father, were wounded.
Apparently the security guard was a retired policewoman.
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Old 12-11-2007, 12:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
I think his point is that, in a lot of cases, they don't.
Exactly.

So apparently in this case she was a retired cop. Good thing.

But most security guards are just someone looking for a job. Most often their background checks aren't any different from a retail job.

It takes a lot to have a job where you handle a gun and to be able to keep your personal life in check. Cops, FBI, CIA, etc. these are hard lives, emotionally and physically. It takes a certain type of person, and even then some people slip through the cracks. I.E. their personal prejudices get in the way. Or sometimes just their personal lives take over and rage can be taken out on someone that doesn't deserve it. Now for the most part, this doesn't happen.

But security guards? It's not like that. Yes, there are some experienced guards, and there are some that do this because they are serious about a future in the PD or whatever. But way too many are just people who need a job that takes very little experience. I don't want my kids educated by a university that isn't passionate about education, and I definately don't want my kids "protected" by someone whose just there because it's the only job he could get, he couldn't hold down other jobs, and now he has a gun and can use it.
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Old 12-11-2007, 02:21 AM   #17
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I'm not keen on armed security guards as opposed to armed campus police either; however, there are some limits on how much say colleges have in the matter. Nowadays the overwhelming majority of public colleges and universities have actual police, who are usually armed. But for private colleges I think that figure is only about half, and many states won't allow regular police to work for private schools, no matter how serious their crime problems might be. So they then wind up spending twice as much of their operating budget on people with only a third or a fourth as much training.
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Old 12-11-2007, 05:00 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

Apparently the security guard was a retired policewoman.
A key factor, I'd say.

You know I really don't have a problem with trained professionals carrying weapons (even if they're off duty or retired).

My stance on gun control has more to do with the fact that any untrained yokel can go down to Wal-Mart and arm himself. I'm more concerned about the people that have ridiculous visions of themselves "taking down the bad guys" just like in the movies.

To suggest that the actions of this security guard is some kind of argument against gun control isn't very compelling.
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Old 12-11-2007, 07:55 AM   #19
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Originally posted by maycocksean
A key factor, I'd say.

You know I really don't have a problem with trained professionals carrying weapons (even if they're off duty or retired).

My stance on gun control has more to do with the fact that any untrained yokel can go down to Wal-Mart and arm himself. I'm more concerned about the people that have ridiculous visions of themselves "taking down the bad guys" just like in the movies.

To suggest that the actions of this security guard is some kind of argument against gun control isn't very compelling.
Agreed.
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Old 12-11-2007, 02:56 PM   #20
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abcnews.com

Security Guard Who Confronted Gunman in Colorado Megachurch Part of a Growing Trend
By MARCUS BARAM

Dec. 11, 2007 —

Volunteer security guards like the woman who confronted the gunman at the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo., this weekend are part of a growing trend at houses of worship around the country.

More of the country's 1,200 megachurches places that attract more than 2,000 parishioners per week are hiring guards or assigning armed parishioners to patrol, according to insurance executives and church officials.

"We urge every church to form a security and safety team," said Eric Spacek, the senior church risk manager at the GuideOne Center for Risk Management, which advices houses of worship on security procedures.

"Some churches have their own volunteers doing security, some contract it out to a security company, others hire their own guards like off-duty cops. We see controlled access, keyless entry doors, video surveillance and other measures taken by congregations."

Yet, violence remains a small part of claims made to the firm, according to Spacek. Five percent of church claims are crime-related and of those 80 percent are for theft and burglary with less than 1 percent related to violence on church property.

Jeanne Assam, a former cop in Minnesota, killed Matthew Murray, 24, in the hallway of the New Life Church, Sunday. The 42-year-old parishioner was hailed as a hero by the church's senior pastor, the Rev. Brady Boyd. "She probably saved over a hundred lives," Boyd said, adding that Assam had used her personal weapon.

Normally, Assam was Boyd's personal security guard but due to reports of the shooting at a Christian ministry near Denver earlier in the day that left two dead, she was reassigned and stationed in a rotunda of the church.

"That's the reality of our world," Boyd told reporters Monday. "I don't think any of us grew up in churches where that was a reality, but today it is."

The stationing of an armed guard and the presence of a few dozen other guards patrolling the church, which contained 7,000 congregants at the time, helped prevent a bigger tragedy, according to experts in church security.

"They handled it real well," said Chuck Chadwick, the founder of the National Association of Church Security & Safety Management. "So thankful that they had the foresight to have armed people there. It's a Godsend this happened, that she was able to head it off."

Chadwick says that he was working in corporate security when the Dallas-based Fellowship Church recruited him soon after Sept. 11 to help protect its congregation. Over the next few years, as the church grew from 6,000 to 20,000 congregants a weekend, Chadwick started meeting with a few other local church security experts to trade ideas. He eventually formed the Gatekeepers Alliance, which has since been renamed to NACSSM.

Over the last few years, his membership has mushroomed and now includes 230 churches around the country. Chadwick has also formed his own company, Gatekeepers Security Services, which provides licensed guards and video surveillance to more than a dozen churches in Texas.

"We think that any church that has at least a couple of thousand congregants a weekend should have at least one armed guard," said Chadwick, who says that some churches have been slow to take precautions because they feel that they're immune from violence.

Though churches are considered peaceful places of worship, they occasionally attract violence because they sometimes draw people who are troubled and prone to act out.

After a series of fires and burglaries at Baptist churches in Greenville, N.C., influential pastor Bishop T.D. Jakes organized an annual security conference three years ago to help churches deal with danger.

"It appears that evil and wickedness is abounding in an unprecedented way," Jakes said in a statement on his Web site announcing this year's conference. "It seems to be aimed at those of us who seek to do God's will. "

The conference also deals with other church-related crimes like embezzlement and child sexual abuse.

The government has also stepped in with the U.S. Homeland Security Department recently creating a grant program of nearly $50 million to improve security for religious and secular nonprofits considered at risk of terrorist attack.

And don't expect to see metal detectors in churches yet. "Unless a church gets blown up, we're not going to see that," said Chadwick.
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