Bono on Jesus...

[BostonAnne]

I just wanted to make sure that everyone knows that just because Catholicism wasn't for me, it doesn't mean that I don't believe that it can work for others. I didn't mean to come off as bashing Catholicism if I did. If I had been brought up with Catholic parents that taught at home and were involved I might have a different view. I didn't see the community side of the Catholic Church and never felt a connection to the Priests and Nuns at my parish. All I personally felt was I wasn't good enough and I had to recite prayers to repent.

 

[pax]

In that sense, I am all the more disappointed in the ridiculous legislating, in the hateful groups who picket funerals of AIDS victims, the various groups screaming about fire and brimstone and hell and so on. These people are not sharing Christ's message in the way that He intended it to be shared, IMO. And yet there they are, marring the rest of the Christian world, and making it so difficult. To be honest, most days, it is Christians who make it hard for me to be one of them.

Yes.

 

[2Hearts]

it seems to me that god comes to earth.

Isn't one of the attributes of God omnipresence? He doesn't have to leave Heaven in order to come to earth. I don't think the concepts of 'people going to be with God' or 'God coming to be with people' are all that different. Physical location isn't important. Also, we are given a description of a Holy City that clearly does not already exist on this earth.

To really address your question, I guess there could be a discrepancy b/w Revelation 21 and tradition if 'going to be with God' is interpreted in the physical sense.

 

[2Hearts]

double post

 

[Se7en]

To really address your question, I guess there could be a discrepancy b/w Revelation 21 and tradition if 'going to be with God' is interpreted in the physical sense.

it really isn't a matter of "going to be with god" as it is a matter of supposedly "going to heaven." it would appear that god and the new jerusalem descend to earth. people don't float away on a cloud to some magical happy place.

 

[2Hearts]

Point taken.

 

[indra]

I just wanted to make sure that everyone knows that just because Catholicism wasn't for me, it doesn't mean that I don't believe that it can work for others. I didn't mean to come off as bashing Catholicism if I did.

Oh I don't think you did at all. I strongly believe each person has to find what works best for them, and obviously Catholicism wasn't it for you. I've known people who started out Catholic and changed to another denomination; I've known people who started out in another denomination who switched to Catholicism. I don't notice a whole lot of difference in them, but they do, and that is what matters.

 

[Halifax]

You know, I wasn't even aware that there is a difference between Cotholicism and Christianity until a couple of years ago . Heck, I didn't even know that those two were different brands .

Note: I was 17, so don't give me wierd looks.

 

[indra]

You know, I wasn't even aware that there is a difference between Cotholicism and Christianity until a couple of years ago . Heck, I didn't even know that those two were different brands .

Note: I was 17, so don't give me wierd looks.

Hey, I still don't see much difference. I see Catholicism is simply a brand of Christianity, just as Methodist, Lutheren, Baptist, "Born Again" (wasn't quite sure how to put that last one) and many others are.

I think of them as different rock bands -- they are all rock, they just all have a different sound.

I do imagine others will disagree with that though.

 

[MadelynIris]

Originally posted by anitram


In that sense, I am all the more disappointed in the ridiculous legislating, in the hateful groups who picket funerals of AIDS victims, the various groups screaming about fire and brimstone and hell and so on. These people are not sharing Christ's message in the way that He intended it to be shared, IMO. And yet there they are, marring the rest of the Christian world, and making it so difficult. To be honest, most days, it is Christians who make it hard for me to be one of them.

Right - this "branding of Christianity" happens so much in here, when in fact what you describe are people who profess to be part of a "christian organization" and are not necessarily followers of Christ's teachings.

So, believe it or not, for the last few years, my family and I, and some other believing associates have dropped the term "Christian". We're going with "Christ Follower" or "Believer".

I know it might seem silly to get hung up on semantics, but it reminds us all that we aren't about the political groups, or the pre-estabished agendas. We're about following Christ.

 

[financeguy]

Whether or not Bono is a 'true Christian' or does or does not accept Jesus as his Lord and Saviour matters not a jot to me. He can believe in Jesus, Buddha, the pink unicorn at the end of his garden for all I care.

The cynic in me wonders what public figure alive today will be worshipped by some as a Messiah in 2,000 years time.

 

[financeguy]

To be honest I can kind of understand why some Christians don't consider Roman Catholicism to be part of the Christian Church.

That papal infallibility thing for example, what's the deal with that?

 

[BonosSaint]

I think I've stopped believing in most people's words (including my own). I just follow their actions.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by anitram:
In that sense, I am all the more disappointed in the ridiculous legislating, in the hateful groups who picket funerals of AIDS victims, the various groups screaming about fire and brimstone and hell and so on. These people are not sharing Christ's message in the way that He intended it to be shared, IMO. And yet there they are, marring the rest of the Christian world, and making it so difficult. To be honest, most days, it is Christians who make it hard for me to be one of them.

Right - this "branding of Christianity" happens so much in here, when in fact what you describe are people who profess to be part of a "christian organization" and are not necessarily followers of Christ's teachings.

Have you honestly seen much of that going on in FYM? I haven't.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Hey, I still don't see much difference. I see Catholicism is simply a brand of Christianity, just as Methodist, Lutheren, Baptist, "Born Again" (wasn't quite sure how to put that last one) and many others are.

I think of them as different rock bands -- they are all rock, they just all have a different sound.

I do imagine others will disagree with that though.

Well, I agree with you . A good way of putting it.

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest
because no matter how hard we try, we can never be "good enough".

Not saying we should be egotistical little people who think we're just nothing but perfection-obviously there should be humility involved, but at the same time, that sounds rather depressing to me, that belief. It sounds awfully defeating.

I dunno, maybe it's not supposed to come across that way, but that's what it sounds like to me .

Also, a to what anitram's said, too.

Angela

 

[verte76]

I don't think you're anti-Catholic BostonAnne. With your background I can see why you wouldn't want to fool with Catholicism. I had a bad experience with conservative Protestantism myself, but it was the creeps at the church I grew up in who turned me off. They were racist, and to this day I don't think you can be racist and Christian at the same time. Of course I realize decent Protestants are not racist, and they're the majority, I just let a few bad apples turn me off. I was only a kid. My own brother-in-law had some bad experiences being raised a Catholic also. He went to Catholic schools and the nuns beat up on him with rulers. That's not acceptable. He does attend mass every so often but there's no way his wife, my sister, would ever become Catholic. Ever. She's not even a Christian. That's her business. I don't think about it. A person has to choose when it comes to religion, no one can do that for you.

 

[nickypiemcg]

Just curious how many have read the in Conversation w/ Bono book. Does Bono seem more up front and direct about his faith than ever before? It may just be the nature of the book or just the way I am reading it but he seems to be bringing most everything in the book back to his faith. Just one quote that sticks out to me: (I just finished the book today).

Author: ...Christ has his rank among the world's great thinkers. But Son of God isn't that a bit farfetched?

Bono: No, It's not farfetched to me. Look, the secular response to the Christ story always goes like this: he was a great prophet, obviously a very interesting guy, had a lot to say along the lines of other great prophets, be they Elijah, Muhammad, Buddha, or Confucious. But actually Christ doesn't allow you that. He doesn't let you off the hook. Christ says: No. I am not saying I'm a teacher, don't call me teacher. I am not saying I'm a prophet. I'm saying "I am the Messiah." I'm saying: "I am God incarnate." And people say: No, no please, just be a prophet. A prophet we can take. Your a bit eccentric. We've had John the Baptist eating locusts and wild honey, we can handle that. But don't mention the "M" word! Because, you know, we are going to have to crucify you. And he goes: No, no. I know you're expecting me to come back with an army, and set you free from these creeps, but actually I am the Messiah. At this point, everyone starts staring at their shoes, and says: Oh, my God, he's gonna keep saying this. So what you're left with is: either Christ was who He said He was- the Messiah- or a complete nutcase. I mean, we're talking nutcase on the level of Charles Manson. This man was like some of the people we've been talking about earlier. This man was strapping himself to a bomb, and had "King of the Jews" on his head, and was they were putting him on the cross, was going: OK, martyrdom, here we go. Bring on the pain! I can take it. I'm not joking here. The idea that the entire course of civilization for over half of the globe could have its fate changed and turned upside down by a nutcase, for me, that's farfetched...

what a load of nonsense christianity is

 

[80sU2isBest]

Re: Re: Bono on Jesus...

what a load of nonsense christianity is

Thank you for telling me. I didn't know that til you told me. Now that I know it's nonsense, I think I'll drop my Christian beliefs. I'm glad you could come up with such a convincing argument.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Not saying we should be egotistical little people who think we're just nothing but perfection-obviously there should be humility involved, but at the same time, that sounds rather depressing to me, that belief. It sounds awfully defeating.

I may be a very good person as far as the standard of the world, but by the standard of God, I don't measure up. That's because God's standard is nothing short of perfection. None of will have perfect flesh until after our deaths, we are given glorified bodies. However, our spirits can be made perfect - that's what happens when a person becomes a Christian - his "sin" slate is washed clean, and he is given a new, perfect spirit. It is that perfect spirit which allows a Christian to be in the presence of God.

 

[shart1780]

I've been saying this for well over a year only to be called a close-minded fundamentalist, then when Bono says it he gets resounding "Amens!" and Hallelujahs!".

If Christ is THE messiah he is the only way. He's not A Messiah.

 

[indra]

I've been saying this for well over a year only to be called a close-minded fundamentalist, then when Bono says it he gets resounding "Amens!" and Hallelujahs!".

If Christ is THE messiah he is the only way. He's not A Messiah.

Not from everyone he didn't. From me he got my usual response -- if it works for him that's good. Same as I'd give to you.

But if he tried to tell me it was what I needed to believe, he'd also get my usual response to that -- fuck off.



I still don't quite get how so many people who are such strong believers in a god as "The God" can't seem to even consider the possibility that supposedly all powerful, all knowing god can create different belief systems -- some which work better for some people, some which work better for others -- that all eventually get to the same end.

Ah, well, not really my concern though.

 

[80sU2isBest]

I've been saying this for well over a year only to be called a close-minded fundamentalist, then when Bono says it he gets resounding "Amens!" and Hallelujahs!".

If Christ is THE messiah he is the only way. He's not A Messiah.

I don't know. I think the ones that are saying "amen" and "hallelujah" in this thread aren't the ones who have been telling you you're colse-minded. I'm called the same thing for my views, but not by those who agree with Bono in this thread.

 

[shart1780]

I don't know. I think the ones that are saying "amen" and "hallelujah" in this thread aren't the ones who have been telling you you're colse-minded. I'm called the same thing for my views, but not by those who agree with Bono in this thread.

While I agree with Bono on what he said there, I still disagree with him on ALOT of issues. Sometimes Bono seems very contradictory of himself...

 

[BVS]

While I agree with Bono on what he said there, I still disagree with him on ALOT of issues. Sometimes Bono seems very contradictory of himself...

Don't we all.

 

[Irvine511]

i also don't see why the ideas of Jesus being completely and totally insane as well as being the Son of God are mutually exclusive.

one might require the other.

 

[nbcrusader]

But if he tried to tell me it was what I needed to believe, he'd also get my usual response to that -- fuck off.

Everything you know, you've learned from someone else.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I may be a very good person as far as the standard of the world, but by the standard of God, I don't measure up. That's because God's standard is nothing short of perfection. None of will have perfect flesh until after our deaths, we are given glorified bodies. However, our spirits can be made perfect - that's what happens when a person becomes a Christian - his "sin" slate is washed clean, and he is given a new, perfect spirit. It is that perfect spirit which allows a Christian to be in the presence of God.

Ah. That makes more sense now. Thanks for the clarification .

Also, ditto indra's post .

Angela

 

[jphelmet]

I still don't quite get how so many people who are such strong believers in a god as "The God" can't seem to even consider the possibility that supposedly all powerful, all knowing god can create different belief systems -- some which work better for some people, some which work better for others -- that all eventually get to the same end.

That is awful when people have strong beliefs, and try to tell people how they should believe.

Oh wait, you are telling people that there way is not right, and they should just believe the way you do...

 

[80sU2isBest]

That is awful when people have strong beliefs, and try to tell people how they should believe.

Oh wait, you are telling people that there way is not right, and they should just believe the way you do...

Then if you believed with all your heart that you knew the truth, a truth of eternal consequence, you woudn't tell your friends?

 

[Irvine511]

Then if you believed with all your heart that you knew the truth, a truth of eternal consequence, you woudn't tell your friends?

you can tell them, and maybe you should tell them, but you should also respect them enough to allow them to disagree with you and when they say "stop preaching at me" you should stop because all faith must be tinged with humility because you cannot ever, ever know if your faith is "correct" -- so to speak -- until you die.

this being the collective "you."

and it's also offensive, downright patronizing, to believe that you're hooked into a greater truth than they are.