Lanois/Eno vs. Lillywhite

[namkcuR]

Here's the thing: Steve Lillywhite isn't 1/50 the producer that both Brian Eno and Daniel Lanois are. Eno and Lanois are artists. When they work with the music, they apply that artistry. By using atmospherics. By adding ambiance. By figuring out what kind of production will allow each song to have the maximum possible impact, and applying it to said each song, whether that mean making it louder or going for the less-is-more approach.

Now, I don't mean to make this look like a Lillywhite-bashing thread, but it really does seem to me like he is not very interested in those artistic aspects of production. He's interested in making it rock and making it loud.

I don't know. I just feel like Eno and Lanois have something Lillywhite doesn't and probably never will.

 

[BVS]

I think there's something to be said for both styles.

 

[babyman]

they're the 5th the 6th and the 7th member of U2

 

[bathiu]

Eno and Lanois are over, they proved it on ATYCLB killing almost every song... Lillywhite even made a comment that he didn't like the production on that album.

Lillywhite, on the other hand, proved on HTDAAB that he can make "fresh" sounding music TODAY (yeah, I remember about the other 15 producers on HTDAAB, but he was the most important one)

 

[Norse]

Well that all depends on which you like more ATYCLB or HTDAAB.

Personally I am more for Behind but thats just me.

As for production, I really dont have any favorites. They all produce different types of music and have different reactions with U2. I just dont see the point in comparing War with JT or anything like that.

 

[namkcuR]

Eno and Lanois are over, they proved it on ATYCLB killing almost every song... Lillywhite even made a comment that he didn't like the production on that album.

Lillywhite, on the other hand, proved on HTDAAB that he can make "fresh" sounding music TODAY (yeah, I remember about the other 15 producers on HTDAAB, but he was the most important one)

What are you talking about? Eno/Lanois killed ONE song on ATYCLB(Stuck), that's it. Lillywhite killed at least two songs on HTDAAB. Original and Crumbs are both great songs, I love them both, but they are overproduced.

 

[lazarus]

I'm a HUGE Brian Eno supporter. In my opinion, after hearing Zooropa (possibly the best produced U2 album) and Passengers I've been convinced he should produce each album ALONE.

However, you can say what you want about the song quality on ATYCLB, but there's no doubt in my mind that the album was overproduced in parts. The canned horns on Stuck is just one example.

Hasn't it occurred to anyone that Lanois may be more to blame than Eno? He was the one who thought U2 were making a big mistake with Achtung Baby. It was only when Eno arrived that he capitulated to the new direction.

The worst thing that could happen to U2 is a solo Lanois production. While I love his solo work and production of albums by Willie Nelson, Emmylou Harris, and Peter Gabriel, he seems very tame when working with U2.

Steve Lillywhite came in and cleaned up a mess. It's hard to give him complete credit or blame for HTDAAB because Chris Thomas must share it.

If Lillywhite gets to do the next album solo we'll know how much he's improved since War. But I'm hoping they'll ask Eno to shepherd what should be an off-the-cuff album recorded between legs of this tour. It would be phenomenal. We've had two albums now of good songwriting--it's time for the band to loosen up a bit and go exploring one last time...

laz

 

[U2DMfan]

I'm a HUGE Brian Eno supporter. In my opinion, after hearing Zooropa (possibly the best produced U2 album) and Passengers I've been convinced he should produce each album ALONE.

Hasn't it occurred to anyone that Lanois may be more to blame than Eno? He was the one who thought U2 were making a big mistake with Achtung Baby. It was only when Eno arrived that he capitulated to the new direction.

The worst thing that could happen to U2 is a solo Lanois production.

laz

Agree 100%. Eno and Lanois are not one and the same. Zooropa was a brilliantly recorded album, props to Eno and Flood.

 

[djerdap]

What are you talking about? Eno/Lanois killed ONE song on ATYCLB(Stuck), that's it. Lillywhite killed at least two songs on HTDAAB. Original and Crumbs are both great songs, I love them both, but they are overproduced.

Kite is probably the most brutally killed song in the production process. I almost can't listen to the studio version, due to the poor mixing. The phenomenal live versions made up for it.
Stuck and Elevation are another examples of bad overproduction.

The Bomb is also with many failures. City of Blinding Lights, Original and Crumbs are of very suspicious production quality.

So, at this point, U2 could go with another producer, like Brendan O'Brien or Rick Rubin... so lets make that rock album finally!

 

[D'oh!]

judging by what they have done with U2 - Boy, October and War are excellent albums and although HTDAAB is an awesome record, i just feel that Steve Lillywhite had a relatively smaller role to play with that album.
On the other hand The Unforgettable Fire, The Joshua Tree, Achtung Baby and All That You Can't Leave behind (JMO) are all outstanding records so obviously the Lanois/Eno and U2 combination works well.
I do hope that U2 work with Lanois and Eno again.

 

[Niamh_Saoirse]

I'll go for Lanois, but just because he bought me drinks one night.

Apart from that. I have to say that they both are very good and their individual work makes the album be what they are.

 

[typhoon]

I thought All That You Can't Leave Behind was overproduced until I heard How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb.

ATYCLB is probably the worst Eno/Lanois collaboration, but damn, HTDAAB still isn't even in the same goddamn ballpark (all strictly productionwise, mind). The arrangements were a bit grandiose, but it still holds up sonically. At least there's texture.

And at best, Lillywhite has, what, Boy and War under his belt? His production there was adequate, certainly--it stayed out of the way and supported the band--so I wouldn't call him a bad producer by any stretch. But we have Eno/Lanois to thank for The Unforgettable Fire and The Joshua Tree. The sonic landscapes on those albums are as important as the songs themselves.

They're just not even in the same league.

The worst you can say about Eno/Lanois is that they're too artsy fartsy (see the Passengers project or the soundtrack to The Million Dollar Hotel). But I'm glad the band isn't afraid to experiment, even if it gives us an "Elvis Ate America" every now and again.

 

[saltines17]

I hate Lillywhite's production. This is from listening to his work with U2 and DMB (my favorite band).

His production style is so controlling and the result usually sounds really fake and, for lack of a better word, "plasticky" as opposed to organic

 

[thrillme]

I'd say based on my favourite U2 albums and songs, for me, it's Lillywhite.

Top 5 U2 albums

War
Joshua Tree
Achtung Baby
October
Boy/How to.

3/5 Lillywhite
2/5 Eno & Lanios

My 4 way tie for fave U2 song
New Year's Day
Gloria
Hold me, thrill me
"Streets"

3 out of 4 Lillywhite produced. Lillywhite has a production credit for "Streets," Eno tried to "stage an accident" and erase it, not sure I'd should give Eno and Lanois the credit for that one.

Lillywhite I think let U2 have more fun, at least that's what I read from a recent interview.

You know on "I Will Follow" Bono is breaking bottles in the background, while Lillywhite ran a knife in bicycle spokes.

Not that I don't like Eno & Lanois work, far from it, I just happened to prefer Steve's work, based on my personal favourites.

Edge has a production credit for Zooropa, so you can't say that's entirely an Eno/Lanois produced album.

I really don't understand all the production problems some state various albums have, maybe I just don't hear them or know how to recognise them.

 

[U2girl]

I prefer Lanois and Eno, though I think ATYCLB was lacking in more Adam and HTDAAB is lacking in more Larry.

That said, maybe it's time to move on from either of those three if the fact they produced contributed to the "U2 sound" in the last album, and partially on ATYCLB.
I don't know if they can do it on the 3rd album in a row and get away with it.

 

[Aardvark747]

I think there's something to be said for both styles.

Agree

 

[ultraviolet353]

Eno/Lanois is the best recipe...period.

 

[Leebonoman96]

Not even close

 

[bsp77]

So, at this point, U2 could go with another producer, like Brendan O'Brien or Rick Rubin... so lets make that rock album finally!

Brendan O'Brien

 

[Flying FuManchu]

LOL at the idea of Lillywhite being 2nd rate... he's had a long career and didn't he work on Achtung Baby and Joshua Tree as well in some capacity. People on this board also "luv" Flood but he had hand on the production as well.

I find it funny that someone considers, for instance, a song's production on ATYCLB to be bad that Lanois is to blame but something sounds good Eno should get the props. I mean there is no clear evidence of who did what on that album IMO.

ATYCLB was too "weak" in the sense that songs came off slow and lacking power as opposed to the live versions. For instance... Walk On and Stuck and Elevation. Who would you blame for that? IMO if Lillywhite had produced those songs, they wouldn't sound as weak but more direct. But then its a matter of taste or one's own subjective wants so

 

[TheRooster]

I love Boy and War but I also love Achtung, Zooropa and JT. Both styles are great, I would have liked to seen a little more fusion on the lastest album. Lillywhite was a natural choice to come in for Chris Thomas on the "rock" album, but probably the grungiest, heaviest song is produced by Eno. I think a new producer would be good for U2, to spark some new ideas and reactions. I would love to see them team up with Nigel Godrich. I mean God is in his name.

 

[lazarus]

I find it funny that someone considers, for instance, a song's production on ATYCLB to be bad that Lanois is to blame but something sounds good Eno should get the props. I mean there is no clear evidence of who did what on that album IMO.

Well the only thing we have to go on is that Eno produced Zooropa WITHOUT Lanois and to many ears it's the best SOUNDING U2 album, regardless of how you feel about the songs. It sounds just as fresh as it did 12 years ago. Passengers, while not as good, is also produced very well.

We also know that Lanois DID NOT like the direction U2 were taking with Achtung Baby. That leads me to believe that his approach with U2 when alone might not be the best. When we're talking production we're not just discussing sound quality but also the sound of the songs themselves. U2 record in a very exploratory way, and the producer is certainly part of that. ATYCLB sounds to me like Eno took a backseat. The idea on that album was to spend more time writing, less time recording. That method goes against most of what makes U2 and Eno great artists, and that's why the songs are great but the RECORDINGS sound underdeveloped. Much more so to me than POP, which was supposedly unfinished.

I don't know if it was his idea or Eno's to use the abysmal synth-horns in stuck, but it sucked. As for Love & Peace or Else, to correct the above post, Eno AND Lanois were the ORIGINAL producers. Chris Thomas, Jacknife Lee and Flood all did additional work that may have made it the kick ass track that it is now.


laz

 

[Flying FuManchu]

But from my understanding, Lanois did most of the production for Achtung did he not? That was the impression I got from reading Flanagan's book. Didn't Edge and Flood participate in Zooropa's production as well? Eno took a back seat in ATYCLB... maybe? He also played a lot on ATYCLB which might mean he did not. Again there is no clear knowledge of who did what considering Lanois is considered an Eno protege.

 

[U2girl]

I find it funny that someone considers, for instance, a song's production on ATYCLB to be bad that Lanois is to blame but something sounds good Eno should get the props. I mean there is no clear evidence of who did what on that album IMO.

Exactly.

If I'm not mistaken Lanois spends most of the time with the band and Eno just walks in the studio from time to time to check on things. Still, that doesn't mean they all - band and those two - don't decide what goes on the album together.

If anything Lanois doesn't get enough credit; he won a Grammy for Achtung Baby and he produced 5 or 6 songs alone on it.

IMO the horns (btw: those are real - check the liner notes) worked well for Stuck. Oddly enough, it was Eno that made a bet with Bono this would be their biggest hit since With or without you.

BTW my favorite U2 albums sound wise are AB and JT.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

I would love U2 to work with a different producer but IMO that would probably mean never seeing a new U2 album till the end of 2010.

 

[yolland]

Eno and Lanois are artists. When they work with the music, they apply that artistry. By using atmospherics. By adding ambiance. By figuring out what kind of production will allow each song to have the maximum possible impact, and applying it to said each song, whether that mean making it louder or going for the less-is-more approach.

Now, I don't mean to make this look like a Lillywhite-bashing thread, but it really does seem to me like he is not very interested in those artistic aspects of production. He's interested in making it rock and making it loud.

I agree with these characterizations, but I don't see where they prove that one or the other is superior. I think they simply reflect two different philosophies of producing. All three men are WIDELY admired in the music business for their skill as producers, so it's unlikely that the very different qualities they bring to a record reflect major differences in competence.

Plus, it's not like U2 are passive victims of the whole process. They're the ones who choose which producer(s) to use for each album, and I think you have to assume that choice reflects their own ideas for what kind of sound they want the end product to have. Likewise, they share in the responsibility if that end product is lousy.

 

[Zoots]

How is it that some of you are able to discuss in such detail about each producer's involvement on each album when their names are all over the place. HTDAAB's liner notes lists Lillywhite, Lanois AND Eno, not to mention others as well (albeit Lillywhite as the main producer). The Joshua Tree is similar... produced by Lanois and Eno, mixed by Lillywhite, recorded by Flood. I don't understand how you can know for sure who was involved to what extent.

By the way, Zooropa lists Flood, Eno and The Edge.

 

[Zoots]

Oh... and as much as I like HTDAAB's songs much more than ATYCLB, I think ATYCLB was definitely better produced. The volume wasn't turned way the fuck up.

 

[bonosleftone]

Eno/Lanois is the highest its ever been IMO.

Lillywhite is good too but Eno/Lanois has not been topped.....yet.