MERGED --> Da Vinci Code - What's up??? + 'The Da Vinci Code' Fizzles at Cannes

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susanp6 said:
Not quite sure what you mean there Liv :confused:

Dan Brown's "woman" in the Last Supper painting, it's one of the Disciples (John I think). There's no WAY DaVinci would've omitted one of the Disciples from the painting in order to include Mary Magdalene. Think of how popular Brown's book is now, how (supposedly) controversial it is....back then, the Church would've literally had DaVinci's head if he'd painted what Brown thinks he did. That's my opinion based on my knowledge of church history. I also asked my housemate about it, because I've never studied art and she's getting a masters in fine arts/art history to become an art museum curator. She said that this painting has not been very well preserved, so first it's important to note that the way it looks today is different from how it looked when it was painted. Look at everyone else in the painting. If John is supposedly a woman, then so are half of the other Disciples and Jesus. They look just as feminine as Brown's Mary Magdalene. Also, she explained to me a bit about DaVinci himself. He was obsessed with beautiful males, so it makes no sense that a man fixated on men's bodies would risk his life to paint a woman into a painting of an event where thirteen men were present.

We had a long discussion regarding the book, her giving her opinions based on studying art history and me giving mine based on studying theology, and we both agreed that Brown really spoils the novel by making such absurd assumptions about one of the most famous pieces of art in history.
 
Young men often look feminine in Da Vinci's (and other artists' paintings).

300px-Leonardo_da_Vinci_025.jpg
 
My mum is going to the premier in London on Monday.

BTW, there was a documentary about the secret societies mentioned in the Code tonight (Freemasons, Knights Templer, Soviegn Military of Malta, Priory de Scion as well as the Bilderberg).


The reporter concluded that none of them are sinister (the ones that actually existed that is). In the end he sought to find out what it is that makes people want to believe in conspiracy theories and intrigue, and the reason is because it is far more exciting, simple as.
:wink:
 
first of all:

I have never read the davinci code, but I did read angels and demons and I will say Dan Browns writing is pretty flawed because a lot of the characters actions don't make any sense once you get to the end of the book

lastly, my biology teacher told my class that of the "codes" that Da Vinci wrote around 95 of them led to the final result of the word "penis":wink:
 
I've never really bought into most conspiracy theories. Everything I've seen about human nature tells me that people are too clumsy, flawed, and emotional to pull off the kind of "vast, overarching conspiracy" that movie makers and pulp novelists promote. These conspiracies need serious discipline, loyalty and focus from far too many people to be even remotely plausible.

Once in high school me and four buddies created an alternative identity called The Joker that played pranks on people. We created a bit of a mystique for a short while, but right after graduation we revealed our identities on the spur of the moment. We couldn't keep it quiet. I think it's that way with most conspiracies. People can't keep it quiet.

There was this article on Slate. com that pointed out based on some kind of mathematics, that if Jesus had had children, by now virtually every living person in the world would be one of his descendants. So much for the Merovingians having Him all to themselves.

The Bible actually never said Mary Magadelene was a prostitute. I think that was an idea that Christians just kind of adopted over time. I read an excellent novel on the life of Mary Magadelene, "Mary Called Magdalene." Can't remember the author, but quite good.
 
maycocksean said:

There was this article on Slate. com that pointed out based on some kind of mathematics, that if Jesus had had children, by now virtually every living person in the world would be one of his descendants. So much for the Merovingians having Him all to themselves.


:eyebrow: Fuzzy math...
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


:eyebrow: Fuzzy math...

Yeah, I know, that's what I thought too. I was like, "no way--how is that possible." But it sounded pretty convincing. . . course I'm not a math whiz (you might recall my "word problem" thread).

I'll have to find the link and post it. I'm just so damn lazy right now.
 
I've never really bought into most conspiracy theories. Everything I've seen about human nature tells me that people are too clumsy, flawed, and emotional to pull off the kind of "vast, overarching conspiracy" that movie makers and pulp novelists promote. These conspiracies need serious discipline, loyalty and focus from far too many people to be even remotely plausible.

I agree. I do not beleive all the controversy that surrounds the death of Princess Diana, the JFK assassination, 9/11 or the moon landings. However, there have been some conspiracies that have turned out to be true (ie: Watergate, cigerettes impact on health) or at least partially true (ie: aspartame toxity, the involvement of Nixon and Henry Kissenger in the overthrow of Allende in Chile).

I think it's nieve of people to believe that someone is
always innocent and any bad things that occur is by circumstance or coincidence. I have had to do a report on the involvement of Western corporations in third world countries and what impact this has on the global economy for my International Marketing module at uni, and I did come accross some of the history of the US government envolvement. My view is that Nixon was a very shaddy character who tried his upmost to prevent left-wing governments comming to power in Latin American countries because of America's business interests.
 
There's a special on the History Channel tonight about Opus Dei

I don't get this, that book wouldn't change what I believe/don't believe one iota or make me believe that about Opus Dei. I would like to see the poll, maybe they slanted it somehow to reinforce their beliefs about the "dangerousness" of the book and movie.

LONDON (Reuters) - "The Da Vinci Code" has undermined faith in the Roman Catholic Church and badly damaged its credibility, a survey of British readers of Dan Brown's bestseller showed on Tuesday.

People are now twice as likely to believe Jesus Christ fathered children after reading the Dan Brown blockbuster and four times as likely to think the conservative Catholic group Opus Dei is a murderous sect.

"An alarming number of people take its spurious claims very seriously indeed," said Austin Ivereigh, press secretary to Britain's top Catholic prelate Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor.

"Our poll shows that for many, many people the Da Vinci Code is not just entertainment," Ivereigh added.

He heads a prominent group of English Roman Catholic monks, theologians, nuns and members of Opus Dei, who commissioned the survey from leading pollster Opinion Research Business (ORB) and have sought to promote Catholic beliefs at a time when the film's release has provoked a storm of controversy.

ORB interviewed more than 1,000 adults last weekend, finding that 60 percent believed Jesus had children by Mary Magdalene -- a possibility raised by the book -- compared with just 30 percent of those who had not read the book.

The English group demanded that the "Da Vinci Code" movie, being given its world premiere at the Cannes Film festival on Wednesday, should carry a "health warning".

The group, which stopped short of following the Vatican line of calling on Catholics to boycott the film, accused Brown of dishonest marketing based on peddling fiction as fact.

The novel, which has sold over 40 million copies, also depicts Opus Dei as a ruthless Machiavellian organization whose members resort to murder to keep the Church's secrets.

The survey underlined the astonishing popularity of Brown's novel -- it has been read by more than one in five adults of all ages in Britain.

Ivereigh complained that Brown and film studio Sony Pictures "have encouraged people to take it seriously while hiding behind the claim that it is fiction.

"Our poll shows they should take responsibility for their dishonesty and issue a health warning."

In the survey, readers were asked if Opus Dei had ever carried out a murder. Seventeen percent of readers believe it had, compared with just four percent of non-readers.

Opus Dei spokesman Jack Valero said he was astonished.

"Since we were founded in 1928, Opus Dei has promoted the highest moral standards at work, spreading a message of Christian love and understanding," he said.

"Yet the Da Vinci Code has persuaded hundreds of thousands of people that we have blood on our hands."
 
There have been reports of people who have had very serious reactions to the sweetener. Read Sweet Poison by Janet Starr Hill, I think she also has her own website. This women is now conspiracy crackpot, she is a proffeser at a top university in America. She knows a lot about the damage caused by overloads of man-made additives can do.

Even our local bakery no longer bakes diabetic cakes with aspartame in it anymore. The lady who runs it has been given information about it's risks to health. They are trying to ban it here in the UK.
 
Key word there being "overloads" and "there have been reports". There are common foods that contain more aspartame than the supposedly dangerous foods.
 
First review = :up:

First Review of 'The Da Vinci Code'

Tuesday , May 16, 2006

By Roger Friedman

FOXNEWS


'The Da Vinci Code'



The 2006 Cannes Film Festival started unofficially tonight with a wildly anticipated screening for the press of Ron Howard's "The Da Vinci Code." After all the buzz, the hype, the controversy, Cannes was ready to make news tonight. I think even the lovely head of the press office, Christine Aimé, was happy to see this one finally pass through her area.

Howard's adaptation of Dan Brown's absurdly realized thriller is going strong, it works on the level of "Apollo 13," "A Beautiful Mind" and the best of his beautifully realized films.

When "The Da Vinci Code" takes a brief wrong turn, though, and Howard momentarily loses control of his huge, streamlined vehicle, it's hard to say where to put the blame. I vote for screenwriter Avika Goldsman.

But right now you want to know is: Is "The Da Vinci Code" a good movie? The answer overall is yes.

For most of its overlong two and a half hours, the film is enticing. And surprising in that it's not Tom Hanks — solid as usual — or French film star Audrey Tautou who make the movie tick. It's Sir Ian McKellen, who appears about a quarter to half way through the proceedings and very sublimely scores himself an Academy Award nomination.

Hanks and Tautou, on the other hand, have thankless jobs. They have to propel Dan Brown's bizarre story forward without getting in the way. They do that just fine, but often come off more as Mulder and Scully in "The X Files" than as passionately charged leads. Some may argue with their choices, but I think it was the only way out when the material — a huge best-selling novel with gigantic expectations from its audience — outweighs the actor's opportunity to shine. To say they each emerge unscathed is a compliment — believe me.

You probably know the basic story of "The Da Vinci Code." I never did read the book, maybe on purpose because I wanted to judge it as a film only. It's a thriller, the key element being the search for the Holy Grail.

In this case, the grail is supposed to be the last living descendent of Jesus and Mary Magdalene. The clues to all this are found in the Louvre Museum, filed under "Da Vinci." Maybe if Dan Brown had filed them under Leonardo he would have had an easier time figuring the whole thing out. Leonardo was his name and Da Vinci was his address.

Anyway, there are complications as Hanks plays a Harvard expert on symbology. But he is realty a modern, younger, long-haired hip American version of Jacques Derrida let out on long leash. He is really a semiotics expert looking for a spot on Oprah, sort of Indiana Jones trying to find meaning where there isn't any.

Tautou is the granddaughter of a man who holds the key to the code, but doesn't get to impart it to anyone. McKellen is the antagonist who propels them to find an answer.

I don't want to sound vague, but nobody — not even readers of the book — wants spoilers in a review. The real success of the movie is that Howard maintains the suspense of the story even when you're pretty sure where it's headed. The cinematography, music and lighting are superb. And for the most part, Goldsman's screenplay — while very long — lets us play along. Unfortunately, he treats some of the story lazily, as if it were "Batman" and Tautou were a female Bruce Wayne searching for her roots.

You can almost feel a shift as the movie turns away from its course and heads into difficult territory. When the big reveal comes, the audience I was with was so uncomfortable that they laughed at the wrong moment. I suspect that won't be the case when the film plays in theaters; regular audiences are going to take this seriously. But I wish it had been done a different way.

Howard, smartly, senses there's a problem and immediately tries to undo the damage by letting Tautou almost mock the reveal. Howard, you see, has a beautiful mind himself, so he knows how to dig himself out of trouble.

Is "The Da Vinci Code" the best movie of 2006? Probably not. But it's a good movie, a solid entertainment with much to recommend it. The only people who could be unhappy with it are Opus Dei, which is fairly well attacked as represented in excellent performances by Paul Bettany, Jean Reno and Alfred Molina.

Mainstream audiences will take this for what it is: superb escapism, excellent summer entertainment and ambitious filmmaking.
 
I hated those who deified "The Passion of the Christ," and I'm already hating those who are vilifying "The Da Vinci Code."

They're movies. Not scripture. Not timeless masterpieces. I'd suggest directing one's goutrage where it actually matters.

Melon
 
It's not that the Last Supper wasn't very well preserved, it's that it has had several "retouches" over the centuries b/c parts of the painting were fading. The big deal is that for the first time, the technology has been developed to successfully strip away all the layers of paint down to what Da Vinci actually painted, without damaging it. And the portrait of "John" that has emerged is radically different than the image that is in most art textbooks (at least the ones that a vast majority of today's generation has been presented with.) All I can say is....yes, men often look feminine in his paintings (he WAS gay) but they weren't as small as "Mary", didn't have such obviously feminine features, delicate hands, I could go on and on....for someone who's never seen the updates image, just tell me that that is NOT a woman....:eyebrow:


About Opus Dei....I think the "secrecy" that critics accuse it of is a lack of actual understanding about what members do. Are they missionaries, working in remote villages in Africa, for instance? Teachers? Where do they teach and preach? Are members connected to the Vatican? What exactly ARE their duties? This is the one thing that all the stories on OD and their website) STILL don't open up on. We've never seen an image of, or read an interview by, your average Opus Dei memeber talking about what they do. There's never been a photo spread of The Typical Working Day of Your Average Member. And when we see actual photos of things like "the discipline", and read interviews that imply it is still in usage and "it inflicts no more pain than a bee sting" or whatever, that makes me suspicious, anyway.

And I'm glad someone knows what I'm talking about! My head was spinning like Linda Blair when I put down that series, about 6 yrs ago. In the 2nd book, I thought, "Okay, the enemy is the Catholic Church, and I can understand why he attacks them", like I said, the "pro-femenist" slant of the book and its ideas predate DVC. But like LiveandLuv said, in the 3rd book, the actual enemy is the Christian God, and the premise of the book is "we have to work to establish not the KINGDOM but the REPUBLIC of Heaven", thus implying that Christianity by its very nature is demogoguic and tyrannical and anti-humankind. You want to fling the thing from your room but the beautiful, budding love story between Jack and Lyra keeps you glued, and while I won't spoil the ending, it has one of the most tear-jerking endings (revealed in poisonously, heart-stoppingly beautiful prose that will haunt you for days)...I use the word "poisonous" because after you finish the 3rd book you feel as if you've mentally drained a draught of sweet wine from a lead-encrusted ancient Roman goblet. The beverage is a delight to the palate but you are being poisioned also. It's a horrible inversion of Tolkien and Lewis...the exact opposite of Tolkin's "hope without guaruntees." It would have been so much easier to swallow if Lewis had been an athiest, b/c athiest are bigger "believers" than most believers. it takes courage to think you do not believe in God. It is a conscious choice and almost always made from great personal pain. Thus, they have hope of redmeption. But someone who has simply lost faith and is bitter against God is far more difficult to redeem. That, to me, is Pullman.

I wouldn't recommend the series to any child under 12. Not because they couldn't understand it (heck, I was reading James Michener's "The Source" at 12 and understanding it just fine) but b/c they're a lot smarter than you think and this series is possibly the absolute most damnable (and persuasive) argument AGAINST Christianity itself I have ever read. It's brilliant propaganda, wrapped within the confines of a charming love story. THE DVC isn't anti-Christian, it's merely anti-Catholic. But this series really is openly anti-Christian. You'd have to read it to see what I mean. It really does put DVC to shame. If it was an adult series, and sold as such, people would be firebombing his house. I had to go a week without reading ANYTHING to cleanse my head of it.

Oh and BTW.....Najeena....nice to see you in this thread!

:wink: You got my card I hope?
 
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bonsai said:


I agree. I do not beleive all the controversy that surrounds the death of Princess Diana, the JFK assassination, 9/11 or the moon landings. However, there have been some conspiracies that have turned out to be true (ie: Watergate, cigerettes impact on health) or at least partially true (ie: aspartame toxity, the involvement of Nixon and Henry Kissenger in the overthrow of Allende in Chile).

I think it's nieve of people to believe that someone is
always innocent and any bad things that occur is by circumstance or coincidence. I have had to do a report on the involvement of Western corporations in third world countries and what impact this has on the global economy for my International Marketing module at uni, and I did come accross some of the history of the US government envolvement. My view is that Nixon was a very shaddy character who tried his upmost to prevent left-wing governments comming to power in Latin American countries because of America's business interests.

Yeah, that's the thing though. All the "real" conspiracies (e.g. Watergate etc) are clumsily done and only marginally successful.
 
I've just been reading on several sites that the audience was laughing and jeering and that several critics panned it. I'm surprised that Ron Howard made a bad movie out of this if it's really that bad.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
I've just been reading on several sites that the audience was laughing and jeering and that several critics panned it. I'm surprised that Ron Howard made a bad movie out of this if it's really that bad.

Well, that's a whole other story. If it's a bad movie, regardless of any religious controversy, then it deserves jeers just like any other bad movie.

Melon
 
nbcrusader said:
:giggle: deep cited Fox News...

:lol:

http://www.filmstew.com/Content/Article.asp?ContentID=14090&Pg=2

"It's safe to say that most of this Friday's reviews of The Da Vinci Code will deem the flick a disaster. Critics from large U.S. media outlets were overheard tonight in Cannes calling the film a “snore”, a “bore” and giving it an Ebert & Roeper-worthy big thumbs down."

I didn't watch the Opus Dei special last night, I was too busy watching American Idol :shifty:
 
http://newsbusters.org/stories/dv.html?q=node/5402

"Lauer took the bull of controversy more directly by the horns when he interviewed the cast and director Howard today. Said Lauer:

"There have been calls from some religious groups, they wanted a disclaimer at the beginning of this movie saying it is fiction because one of the themes in the book really knocks Christianity right on its ear, if Christ survived the crucifixion, he did not die for our sins and therefore was not resurrected. What I'm saying is, people wanted this to say 'fiction, fiction, fiction'. How would you all have felt if there was a disclaimer at the beginning of the movie? Would it have been okay with you?"

There was a pause, and then famed British actor Ian McKellen [Gandalf of Lord of the Rings], piped up:

"Well, I've often thought the Bible should have a disclaimer in the front saying this is fiction. I mean, walking on water, it takes an act of faith. And I have faith in this movie. Not that it's true, not that it's factual, but that it's a jolly good story. And I think audiences are clever enough and bright enough to separate out fact and fiction, and discuss the thing after they've seen it."

With the camera focused on McKellen, one could hear a distinctly nervous laugh in the background, seeming to come from either actor Tom Hanks or director Howard. McKellen's stunning bit of blasphemy is likely to test the adage that all publicity is good publicity."
 
Opus Dei has a lot of power.

They are most likely influencing the reviews so the movie will tank at the boxoffice and go away.

They may have even had their people involved with the editing just to mess things up.


one of the interns in the editiing room was named Fibonacci
 
I'll be seeing the movie on Sunday with a group from my church and then we're going to order pizza and discuss it after. I'm excited about seeing it, hopefully it will be good. There are several movies that I like that critics loathed.

It's fiction, I'm going to see a (hopefully) good movie with an interesting plot, I don't care what anyone else says.
 
Hey, when the VATICAN is leading the charge agsinst the film, if they had panned THE PASSION in advance, I'd bet a lot of critics would know where their bread was buttered, and write accordingly. It seems like some of the critics at least have a politcal agenda. When normally We always have something good to say about any film: Variety takes to attacking the score and the cinematography in two (count 'em ) sentences, you know something's up. When Drudge has a scathing attack on the albino monk character from an albino advocate society BEFORE the film has even been seen (I mean, come on, he could have put it up on the site the moment the book's filming was announced, and I read Drudge daily), you know they're digging for something. It's not like people had no idea who the Silas character was for 3 yrs. A big compalint about the film seems to be "it's no FUN", a couple people have used that word.

To be honest, I didn't like the choice of director or actor. I'm sorry, folks, but I have no sentimental fondness for Opie. A Beautiful Mind was a big fat snooze, (Apollo 13 was similarly slow-paced; the suspense of the story itself luckily propelled it forward.) Tom Hanks has lost alot of his mojo, though he is redeemable IF he gets inot a role. The whole project, from the director to the actors to the screenwriter, was handed to people who haven't had a hit since the 2001 Oscar high and needed a hit badly. Brown wanted ralph Fiennes for the role but of course in a big Hollywood blockbuster the lead HAS to be played by a Yank....:(

So I'm not one of those who was ready to praise the film to the skies before it opened, on the basis of the artistic merit. For me, it was fifty-fifty. It was also a question mark of critical response; after the fiasco of BBM not winning the Best Pic Oscar this yr I knew they were a bunch of spineless cowards. I also know they're not above politcs.

And to those people (like the NY Times) who ask questions like "So does Tom Hanks 'become' Robert Langdon?" it 's a silly question to ask, since Langdon and Sophie have all the character development in the book of a paper bag. The Harrison Ford comment was about all. The book was a real snooze on that account, and for me, that's a big account. I wasn't saying the book was well written by any means. It isn't.

Part of the "politcal agenda" (at least in the US) might be this: recently such films such as The Passion and Narnia, the so-called "Christian" community has been recognized as a vital new box-office force in a time of shrinking profits. If DVC is a massive hit, then it would be just like the TIME review said: the first "secular humanist hit." The mag's use of that word is interesting and very revealing. It's not in the habit of throwing it round liberally.

Maybe the chemistry between Hanks and Toutou is missing. Maybe the acting is wooden. Finding the film a little too long at 2 1/2 hrs is suspicious since other 3-hr + films have been tolerated nicely. Even films with bad acting and a bad script (Titanic anyone?) Maybe the film feels long and drawn-out, and that's a major screenwriting flaw. It can't be as bad as the "disaster" they're calling it...the Fox review was honest. But people are not drawn to the novel for its being a rip-roaring murder mystery. They're drawn for IDEAS. And believe me, it's much easier to lose interest in a long, slow-paced book these days (Umberto Eco anyone?) than in a slow-paced film that leaks the same ideas. People are not going to see this film b/c of the suspenseful plot (and Friedman says the suspense is there.) They're going to see what the controversy is about. And they sure are NOT expecting the movie to be "fun" (!!). So that ploy may not work. In the end, the only thing will be word of mouth. And the film has a very strong score (Zimmer hasn't gone worng yet.)

I think the film would have been attacked if it WAS as good as, say, Fellowship of the Ring (another popular novel with a huge fan base not easily adapted to the screen.) I think many in the politcal and cultural arena are just afraid of a film that forces people to THINK and ask questions...esp if they go against the party line...and no matter how good or bad it is, technically. Are summer films supposed to be fun? God forbid anything in America makes you THINK these days. And that is the big question mark.

As to the film's box office success....the critical (and political) establishment hopes that a torrent of negative reviews will have the same effect on box office as they did with King Kong and Munich. And beleive me, if the film is doing very well next week, the more money it makes, the more savage will the attacks become. It'll be like Revenge of the Sith all over again. But Everyone knew the story of King Kong so they didn't go, and Munich was about terrorists (n the poluar mind) so it wasn't good entertainment. This one though has the potentail to be interesting and entetaining. But this film has a far higher awareness base and there are few people out there who don't know the story. I suspect the critics who laughed and jeered at the "Princess Sophie" line had not read the book....one reviewer said he deliberately hadn't read it. The general public knows apparently what these benighted individuals don't. If you hadn't read the book, and if the acting is as wooden as they say, that might make you laugh. "THIS is what it's all about?!?!" But the public won't be surprised. As one reviewer wrote, "They'll take it very seriously."

It all boils down to this: is the public as hungry for a film about IDEAS as Howard and his spottily-skilled team think they are, or is the American public to be forever served a diet of cinematic McDonalds to keep them fat, lazy, and stupid? We will see. It is the fact that this film is challenging the Political-Religious Complex that what makes it so dangerous, whatever its technical flaws. Even if the film is slow-paced, with lousy acting, a dragging script and other flaws, even if it's a "bore", I'm one of those who will support it for this reason. There's much at stake. I'm a fan of the book's general premises about women and the church, NOT the specifics. I could care less about the symbols etc. I'm not a rabid Brown worshipper, like some fans are. And I'm not defending his book from crtics who say it is a well-written as a dime store pulp novel. Most best-sellers aren't these days. But someone had to do it. And with the controversy, the public who is holding out on seeing it b/c of bad reviews may wonder how it is a bore.

If the filmmakers have tapped into something in the public, if they sense a public hungry for ideas, and the film does very well, then it will join the long pantheon of deeply flawed films that have been panned by critics but have been popular classics. The most famous of these being a film that the New York Times, in its first review, famously called "The Sound of Mucus" (and which most critics still don't like.) I admit, that film is a little too sugery-sweet for my taste, though I enjoy much of it.
 
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deep said:
Opus Dei has a lot of power.

They are most likely influencing the reviews so the movie will tank at the boxoffice and go away.

They may have even had their people involved with the editing just to mess things up.


one of the interns in the editiing room was named Fibonacci

Were gonna need a new acronym for this conspiracy!
 
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