Extremists open fire at Paris satirical newspaper, kill 12

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by DaveC

I would say 25% is an extremely low estimate of the "stupid, intolerant, or ignorant" proportion of human society.

[elevated_u2_fan]

Originally Posted by DaveC

I would say 25% is an extremely low estimate of the "stupid, intolerant, or ignorant" proportion of human society.

Yeah, I don't know where he's living but it's pretty much 50/50 over here in North America...

[deep]

in America only 40% can do basin mathematics,
the other 65% can't even do that

[cobl04]

Why it's wrong to blame western policies for the Paris attacks | Left Foot Forward

thoughts?

[Vlad n U 2]

I tried reading it, but I couldn't get through this part without cringing.

Others on the far left like the inveterate anti-American journalist Glenn Greenwald

I wouldn't have guessed it was a left wing site if it wasn't for me having read the about page.

[Vincent Vega]

Originally Posted by mama cass

you have to bear in mind that sometimes the FN is used as a protest vote in France, like in the European elections last year, and the general elections in 2002, and, some would say, in the last general elections, with the French basically scaring the shit out of the more moderate politicians and population, but then rallying together for the second and final round of the elections to stop the extreme right getting in... although it has been getting way too close for comfort, and is very worrying indeed...

it can be quite taboo here to admit voting for the FN in certain circles, and many people vote secretly for the FN, so it's very complex... however, people i know of personally who openly vote for the FN state anti-Europe, anti-arab, anti-muslim and anti-immigration reasons, "France for the French", so make of that what you will... i don't know many intellectuals and business people personally who vote FN - the people i know personally in such positions tend to be left-wing academics, or UMP-voting business people... here, where i live, the vocal FN voters are blatantly racist, anti-immigration, anti-Europe, anti-Muslim and apparently not afraid to say so... i have one educated apparently intelligent acquaintance, French national but of Asian origin, who openly admits to voting FN because of immigration which i find mind-blowing...

France indeed has a very special culture when it comes to voting. You also have these kind of voters here. In one election, the far-right parties scored relatively well, four years later it was the Left, and the Nazis lost round about as much as the Left gained.

It's becoming increasingly acceptable for people to oppose immigrants, especially if they bring another religion with them.

Originally Posted by mama cass

f'king hell, Hezbollah? what is going on... too much agreement, it's hard to handle!

Hezbollah is ally with Assad and Iran-sponsored, so this is some propaganda trying to attack ISIS and probably coming across as the more reasonable terrorists (would fit into attempts by Assad to present himself as an appropriate partner).

Originally Posted by DaveC

I would say 25% is an extremely low estimate of the "stupid, intolerant, or ignorant" proportion of human society.

The exact numbers are rather irrelevant, but 25% is round about the figure that many populist and far-right parties could score in several European countries over the last few years.

My point is, this kind of support doesn't merely represent some frustrated unemployed high-school dropouts, but goes through all parts of society. And the issue of islamophob attitudes, where Islam is confused with extremism, is a societal one as well, and not contained within just one group in society.


Many people are attacking Charlie Hebdo and its cartoonists for the Mohammed caricatures and call them racist, without knowing much about the satirists background or their political leanings. DailyKos has collected a number of cartoons by Cabu, one of the four killed: The Charlie Hebdo cartoons no one is showing you.

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by Vincent Vega

Many people are attacking Charlie Hebdo and its cartoonists for the Mohammed caricatures and call them racist, without knowing much about the satirists background or their political leanings. DailyKos has collected a number of cartoons by Cabu, one of the four killed: The Charlie Hebdo cartoons no one is showing you.

[mama cass]

link to this week's Charlie Hebdo cover... Muhammad with an "I am Charlie" sign, header saying "All is forgiven"

nuanced and many layered as always

it is not only a reflection of events, the outpouring of support and condemnation of the attacks, but also a big middle finger to repression of freedom of expression, possibly with sarcastic undertones in the header aimed at the French authorities/all political parties/all religious institutions too given their history with the magazine

it's perfect

http://www.huffingtonpost.fr/2015/01...frhpmg00000001

eta: and just wow "French satirical magazine’s surviving columnist says cover is a call to forgive the terrorists who murdered her colleagues last week"... incredible response... see they were just a bunch of sweet big-hearted funny people trying to make sense of the world thru their cartoons...

http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...ophet-muhammad

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by deep

in America only 40% can do basin mathematics,
the other 65% can't even do that

[Babydoll]

Originally Posted by deep

in America only 40% can do basin mathematics,
the other 65% can't even do that

Basin mathematics? Like doing math over a sink?

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by cobl04

Why it's wrong to blame western policies for the Paris attacks | Left Foot Forward

thoughts?

i would say the reasons were ideology (not to be confused with a whole religion or race) and the resulting radicalisation of the most vulnerable, marginalised by racism itself, ghettoization, discrimination and unfair treatment in French society (ironically, all of which were issues that Charlie Hebdo criticised and called the authorities out on)

the Charlie Hebdo attack was a specific punitive action by an ideology and the supermarket attack was an antisemitic attack again by an ideology, the first apparently carried out by Al Quaida and the second ISIS, both profiteering from the plight of marginalised and stigmatised young people in France

interesting response from Luc Besson, open letter to young French Muslims...

Luc Besson writes open letter to young Muslims after Charlie Hebdo killings | World news | The Guardian

[mama cass]

just got my copy, feels incredibly sad though

[Hewson]

Originally Posted by deep

in America only 40% can do basin mathematics,

What percentage can do basic spelling?

[Diemen]

Rserach sohws taht spleilng ins't taht imprtoant for raideng comephrnsion, thuogh.

[Teta040]

France is suddenly concerned about its Jews, just b/c there was a violent attack on them? How hypocritical. I can't help wondering what the response to the kosher shop attack would have been had it occurred in the white-hot political heat of last August. I'll bet a large swath of French society would have shrugged its shoulders and said: "Terrible and regrettable, but you reap what you sow. An eye for an eye. Score one for those poor Palestinian schoolkids today." Yes, a response like that would have been perfectly believable.

France is wondering why Jewish immigration to Israel is rising? WTF? Try looking in the mirror? Was NOBODY but Newsweek magazine (who did a cover story on this very subject) noting what was going on with Europe's Jews last August, when innocent ordinary Jews, all over the European continent, that had nothing whatsoever to do the Israeli-Palestinian conflict were getting the full brunt of abuse in many countries? Being treated as if *they* were the IDF? Such guilt by association doesn't happen to most foreign ethnic populations in most conflicts. I'll bet most people didn't bother to ask what side of the conflict those everyday Jews in the street were on, before they decided to hurl verbal abuse at them in the street, spray-paint the synagogues, damage their property, or (in the case of one sweet-looking little elderly Christian lady in a Scottish department store) refuse to give them customer service (before hurling time-honored anti-semetic slurs at them....the words were actually"you filthy murdering Jew" .) Banning them en masse from social events, theater shows, fund-raising charities etc. Making them feel like pariahs at the very least, and killing them or damaging their property at the most. Such extreme reactions are not born b/c you turned on the TV one day and saw awful things. It comes instead from something latent, something deep-rooted, something not easy to expel from the cultural memory.
And don't anyone try to deny these things happened or are still happening on such a grand scale, there is so much eyewitness testimony from Jews to whom these things have actually happened, in Jewish publications, far from global media outlets. I had a talk with a Jewish co-worker a couple months ago and there is a lot of fear. She said the climate for Jews over there is like the '30's right now. And this isn't your usual knee-jerk reaction to any blip of perceived persecution. It's a wave of fear on a whole 'nother scale, indeed the worst since the '30s.

If the Jews kill innocent Palestinians (in Europe's eyes, there no difference between an Israeli and a Europen Jew, apparently--all its domestic population might as well be IDF) then they deserve to be harassed. But when they're the victims of Muslim terrorists in Europe, they're all of a sudden objects of sympathy. It's a complicated situation, to say the least.

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by Teta040

France is suddenly concerned about its Jews, just b/c there was a violent attack on them? How hypocritical. I can't help wondering what the response to the kosher shop attack would have been had it occurred in the white-hot political heat of last August. I'll bet a large swath of French society would have shrugged its shoulders and said: "Terrible and regrettable, but you reap what you sow. An eye for an eye. Score one for those poor Palestinian schoolkids today." Yes, a response like that would have been perfectly believable.

France is wondering why Jewish immigration to Israel is rising? WTF? Try looking in the mirror? Was NOBODY but Newsweek magazine (who did a cover story on this very subject) noting what was going on with Europe's Jews last August, when innocent ordinary Jews, all over the European continent, that had nothing whatsoever to do the Israeli-Palestinian conflict were getting the full brunt of abuse in many countries? Being treated as if *they* were the IDF? Such guilt by association doesn't happen to most foreign ethnic populations in most conflicts. I'll bet most people didn't bother to ask what side of the conflict those everyday Jews in the street were on, before they decided to hurl verbal abuse at them in the street, spray-paint the synagogues, damage their property, or (in the case of one sweet-looking little elderly Christian lady in a Scottish department store) refuse to give them customer service (before hurling time-honored anti-semetic slurs at them....the words were actually"you filthy murdering Jew" .) Banning them en masse from social events, theater shows, fund-raising charities etc. Making them feel like pariahs at the very least, and killing them or damaging their property at the most. Such extreme reactions are not born b/c you turned on the TV one day and saw awful things. It comes instead from something latent, something deep-rooted, something not easy to expel from the cultural memory.
And don't anyone try to deny these things happened or are still happening on such a grand scale, there is so much eyewitness testimony from Jews to whom these things have actually happened, in Jewish publications, far from global media outlets. I had a talk with a Jewish co-worker a couple months ago and there is a lot of fear. She said the climate for Jews over there is like the '30's right now. And this isn't your usual knee-jerk reaction to any blip of perceived persecution. It's a wave of fear on a whole 'nother scale, indeed the worst since the '30s.

If the Jews kill innocent Palestinians (in Europe's eyes, there no difference between an Israeli and a Europen Jew, apparently--all its domestic population might as well be IDF) then they deserve to be harassed. But when they're the victims of Muslim terrorists in Europe, they're all of a sudden objects of sympathy. It's a complicated situation, to say the least.

You say "France is suddenly concerned about its Jews..."

You really are totally and utterly clueless...

Your post is probably the most despicable and uninformed load of crap I have ever read in here! Congrats!

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by mama cass

You say "France is suddenly concerned about its Jews..."

You really are totally and utterly clueless...

Your post is probably the most despicable and uninformed load of crap I have ever read in here! Congrats!

You know, there are more graceful ways of handling opinions you don't like.

You need to find a way of doing so without slinging insults.

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by Diemen

You know, there are more graceful ways of handling opinions you don't like.



You need to find a way of doing so without slinging insults.

Sorry Diemen, but i have seen far worse in Interference

Besides, that wasn't an "opinion", more like misinformation stated as fact. I have no patience when insulting baseless facts like these are thrown around so will add the poster to my ignore list to keep the peace

[Galeongirl]

There have been various attacks over the past years, and France has had attention for the every time. Heck, even the Dutch press covered these events. So to say that France is 'suddenly' concerned about the jews is pretty uninformed...

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by Galeongirl

There have been various attacks over the past years, and France has had attention for the every time. Heck, even the Dutch press covered these events. So to say that France is 'suddenly' concerned about the jews is pretty uninformed...

Thanks GG!
antisemitism, even "just" verbal abuse, is enshrined in French law and is treated as a crime, so "hypocrisy" is not even close!!