Steve Lillywhite On U2's 'No Line'

[An Cat Gav]

Quit hating on Passengers. It's a brilliant work of art.

 

[U2girl]

I like the idea of three chapters, as Dana (and I think Utoo in an earlier thread too) said: first 4 songs-middle 3 song break-last 4 songs. I view the "pop trio" as a natural break (see Trip and God's country on JT after that awesome opening 5 or so songs).

NLOTH is very much listenable as a piece of work. I said before Crazy may not *fit*, but I like how it stretches all the sounds they adopt on the album; like Edge said "all the lightbulb moments" from the past. What I would have done is put Breathe on #5 slot; it's a better song and the lyrics would fit in better after the lyrics on Unknown caller.

It seems U2 was always torn between the Morocco "one take songs" and the rest that went through the usual cycles of reworking so in the end they did a "best of" mix of both worlds (Daylight and Darkess EP mention from Bono, "record of two halves" first mention from Edge). Presumably Boots-SUC-Crazy is all that got left from the "non Morocco" material.

 

[redhill]

I like the idea of three chapters, as Dana (and I think Utoo in an earlier thread too) said: first 4 songs-middle 3 song break-last 4 songs. I view the "pop trio" as a natural break (see Trip and God's country on JT after that awesome opening 5 or so songs).

NLOTH is very much listenable as a piece of work. I said before Crazy may not *fit*, but I like how it stretches all the sounds they adopt on the album; like Edge said "all the lightbulb moments" from the past. What I would have done is put Breathe on #5 slot; it's a better song and the lyrics would fit in better after the lyrics on Unknown caller.

It seems U2 was always torn between the Morocco "one take songs" and the rest that went through the usual cycles of reworking so in the end they did a "best of" mix of both worlds (Daylight and Darkess EP mention from Bono, "record of two halves" first mention from Edge). Presumably Boots-SUC-Crazy is all that got left from the "non Morocco" material.

Thanks for the informative post.

 

[Salome]

So basically, they could have put any song in the #5 slot and you'd find some way to defend it. If it were something as deep as 1-4, you'd argue for the consistency. But this way you can say "the contrast is part of the journey". You can't lose. This is a load of crap to me.

I am not one of those people who gets off on bashing the albums this decade. There isn't one song on any of these last three albums that I dislike--I would rather have seen some of them as b-sides, but there isn't ANYTHING I skip over. Yet the way people bend over backwards to defend every artistic decision the band makes is really quite sad. If we can't see what they're up to, then we just don't "get it".

You say that the people who have issues with the lack of cohesion "will never enjoy this album fully". I could say the same thing about sycophants who are so blind to anything resembling a misstep; if you can never recognize something that doesn't work, you'll never understand the value of a true masterpiece.

I'm not saying there is anything to "get"
what I'm saying is that it seems a logical step to me to go from MOS/UC to Crazy tonight because otherwise it would get too much
and that people who don't like it now because of it being a break from what went on before won't ever like it
I can't say I would really care if no one except for me would like it, so I'm not particularly bothered

I like your insinuation (well, I guess you weren't merely insinuating so that might not be the right choice of words) that I would right every wrong that U2 does being the blind sheep that I am, but to be honest I don't think that's true at all
I honestly just don't get how people could experience song 5-7 as a complete sidestep from the rest of the album
personally I think that Stand up Comedy might just be a tad too much, but then again I do like the song and I guess the only other option had been a 10 track album

in the end it's just that for me personally pondering how hypothetically written songs could hypothetically improve the album if they had hypothetically been recorded doesn't sound like a formula to enjoy an album

 

[corcovadosong]

I'm not saying there is anything to "get"
what I'm saying is that it seems a logical step to me to go from MOS/UC to Crazy tonight because otherwise it would get too much
and that people who don't like it now because of it being a break from what went on before won't ever like it
I can't say I would really care if no one except for me would like it, so I'm not particularly bothered

I like your insinuation (well, I guess you weren't merely insinuating so that might not be the right choice of words) that I would right every wrong that U2 does being the blind sheep that I am, but to be honest I don't think that's true at all
I honestly just don't get how people could experience song 5-7 as a complete sidestep from the rest of the album
personally I think that Stand up Comedy might just be a tad too much, but then again I do like the song and I guess the only other option had been a 10 track album

in the end it's just that for me personally pondering how hypothetically written songs could hypothetically improve the album if they had hypothetically been recorded doesn't sound like a formula to enjoy an album

I don't necessarily think that the emotion is wrong, and there's nothing wrong about going from "darker" stuff to something a bit more light. But those emotions, if this is all just supposed to be an emotional journey (which, I disagree with very much), are presented in an extremely shallow way. It's a nice little pop song, but next to UC and really, even GOYB (which, which a little camp and trite, is in no way a normative communication of emotion), it's shallow. The "squeeze out sparks of light" bit is good, but if an album is supposed to be an "emotional journey" as some on this thread would say, I would expect those emotions not to be presented in a simplistic, shallow way. And the music does not help.

Part of enjoying an album is going deeper than just listening to it while you're driving. U2 albums, even HTDAAB, are good for that, because they've always got a lot sonically going in. I'm not saying, replace with "winter" or some other song, because I don't know them. all I'm saying is, the album picks me up and gets me going on a really wild trip, drops me at five, picks me up a bit at six, drops me back at seven, and then we're back and going again. I wish it didn't do that, and I think it's a testament to 1-4 and 8-11 that it accomplishes that transportation so well. 5-7, well, i'm just listening to another U2 album. Better than nothing, but it does feel unbalanced, and yes isolating and identifying the beautiful things on an album is extremely rewarding, even if it brings the bits that aren't into focus.

 

[lazarus]

What I would have done is put Breathe on #5 slot; it's a better song and the lyrics would fit in better after the lyrics on Unknown caller.

I've thought about this before, but then where is your big barnburner epic as the penultimate track? The band always seems to have one of these (Original of the Species not being a huge rocker but still intended to be epic), and there's really nothing to take its place, unless you put Winter in there. Which I know you won't agree with, but it would be pretty perfect to open the album with the personal, soul-searching stuff, and close with three war-themed songs in White As Snow, Winter, and Cedars of Lebanon.

in the end it's just that for me personally pondering how hypothetically written songs could hypothetically improve the album if they had hypothetically been recorded doesn't sound like a formula to enjoy an album

Well I didn't go into the album looking to fix anything. I took it on its own terms. But to me (and many others, as we know), it doesn't flow. It doesn't work as a whole piece. So that's when I started wondering about what could have been, and customizing my own playlist.

I would NEVER have done this in the peak years. I wouldn't touch anything on the studio albums from JT to Pop. But since that track order debacle on ATYCLB, the band's structural/song choices have been questionable. I always give them the benefit of the doubt, but wind up having issues once I give it a go.

 

[catlhere]

Once again it just comes down to our own ear for the music, and what we take from it. Everyone hears things differently so the debate is endless. Personally I think CT goes fine after UC. First you're hopeless and lost at the "top of the bottom", until the text messages free you from the uncertainty/addiction/whatever, and theres only one direction to go now, and thats up. So next the mood changes and you "start out the climb" full of purpose and determination. At least thats how I've always listened to it.

 

[ahittle]

I went in to the record keyed into the darker experimental stuff, but oddly I'm now drawn to the straightforward tunes, except maybe SUC. Crazy has wormed its way into my brain. I wouldn't have expected that.

Shout into the darkness
Squeeze out sparks of light

Love that.

 

[Popmartijn]

Whatever.
I was already LOL-ing within the first minute:
"U2 time is different to other band's time."

 

[U2girl]

I've thought about this before, but then where is your big barnburner epic as the penultimate track? The band always seems to have one of these (Original of the Species not being a huge rocker but still intended to be epic), and there's really nothing to take its place, unless you put Winter in there. Which I know you won't agree with, but it would be pretty perfect to open the album with the personal, soul-searching stuff, and close with three war-themed songs in White As Snow, Winter, and Cedars of Lebanon.

Stuff like Exit/New York/Acrobat/Dirty day ? They often put a rocker down in the low end of an album.

Well, how about a 10 album song ? I would like - I didn't try listening to it that way yet - the ending of Fez/WAS/Cedars.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Well, how about a 10 album song ? I would like - I didn't try listening to it that way yet - the ending of Fez/WAS/Cedars.

I quite like that ending. I don't need the break in between WAS/Cedars. The quiet double is fine by me, but I understand it perhaps needing a break for the wider audience. Breathe is just a little too sharp for me. I think Exit/Acrobat/Dirty Day are mood keepers, despite being rockers. I don't think New York matters as much because ATYCLB is more along that collection-of-songs vibe.

Personally, I like Breathe after SUC. It brings on a bit of a storm again after the three superficial 'fun' songs. Go from that into a finished/slightly different Winter, one that still starts very U2-ey but finishes very Eno-ey, which brings you back down to the darker side of the album. Then Fez/WAS/Cedars to close it off. Not so jumpy, a more organic ride, IMO.

 

[mikal]

I quite like that ending. I don't need the break in between WAS/Cedars. The quiet double is fine by me, but I understand it perhaps needing a break for the wider audience. Breathe is just a little too sharp for me. I think Exit/Acrobat/Dirty Day are mood keepers, despite being rockers. I don't think New York matters as much because ATYCLB is more along that collection-of-songs vibe.

Personally, I like Breathe after SUC. It brings on a bit of a storm again after the three superficial 'fun' songs. Go from that into a finished/slightly different Winter, one that still starts very U2-ey but finishes very Eno-ey, which brings you back down to the darker side of the album. Then Fez/WAS/Cedars to close it off. Not so jumpy, a more organic ride, IMO.

i'll try that.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

It's probably still missing something. I reckon if/when we get Songs of Ascent there'll be an explosion of merged tracklistings, no doubt there's one hell of an amazing single album between both.

 

[lazarus]

I quite like that ending. I don't need the break in between WAS/Cedars. The quiet double is fine by me, but I understand it perhaps needing a break for the wider audience. Breathe is just a little too sharp for me. I think Exit/Acrobat/Dirty Day are mood keepers, despite being rockers. I don't think New York matters as much because ATYCLB is more along that collection-of-songs vibe.

Personally, I like Breathe after SUC. It brings on a bit of a storm again after the three superficial 'fun' songs. Go from that into a finished/slightly different Winter, one that still starts very U2-ey but finishes very Eno-ey, which brings you back down to the darker side of the album. Then Fez/WAS/Cedars to close it off. Not so jumpy, a more organic ride, IMO.

That doesn't work for me. Too slow songs like that just don't work. It's going to make one seem a lot more boring than it already is.

And I'm also not sure about an epic like Winter being buried in the middle of side two, that doesn't make a lot of sense. Whatever its faults, it still works in that penultimate slot I was talking about, and thematically it fits PERFECTLY between WAS and Cedars.

 

[rihannsu]

I think tracks 5-7 are getting a bum rap as being shallow lightweight songs. These three tracks carry some very good advice for activists and social justice workers. I think of them as spiritual health for social justice work songs. Activists and social justice workers have horribly high burn out rates. The lyrics for these songs contain some very insightful tips on maintaining yourself through this type of work. Part of that advice is that you have to remember to have fun "go crazy tonight". "It's not a hill, it's a mountain" is all about recognizing that it is a very long hard fight and the progress will be slow and tedious with setbacks along the way. "We're gonna make it all the way to the light" is showing the confidence that the work will succeed. "Listen to me I'll be shouting" is Bono's commitment to keeping up the fight. But you can't be serious and carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders all the time or you end up looking like the guys on the cover of JT. You have to take time out for yourself to have fun and go crazy or you'll really go crazy trying to do this kind of work. Pretty serious for a supposedly fluffy pop song. Boots is all about remembering that your strength and sustenance comes from your family and community and you have to sometimes shut out the world a bit and submerge yourself in that to recharge your batteries. SUC is about not taking yourself to seriously in the midst of all your activism. Stand up for what you believe and get involved but don't forget to laugh at yourself along the way. Don't loose your sense of humor or your ability to be ridiculous. These are all lessons that U2 has learned along the way. They overdosed on earnesty in the 80's and spent the 90's learning how to loosen up and have fun and they spent a lot of time having fun with their families and now they have a good healthy balance of seriousness and silliness, fervor and frivolity. Bono in particular seems to have more energy and drive than ever.

The journey on this album is not just an emotional journey but a spiritual one. It is a chronicle of spiritual growth. The first 4 tracks deal with personal epiphanies of faith. They are all in some way or another about moments of surrender. 5-7 are about the work that you are led to do and the final tracks are about living your faith.

Dana

 

[lazarus]

I think tracks 5-7 are getting a bum rap as being shallow lightweight songs. These three tracks carry some very good advice for activists and social justice workers. I think of them as spiritual health for social justice work songs. Activists and social justice workers have horribly high burn out rates. The lyrics for these songs contain some very insightful tips on maintaining yourself through this type of work. Part of that advice is that you have to remember to have fun "go crazy tonight". "It's not a hill, it's a mountain" is all about recognizing that it is a very long hard fight and the progress will be slow and tedious with setbacks along the way. "We're gonna make it all the way to the light" is showing the confidence that the work will succeed. "Listen to me I'll be shouting" is Bono's commitment to keeping up the fight. But you can't be serious and carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders all the time or you end up looking like the guys on the cover of JT. You have to take time out for yourself to have fun and go crazy or you'll really go crazy trying to do this kind of work. Pretty serious for a supposedly fluffy pop song.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Yeah, wow.

 

[ozeeko]

I have no problem with Crazy Tonight, taking it for what it is...it's a pop song, maybe it has a deeper meaning, I'm sure of it, but it doesn't really force me to ponder the great questions in life. If anything, it merely puts a smile on my face. It puts me in a good mood, and that's the best thing i can say about it. Bono could be reading the phone book during the verses, and it probably wouldn't affect a thing, for i'm not really dwelling on the lyrics as i'm listening.

Now, i'll say that there were times when Bono could be reassuring in a dismal landscape, and the melody and message would carry thru. I think "Red Hill Mining Town" is an example of that. He just bluntly describes the scene, what's happening, and you get the feeling that these tired workers are going to be repaid in some way for their contribution. he doesn't spell it out, he doesn't say anything too reassuring, or offer any golden advice, but the music is the thing that shows you the light. That's the difference between the U2 of old and the U2 of late, that in the past it was the MUSIC that inspired you, at odds with what Bono was singing about.

Now, maybe Crazy Tonight is a rallying call to all disillusioned people or whatever, but I don't really take anything from the lyrics. I actually just pretend Bono's singing in a different language, for the lyrics, if i really really focus on them, distract me from the music. He's better when he's painting a picture, and letting the music tell the rest of the story.

 

[Salome]

The journey on this album is not just an emotional journey but a spiritual one. It is a chronicle of spiritual growth. The first 4 tracks deal with personal epiphanies of faith. They are all in some way or another about moments of surrender. 5-7 are about the work that you are led to do and the final tracks are about living your faith.

 

[ozeeko]

I think a spiritual album should be one that is free to explore its own destiny rather than be broken up into 3 pieces. I'm sorry, but i'm not really buying the argument. Nor am I saying this is supposed to be a spiritual album.

 

[lazarus]

Clearly you have to be an activist or social justice worker to truly appreciate this album.

I need to go rethink my life.

 

[Salome]

it is the band most spiritual album since October
it seems hard to deny this, if not impossible

so why is it such a stretch that the middle 3 tracks fit this spirituality theme?
it seems stranger to me that they were just bunged it there for the sake of it

then when you look at the lyrics they do seem to be about a hands-on approach to spirituality

so why ridicule the idea that it is about an active approach to spirituality when given the facts it seems to make more sense than anything else?

 

[rihannsu]

Clearly you have to be an activist or social justice worker to truly appreciate this album.

I need to go rethink my life.

Oh, Jesus, take a chill pill, that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that there ARE depths to even the so called superficial U2 songs and sometimes I think people dismiss them without even looking further. If you don't want to look any deeper than fine, but to just blanket dismiss the songs as fluff is bullshit. Bono couldn't do pure fluff if his life depended on it. It's just not in his nature. Just because some choose not to see the spiritual aspects doesn't mean it's not there.

Dana

 

[ultraviolet7]

it is the band most spiritual album since October
it seems hard to deny this, if not impossible

Depends on the reading you give it. Bono's lyrics can be interpreted in multiple ways. That's a rare ability he has which saves him from sounding like a preacher. Undoubtedly you can give some of the lyrics on NLOTH a spiritual reading. Personally I think Pop is heavy with spiritual themes (Mofo, LNOE, SATS, Gone, WUDM) - but that's me, probably to many others the meaning is different.

 

[Salome]

Pop is heavy with spiritual themes indeed
but not as heavy as NLOTH which is the band's most spiritual album since October
it seems hard to deny this, if not impossible

 

[bakedpony]

yep NLOTH is undeniably the most spiritual simce october

Magnificent? CLEARLY abot God... The Magnificent One
Moment of Surrender? No explanations needed
Unknown Caller? Guess who that caller is? Yep it's God
even Stand Up Comedy has references to God
White as Snow? only The Lamb indeed
Breathe? right again!
and from Cedars... the You're so high above me, higher than everyone line. I've always thought the speaker was looking for God in the war-torn cedars of Lebanon

 

[mikal]

you guys are all blind sheep.

- Moment of Surrender is clearly written about their time recording Surrender during the War sessions.

- Stand Up Comedy is about Jerry Seinfeld

- Get On Your Boots is a political song about Nike's questionable child labor practices

- White As Snow is about skiing

- Unknown Caller is about the Do Not Call list


you guys are reading into this album way too much.

 

[bakedpony]

damn I think you're right!

Breathe is about surgey and surviving it. The man at the door at the first verse is the surgeon and asks Bono if he wants the operation... to live a bit longer. doc says you're fine or dying indeed!

 

[LemonMelon]

Breathe is about the oxygen tank Bono is going to have to use on this tour while singing Breathe. Quality self-depreciation.

 

[lazarus]

Or they could just retitle it "Wheeze".