Global Pandemic Part V: Enjoy a Corona while flying Delta

[iron yuppie]

I wish I knew more about who or what determines that something has become endemic. From my limited reading, it seems subjective - subjective enough to push this cycle of soft closures well into the future.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by iron yuppie

I wish I knew more about who or what determines that something has become endemic. From my limited reading, it seems subjective - subjective enough to push this cycle of soft closures well into the future.

The politicization of covid is what will keep these soft closures going

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

That's not how most viruses work.

A virus, like all living things, has one goal - survival.

The variants that have the best chance of survival will win the evolutionary battle. A deadlier variant that is as transmissible as Omicron will either burn itself out or destroy itself by destroying the hosts.

Obviously anything is possible but it's much mu,ch much more likely that the virus continues to evolve into something that is endemic like seasonal flu or the common cold. Those things both kill tens of thousands of people a year, as our gzus loving friend told us in the past.

This is the most likely path of COVID-19, and it is likely already happening with omicron.

I’m no virologist or pathologist or whatever, but I’m pretty sure that’s how we got over just about every pandemic in the past (human failure followed by nature).

[gump]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

That's not how most viruses work.

A virus, like all living things, has one goal - survival.

The variants that have the best chance of survival will win the evolutionary battle. A deadlier variant that is as transmissible as Omicron will either burn itself out or destroy itself by destroying the hosts.

Obviously anything is possible but it's much mu,ch much more likely that the virus continues to evolve into something that is endemic like seasonal flu or the common cold. Those things both kill tens of thousands of people a year, as our gzus loving friend told us in the past.

This is the most likely path of COVID-19, and it is likely already happening with omicron.

I see this repeated all the time, but that's not exactly right though.

Sheahan pointed to several examples such as the Ebola virus, which was discovered in 2016 to have undergone a mutation that not only made it more transmissible but likely more infective. This variant eventually died when the epidemic ended in 2016. The West Nile virus was found in 1999 to have mutated into a highly virulent strain, killing crows on multiple continents.

The 1918 Spanish flu pandemic, estimated to have killed at least 50 million people worldwide, is another example, said Chua.

A May study out of the Robert Koch Institute in Berlin, Germany, found evidence that the virus responsible did mutate into more lethal variants. These deadlier strains, responsible for three later influenza outbreaks, likely made the virus better at spreading between humans rather than birds, its natural hosts, and better at evading the immune system.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ly/7839167002/

Coronaviruses tend to infect other people before their host dies, which means that a more severe virus can still be quite successful from an evolutionary perspective.

Which, again, shows how stupid it was to hoard vaccines.

[Vincent Vega]

I think it's important to keep in mind that mutations in viruses are no controlled, or steered processes. Neither is evolution. Viruses are no sentient beings that can somehow target their mutations. When people speak of it's in the best interest of the virus not to kill its host, then that may well be true, but it shouldn't be mistaken for the virus actually having such a thing as an interest, or any way of influencing how it achieves said interest. That's a bit of anthromorphism at work, I'd say.

A "perfect storm" of a mutation that makes a virus highly contagious and highly deadly therefore is a possibility. And such a virus would only fail eventually because it doesn't have enough hosts left to infect.

With omicron, we may have got a bit of a lucky break. But as long as we allow the virus to (almost) freely run rampant in large parts of the world, we basically allow for all kinds of mutations to occur. Some beneficial, others less so. And thus we can only hope that variants such as omicron continue to crowd out other variants, where the mutations may line up less favourably.

[BEAL]

Agree. We are rolling the dice with every mutation.

Right now what's going on in the US means it's very likely for another variant and who really knows what it'll produce.

Throw in the same with Africa and other parts of the world that have no access to vaccines. China is another place that scares me in that their vaccine provides little to no protection against it, but they have the "advantage" of mass lockdowns without Karen's overthrowing government.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i would do anything for love, except take a life saving vaccine.

[Bluer White]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

I’m no virologist or pathologist or whatever, but I’m pretty sure that’s how we got over just about every pandemic in the past (human failure followed by nature).

I'm no virologist either....we can still try to work on the human failure part. International health should outweigh former United States NIH boss Collins' hope for 'international harmony.'

US scientists who downplayed COVID-19 lab leak origins theory sang a different tune in private, emails show
https://news.yahoo.com/us-scientists...112247541.html


Bret Baier on COVID Lab Leak Theory: "There Is Only One Narrative That They Want Out There"
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...out_there.html

'Special Report' host Bret Baier on the COVID lab leak theory: "Secretary Pompeo very forward-leaning when it came to the investigation of it. A lot of people ask why is this important now? Because, well, we're going to fight this pandemic but there could be others down the road. We have to get to the origins of where this thing started."

"What's frustrating is there is this effort that you see in emails to kind of squelch any other talk. And the definition of science to try to investigate and get to the truth. But, in these emails at least privately, there is only one narrative that they want out there," Baier said on his Fox News show on Tuesday.

[Vincent Vega]

The headline of the article is already pretty suggestive (big surprise, given it's Fox News), but in essence it's not as scandalous as it tries to make it seem. Scientists, or any people, discussing different theories or suspicions in private emails more freely than what they say publicly? And doing so because they weigh the wider implications of what they say in public and determining that this should only be done if evidence became more solid? Those are the kind of considerations any responsible person should make. It even states in the article that they convened a conference with international scientists, but apparently the international community also was not sufficiently convinced that the lab leak theory had enough merit to go public with it. As everyone in the article stated, evidence pretty quickly lead away rather than towards the lab leak theory.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by Bluer White

I'm no virologist either....we can still try to work on the human failure part. International health should outweigh former United States NIH boss Collins' hope for 'international harmony.'

US scientists who downplayed COVID-19 lab leak origins theory sang a different tune in private, emails show
https://news.yahoo.com/us-scientists...112247541.html


Bret Baier on COVID Lab Leak Theory: "There Is Only One Narrative That They Want Out There"
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...out_there.html

'Special Report' host Bret Baier on the COVID lab leak theory: "Secretary Pompeo very forward-leaning when it came to the investigation of it. A lot of people ask why is this important now? Because, well, we're going to fight this pandemic but there could be others down the road. We have to get to the origins of where this thing started."

"What's frustrating is there is this effort that you see in emails to kind of squelch any other talk. And the definition of science to try to investigate and get to the truth. But, in these emails at least privately, there is only one narrative that they want out there," Baier said on his Fox News show on Tuesday.

i don't mean this to be snarky and i'm looking for a real and honest answer here...

does the right think that proving that the origins were a leak from a Wuhan lab is going to absolve Trump and his minions of their mind numbingly awful response to the pandemic?

[BEAL]

In some roundabout way they probably think so.

I think it drums up the talk of going to war against China, as the right has been itching for more fights. Though I am kinda surprised that a lot of the GOP congress has been supportive of Ukraine. Most of the FoxNews, OANN, Right Media have sided with Russia

[BEAL]

Good news on the vaccine for children though. Sounds like it'll be approved soon

[Headache in a Suitcase]

i'm really only interested in bluer white's response to that. i know what the left thinks... i want to hear it from the horse's mouth

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by BEAL

In some roundabout way they probably think so.

I think it drums up the talk of going to war against China, as the right has been itching for more fights. Though I am kinda surprised that a lot of the GOP congress has been supportive of Ukraine. Most of the FoxNews, OANN, Right Media have sided with Russia

Russia knows who to pay.

[Bluer White]

Originally Posted by BEAL

Agree. We are rolling the dice with every mutation.

Right now what's going on in the US means it's very likely for another variant and who really knows what it'll produce.

Throw in the same with Africa and other parts of the world that have no access to vaccines. China is another place that scares me in that their vaccine provides little to no protection against it, but they have the "advantage" of mass lockdowns without Karen's overthrowing government.

Sweden to lift pandemic restrictions next week
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...ek-2022-02-03/

STOCKHOLM, Feb 3 (Reuters) - Sweden will lift pandemic restrictions next week despite record levels of infections as it banks on booster shots and high rates of past COVID-19 infections to keep hospitalisation rates manageable.

..........Sweden stood out early in the pandemic by spurning lockdowns, mainly relying on voluntary measures focused on social distancing and good hygiene, though somewhat tighter restrictions were gradually adopted in successive waves.

It has seen deaths per capita run much higher than in its Nordic neighbours but lower than most European countries that opted for lockdowns.

Some recommendations, such as getting vaccinated and isolating at home when sick, will remain in place and they will be more restrictive for the unvaccinated, Health Minister Lena Hallengren told the news conference.


Progress, in Sweden and some other European countries. The U.S. is on its way. Canada (and its trucking industry) are on their way, too

[VintagePunk]

Originally Posted by Bluer White

Canada (and its trucking industry) are on their way, too

Despite what FOX News is telling you, the protests in Ottawa are by no means an industry-wide phenomenon with wide support. According to the Canadian Trucking Alliance, the vaccination rate among Canadian truckers is approximately 85 percent, in line with the general population. When the protestors gathered last Saturday, there were reports of no more than a few hundred tractor trailers involved, and 400-ish private vehicles. Reports since last weekend say the protest has been "scaled-down" so I'm sure it's far fewer now.

Reports also say that the citizens of Ottawa are fed up by police inaction. Truckers have blown their horns all hours of the night, keeping residents and their children awake, desecrated statues of national heroes, harassed workers and volunteers at a soup kitchen and demanded food, harassed healthcare workers walking to their jobs, harassed mask wearers, and the list goes on. It's also been found that a great deal of the funds that have come in to support this movement have come in from the US - shocking, I know.

If FOX has led you to believe that this protest is going to change anything here, or influence anyone, I would suggest you stop listening to their propaganda and find some better sources. In fact, it seems like the already low tolerance for this protest has decreased a lot over the past few days and I wouldn't be surprised if police start making more of an effort to arrest and charge some of the protestors.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

i don't mean this to be snarky and i'm looking for a real and honest answer here...

does the right think that proving that the origins were a leak from a Wuhan lab is going to absolve Trump and his minions of their mind numbingly awful response to the pandemic?

still nothin', huh?

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by VintagePunk

Despite what FOX News is telling you, the protests in Ottawa are by no means an industry-wide phenomenon with wide support. According to the Canadian Trucking Alliance, the vaccination rate among Canadian truckers is approximately 85 percent, in line with the general population. When the protestors gathered last Saturday, there were reports of no more than a few hundred tractor trailers involved, and 400-ish private vehicles. Reports since last weekend say the protest has been "scaled-down" so I'm sure it's far fewer now.

Reports also say that the citizens of Ottawa are fed up by police inaction. Truckers have blown their horns all hours of the night, keeping residents and their children awake, desecrated statues of national heroes, harassed workers and volunteers at a soup kitchen and demanded food, harassed healthcare workers walking to their jobs, harassed mask wearers, and the list goes on. It's also been found that a great deal of the funds that have come in to support this movement have come in from the US - shocking, I know.

If FOX has led you to believe that this protest is going to change anything here, or influence anyone, I would suggest you stop listening to their propaganda and find some better sources. In fact, it seems like the already low tolerance for this protest has decreased a lot over the past few days and I wouldn't be surprised if police start making more of an effort to arrest and charge some of the protestors.

It’s been unsurprising to see how excited conservative media has gotten over these Canadian protests, and how helpful posts like yours (and others I’ve come across in social media) slap some reality into the situation.

Mandates work. Our anger and frustrations should be directed at the unvaccinated. It is their fault we still are where we are.

[BEAL]

I would add that our inability as rich nations to vaccinate Africa and other parts of the world just as much to blame.

Until we get a variant from a Karen, right now our biggest block to getting the pandemic over with is getting rest of the world caught up.

But....if we didn't have a national party plus it's right wing media outlets pushing pro covid talking points and behavior, we could be like Denmark and other countries lifting restrictions completely.

I also don't get this talking point that we're shut down either. What is closed still? California has a indoor mask mandate for another 11 days, but I can go into any business. My yoga studio requires masks until you're on the mat, but over the last week everyone is saying fuck it and maybe 20% of people wear masks indoors.

[VintagePunk]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

It’s been unsurprising to see how excited conservative media has gotten over these Canadian protests, and how helpful posts like yours (and others I’ve come across in social media) slap some reality into the situation.

Mandates work. Our anger and frustrations should be directed at the unvaccinated. It is their fault we still are where we are.

The conservatives will do anything to amplify their message to make it seem like they have validation, when the reality is, especially here, it is a relatively small group of very loud voices.

One of the funniest and most interesting results that have come out of this protest is that the current Conservative leader, who has dithered back and forth between courting the protestors and denouncing them (the latter occurring after one of the statue incidents - Terry Fox, a Canadian hero who is considered sacrosanct by pretty much everyone, had his statue defaced by the protestors), lost the confidence of the party and was put up for a leadership vote by the Conservative party caucus on Wednesday, then was promptly voted out as party leader. His handling and remarks about the protests were not the sole cause of this - he lost the federal election last fall, and his days have been numbered since - but it was certainly the straw that broke the camel's back. The selected interim leader is a MAGA-hat wearing Member of Parliament who has had an email released in the past day or so saying that she wants to make the protests seem like "Trudeau's problem." Other than denouncing the protestors in a speech earlier this week, Trudeau has mostly stayed above the fray. He's been at home, isolating after catching COVID from his kids. So our federal Conservative party is being split into two factions, the moderates and the extremists. Will be interesting to see where this goes, and who they eventually choose as leader, and whether the party is even viable in foreseeable elections.