Quite possibly a stupid question ...

[Axver]

Hi folks,

I think this'll probably sound like a very stupid question, but I'm rather new to trading stuff and so forth. Also, if this has been asked before, I apologise. I don't have a lot of time to check this forum to see if anyone else has asked this.

Basically, I would like to know about the legalities of burning and posting. I have a copy of an early U2 performance (forgotten the date (81 or 82, anyhow), but it's from the Malibu Club, Lido Beach, NY), and someone I know in America would like a copy (I live in Australia). I don't have a CD burner, so I asked a friend who does have one if he could burn it for me so that I could post it, but he refuses to because he believes it's illegal. Because this particular recording has been copywritten by the company that put the concert on the CD (I don't see how they can copyright it when it's unauthorised by U2), he says that if I were to post it to America, odds are that it'll get checked and he'll get caught for piracy or something like that.

Is this true? Can I safely burn (or get someone to burn) this CD and send it to the person I know in America, or not?

Thanks for any help.

- Andre

 

[*Wolverine*]

LOL, I would say your friend is a worry wart.

There is nothing legal about the recording you have. It may have the stamp from Italy on the back of it as bootlegging was "technically" legal there for a time frame in the 80's and 90's. The bootlegger basically had to leave a fee held in a bank in Italy that U2 could claim for putting out the recording. Of course U2 and other artists wouldnt take the money as it would be legitimizing bootlegging. So, you dont have to worry about a bootleg manufacturer coming after you for copyright infringement. It is kind of a funny concept though LOL

If you are just mailing a copy of the show to another trader who is going to find out that cares and how would they find out. Secondly, U2 and/or their record company are not going to come after you for trading 1 single bootleg. In fact, U2 has no problem with people trading their shows and have indicated this on numerous occassions. They have a problem when people try to profit off of the bootlegging. So if you are doing a simple trade or even a B and P you have nothing to worry about.

Now if you are going to put it on a file sharing program, you may have a problem

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

i don't know how it works for bootlegs (there probably isn't a rule like this, but your friend doesn't have to know) but for a cd, you're legally entitled to make one copy of it for yourself.

 

[Axver]

Well, to elaborate more on what my friend said ...

The CD is copywritten by an Australian company named Joker Productions or something like that, and the date is 1993. For this reason, my friend refuses to copy it, because he says that, if I were to post it to America, it would get checked in the mail, and because every computer leaves its own individual code on the CD (or something like that), they'd be able to track him down and fine him $10,000 and take his computer off him.

He never said anything about U2 coming after him - well, he was going to, then I mentioned how U2 is OK with trading bootlegs - but he thinks either the Australian or American police will come after him. Is this true?

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

that's not true at all. as far as i know, computers don't put codes on cds. don't quote me on it because who knows, maybe it is true, but i certainly haven't heard anything about it. but it sounds so outlandish that it has to be false.

 

[EPandAmerica]

Good gosh! Even if it were true they would have to arrest everyone in the world.

 

[U2Lynne]

Computers put individual computer codes on our CDRs?!? Hee hee, haa, haa. I'm sorry, but that's the silliest thing I've ever heard.

I actually have a bootleg by Joker Productions, Live - Vol. 2. I've made copies of it several times and sent it to many different countries (I'm in the US, but when I was trading alot it was mostly with people *not* in the US) and I've never had any problems. Actually, I've never had a single problem with customs with any of my trades and I've got close to 500 shows now.

However, none of us are going to convince your friend to do this. And, I wouldn't push him if he is coming up with all these reasons. So, either find another friend who can copy it for you or send the original to the trader and tell them to copy it for themselves and send you back the original (I've had quite a few people do that to me, but you kinda need to trust the person you are doing that with).

 

[Axver]

I actually have a bootleg by Joker Productions, Live - Vol. 2.

May I ask, would it be at all possible for you to B&P this for me? What is the tracklist for volume 2? If you don't have volume 4 (the volume I have) and would like it, I will hopefully be getting a burner in November and could burn it for you then (or find another friend willing to do it).

I've made copies of it several times and sent it to many different countries (I'm in the US, but when I was trading alot it was mostly with people *not* in the US) and I've never had any problems. Actually, I've never had a single problem with customs with any of my trades and I've got close to 500 shows now.

Well that's good to know. Question for everyone: Has anyone at all had any troubles with customs? If so, what were the consequences?

However, none of us are going to convince your friend to do this. And, I wouldn't push him if he is coming up with all these reasons. So, either find another friend who can copy it for you or send the original to the trader and tell them to copy it for themselves and send you back the original (I've had quite a few people do that to me, but you kinda need to trust the person you are doing that with).

Yeah, I've basically given up on getting my friend to do it. I do trust the person I'm going to send a copy to, so I may send them the original ... I'm not quite sure. If I were to do that, I may get my friend to burn me a copy of it before I send it (he'd do it for me if I weren't posting it), just in case anything bad happens ...

 

[Blue Room]

I have been trading in some form for 16 years, tapes for 12 years and CDR's for 4 years. I have traded all over the planet and I have NEVER had any problem at all. I have traded with a few people in Australia also so I dont think you have anything to worry about there. I think your friend has made a mountain out of a mole hill with false info and/or concerns.

By the way the exact date of the show in question is 12-13-81, in case you needed the info on that.

Good luck, but dont worry about mailing CDR's. You have nothing to worry about.

 

[U2Lynne]

May I ask, would it be at all possible for you to B&P this for me? What is the tracklist for volume 2? If you don't have volume 4 (the volume I have) and would like it, I will hopefully be getting a burner in November and could burn it for you then (or find another friend willing to do it).

I'll send a copy to you if you send me your address ( LSands11@yahoo.com ).

As for the tracklisting, it's on FLOM under 'Live Vol. 2 (Joker)'. Bookmark that site if you are going to get into trading.

 

[Axver]

I have been trading in some form for 16 years, tapes for 12 years and CDR's for 4 years. I have traded all over the planet and I have NEVER had any problem at all. I have traded with a few people in Australia also so I dont think you have anything to worry about there. I think your friend has made a mountain out of a mole hill with false info and/or concerns.

By the way the exact date of the show in question is 12-13-81, in case you needed the info on that.

Good luck, but dont worry about mailing CDR's. You have nothing to worry about.

OK, thanks. It's nice to know that I don't have anything to worry about! My friend made me rather concerned. By the way, thanks for that date: I was curious as to what the exact date was ever since I read it somewhere and then forgot it!

I'll send a copy to you if you send me your address

I sent you an e-mail earlier (although I was in a bit of a rush then), and I hope you got it.

As for the tracklisting, it's on FLOM under 'Live Vol. 2 (Joker)'. Bookmark that site if you are going to get into trading.

OK, thanks. I am interested in getting into trading, although the one big problem is that I'm not sure how to really go about it, and also the fact that I only have Live Volume 4 to trade with. If you or anyone else is prepared to answer my questions, I would be very appreciative.

 

[Axver]

I'd just like to ask everyone another stupid question, but please remember I'm rather new to this and don't know a great deal about technology (or at least when it comes to burning). So please forgive me for that.

Basically, I'd like to know if it's possible to burn a CD from a burnt CD (i.e. I receive a burnt CD from someone and then burn another copy to keep somewhere else because I'm prone at losing CDs - is this possible?) and if, when trading, people will accept burnt CDs that are burnt off a burn, or if they will only accept it if it is burnt from the original CD.

Also, are there many bootlegs of shows in New Zealand out there, or are they pretty rare? (I ask because I'm from NZ and would love to hear a U2 show from there)

 

[Popmartijn]

Hello,

Yes, it is possible to burn a CD from a burnt CD. When you follow correct procedures and use the correct programs then the 2nd copy will be almost identical to the 'original'. In fact, most traders probably trade shows they also only have as a CD-R, so this is acceptable (at least to me).

A good program for extracting the CD to your harddisk is EAC, which can be found at:
http://www.exactaudiocopy.de
And a good burning program is Feurio!, found at:
http://www.feurio.com

Hope this helps.

C ya!

Marty

 

[U2Lynne]

Axver,

Most traders are trading either CD-Rs, not original silver bootlegs. The thing about trading is you always have to be honest. If you are trading copies from a silver disc, say so. If they are from CD-Rs (copies of copies, perhaps unknown generation), then say so. Just like how some people download the mp3s and then burn them as an audio disc, they need to say there audio CD-R is mp3 sourced (they are not the same as audio sourced discs!).

And, as Marty said, you need to have a good extraction program and a good burning program and they need to be properly set up. (And, he gave you some good links).

Your disc went out on Monday, Andre.

As for New Zealand shows, yes, some are out there, but I don't recall seeing alot (how often did they play there?). The only show I have from there is an OK recording, at best.

Lynne

 

[Axver]

Axver,

Most traders are trading either CD-Rs, not original silver bootlegs. The thing about trading is you always have to be honest. If you are trading copies from a silver disc, say so. If they are from CD-Rs (copies of copies, perhaps unknown generation), then say so. Just like how some people download the mp3s and then burn them as an audio disc, they need to say there audio CD-R is mp3 sourced (they are not the same as audio sourced discs!).

OK, thanks, I'll remember to make sure to mention everything when I actually have stuff to trade!

Your disc went out on Monday, Andre.

Cool, thank you. Do you know how long it will take to get here at all?

As for New Zealand shows, yes, some are out there, but I don't recall seeing alot (how often did they play there?). The only show I have from there is an OK recording, at best.

Lynne

Honestly, I don't know how many times they've played there, but I'm sure it's less than 10. Most certainly it'll be less than 20.

Originally posted by Popmartijn
Hello,

Yes, it is possible to burn a CD from a burnt CD. When you follow correct procedures and use the correct programs then the 2nd copy will be almost identical to the 'original'. In fact, most traders probably trade shows they also only have as a CD-R, so this is acceptable (at least to me).

A good program for extracting the CD to your harddisk is EAC, which can be found at:
http://www.exactaudiocopy.de
And a good burning program is Feurio!, found at:
http://www.feurio.com

Hope this helps.

C ya!

Marty

OK, thank you for that. I'll make sure to check those sites out. I can't wait to get my own burner ...

 

[Popmartijn]

Hello,

Oh, I almost forgot. If you're going to get EAC ( ), then this next site has an excellent tutorial to set it up correctly:
http://www.ping.be/satcp/tutorials.htm

C ya!

Marty

 

[Axver]

OK, thank you.



By the way, I know U2 has said that they don't mind bootlegs being traded, but does that make it OK or are there actually any legal difficulties/issues with trading?

 

[U2girl]

I wondered about that too. I know that downloading songs or copying the official release is illegal but what about bootlegs taken from their live shows?

I mean it's not like their label or the band would be in any way worse off right? (also both said they don't have a problem with the fans recording their shows as long as it is non profitable)
Technically if one was to get busted by the customs or something do you think their management would press some kind of charges or not?

 

[Axver]

Anyone have an answer?

 

[U2Lynne]

Well, I'm not an attorney, so I can answer as far as the legalities and so I didn't want to pretend to know what I was talking about.

However, if you get your package stopped at customs, I've heard some people just never receive the package (I've known several people who never receive their package, including myself but none of us *really* knows what happened to the package) and I've heard other people say the police will come and take your bootleg collection away (I've never known anyone to have that happen).

As far as the band coming after you, I highly doubt it. In fact, from what I've heard U2 say, they don't mind people taping their shows (however, don't try to convince the venue security of that) as long as you don't profit off of it (by selling the shows).

Again, I'll say I really have no idea on what would really happen to you if your package gets stopped by customs.

 

[Axver]

OK, that's good to know that there's no horror stories doing the rounds about people having their computers taken off them and being hauled off to jail and so forth.

By the way, in regards to taping live shows, do you (or anyone else) know how easy it is, both to get past the security and to record the show? Because when U2 tours next, I would love to record the shows I go to, but I have no idea how ...

Also, another question for everyone, if you were flying overseas, is it safe to take a bootleg on the plane to listen to during the flight or to have it in your suitcase so that you can listen to it while you're at your destination, or is that too risky to do?

I wish a lawyer could come along to enlighten everyone on the actual legalities ... I don't suppose anyone here is a lawyer?