Bono Interview in Rolling Stone

[Axver]

Men from those countries also apparently say "cunt" like they're saying "hello," so people aren't really going to embrace that as an exuse.

It's not just men throwing around "cunt" in every other sentence, let me assure you of that. In my own experience nobody, but nobody, can spew more creative vulgarities based around "cunt" than the Northern Irish women I've worked or studied with. At least we Aussies and Kiwis have something to aspire to with our coarse tongues.

 

[kiwilad]

Wow this has been an entertaining half hour catching up on this thread.
Bono's girly quote popped up on my Facebook feed today, a friend posted a link to a story about it. Within an hour dozens of people had climbed in and eviscerated Bono for everything from taxes to itunes to styling to sexism.

My opinion mirrors that of Nick and Irvine. Careless and needlessly gender-loaded language is rightly being picked on harshly these days. Bono should know better. But jesus christ it's not worthy of some of the outrage being thrown around.

Ps. Diemen please don't ban haywa. That guy is to Interference what the bumbling burglars were to Home Alone. Endlessly entertaining.

 

[lazarus]

Oddly enough, Pitchfork hasn't reposted the story yet. You'd think they'd be like piranhas smelling blood in the water on this one.

 

[BVS]

Oddly enough, Pitchfork hasn't reposted the story yet. You'd think they'd be like piranhas smelling blood in the water on this one.

They’re still trying to normalize kicking a female photographer in the face...

 

[Nick66]

Depends what you're looking for. If you mean young men expressing anger in toxic ways, then yes there are fewer avenues to do that than a few decades ago, and rightly so.

But for young men whose anger isn't that of a shithead? Hell no. Obviously hip hop is a huge outlet - and Bono's comment implying it's not really for young white dudes is very strange, given all the white dudes rapping or at hip hop shows.

Metal is, of course, thriving across the planet. And the genres birthed from punk are big, especially metalcore and its derivatives, but also hardcore and post-hardcore. Emo has experienced a big resurgence in recent years; maybe there's a stereotype that's for sad young guys but it's also a good scene to channel anger in a healthy way. And if you've got some real bleak social alienation you don't have to go far to find a noise scene, and the misogynistic or racist noise artists of old are increasingly being confined to a narrow corner.

Of course each genre has problems with meathead fuckwits. In my experience those are usually regional scenes rather than genre scenes (so that a death metal scene in one city might be pretty healthy, but in another will feel threatening if you're not one of the boys). But there's plenty of effort being made so that everybody feels able to express themselves and their emotions without pushing out others who just want to have fun with a bit of musical catharsis.

And, to be honest, a lot of the angry young dudes who two decades ago you'd have seen at nu-metal shows or wearing a Limp Bizkit shirt, they now seem to be thrashing around at EDM festivals in shitty singlets.

Metal is so weird...you don't hear it on mainstream radio, you don't hear it in the supermarket, they don't play it as bumper music, and it doesn't make mainstream charts. But scratch just under the surface and it's HUGE world wide...like phenomenal. I travel quite a bit to former Soviet countries for work and it's just massive there. Sometimes it seems like it's the only thing many young people are listening to. It might be the most popular brand of rock music in the world. It's certainly universal.

And maybe that's a good thing, since apparently metal fans are among the most happy and well-adjusted music fans out there. And this seems to go directly to what Bono was talking about...

The study builds on a study from the University of Queensland last month, in which researchers discovered that listening to “extreme music” – heavy metal and punk, primarily – helped participants decrease levels of hostility, irritability and stress. “[Extreme] music helped them explore the full gamut of emotion they felt, but also left them feeling more active and inspired,” the authors wrote.

So yeah, some young people are going to have dark, "toxic" impulses, which hopefully they'll grow out of, but until then, I'd rather them have a musical outlet for that, then channeling that energy elsewhere. And maybe, rather than displaying out of touch sexism, Bono is actually just out of touch with the kind of "rage" music that's popular these days (other than hip-hop).

 

[mama cass]

Metal is so weird...you don't hear it on mainstream radio, you don't hear it in the supermarket, they don't play it as bumper music, and it doesn't make mainstream charts. But scratch just under the surface and it's HUGE world wide...like phenomenal. I travel quite a bit to former Soviet countries for work and it's just massive there. Sometimes it seems like it's the only thing many young people are listening to. It might be the most popular brand of rock music in the world. It's certainly universal.

And maybe that's a good thing, since apparently metal fans are among the most happy and well-adjusted music fans out there. And this seems to go directly to what Bono was talking about...



So yeah, some young people are going to have dark, "toxic" impulses, which hopefully they'll grow out of, but until then, I'd rather them have a musical outlet for that, then channeling that energy elsewhere. And maybe, rather than displaying out of touch sexism, Bono is actually just out of touch with the kind of "rage" music that's popular these days (other than hip-hop).

the metalheads we've come across are the sweetest, loveliest, gentlest people ever... the music is a great outlet for young people, the moshpit seems to be a great place to vent and let off steam, and i think the music must be cathartic or something... on a personal level, it's been great for my kids - they listen to (and play) the loudest screamiest intense stuff, but they're both such level-headed, very grounded, gentle and caring kids, and pretty quiet and shy (apart from when they're performing), and brutally serious about their music - they push themselves really hard - brutal perfectionists... but they get so much out of it...

the metal scene is also changing, moving away from drink, drugs etc. and there is now the "straight edge" thing going on, where many of the musicians my kids are meeting are health fanatics, vegans, and don't drink, smoke or take drugs and really look after their bodies, which i think is awesome...

metal offers an amazing community for young people, but they have to go looking for it...

on a more general level, i think young people need to have a physically challenging outlet to let off steam and clear their heads and get them "out of themselves", whether that be music, sport, or performance arts like dance or circus, or even competitive equestrian sports... a lot of kids i've come across that are heavily engaged with these kinds of activities are often really well adjusted - kids need something to focus on, to carry them thru turbulent teenage years, rather than drifting aimlessly...

 

[mama cass]

back on topic though - i don't think Bono needs to apologise - i think that would be a bit ridiculous... it was Bono being Bono, a good heart but a bit clumsy in his choice of words... plus he has enough girls in his life to kick him into touch if they see fit, i'm sure

also noted that Adam Clayton said "girly" in the BBC thing last night when referring to the decor back stage - omg what is with these boys?!

 

[Axver]

Yep, that sense of community, healthy release of emotions, and sense of a shared experience is basically why I got into metal as a teenager. I was highly strung and angry at the world, and metal was a good outlet. Plenty of very personal stories since then that I won't bother filling the thread with, but various heavy bands have made it all feel OK.

I know some people like to play uplifting music, or watch/do something else happy, when they feel poorly, but I find that more depressing. A chirpy, upbeat song is just going to remind me how much I feel like shit. Some thunderous sludge metal or some sprawling, dense black metal, and it's the comfort of feeling like somebody else out there actually gets it. And that's why I think metal has this enduring, popular underground appeal across the planet - the intense relatability so many people feel with it. Metal has so many diverse subgenres that, despite what the aesthetic implies to some outsiders, it's welcoming to a wide range of expression and emotion.

I've been to lots of gigs - I haven't kept count, but I would estimate about 600-700 - and it's rare that I feel unsafe at a show, and rarer still that this happens at a metal gig. I am admittedly a straight white male, so I don't cop the shit that a lot of other people would. But the worst concert experiences I've ever had have been at indie rock bands. I can only recall two incidents where I felt genuinely unsafe in a moshpit. I've fallen down many times, always to multiple hands pulling me back up. Indeed, as much as a pit looks like a total frenzy, often I feel like I have more personal space than when I'm crushed like a sardine onto the rail at the front of some comparatively still indie gig.

 

[AntonCorbijn]

 

[mama cass]

Yep, that sense of community, healthy release of emotions, and sense of a shared experience is basically why I got into metal as a teenager. I was highly strung and angry at the world, and metal was a good outlet. Plenty of very personal stories since then that I won't bother filling the thread with, but various heavy bands have made it all feel OK.

I know some people like to play uplifting music, or watch/do something else happy, when they feel poorly, but I find that more depressing. A chirpy, upbeat song is just going to remind me how much I feel like shit. Some thunderous sludge metal or some sprawling, dense black metal, and it's the comfort of feeling like somebody else out there actually gets it. And that's why I think metal has this enduring, popular underground appeal across the planet - the intense relatability so many people feel with it. Metal has so many diverse subgenres that, despite what the aesthetic implies to some outsiders, it's welcoming to a wide range of expression and emotion.

I've been to lots of gigs - I haven't kept count, but I would estimate about 600-700 - and it's rare that I feel unsafe at a show, and rarer still that this happens at a metal gig. I am admittedly a straight white male, so I don't cop the shit that a lot of other people would. But the worst concert experiences I've ever had have been at indie rock bands. I can only recall two incidents where I felt genuinely unsafe in a moshpit. I've fallen down many times, always to multiple hands pulling me back up. Indeed, as much as a pit looks like a total frenzy, often I feel like I have more personal space than when I'm crushed like a sardine onto the rail at the front of some comparatively still indie gig.

my daughter says the same - she feels really safe at metal gigs, and always gets pulled out of harms way in the moshpit, but what she likes best is crowdsurfing hahaha

 

[U2girl]

I think the reference to "girly music" -- in context -- refers to a type of music, as stated. Not an indictment of female solo artists or bands in general.

He even goes on to talk about, wait for it, male rage in music in that same paragraph.

Do you believe it?
I think music has gotten very girly. And there are some good things about that, but hip-hop is the only place for young male anger at the moment – and that's not good. When I was 16, I had a lot of anger in me. You need to find a place for it and for guitars, whether it is with a drum machine – I don't care. The moment something becomes preserved, it is fucking over. You might as well put it in formaldehyde. In the end, what is rock & roll? Rage is at the heart of it. Some great rock & roll tends to have that, which is why the Who were such a great band. Or Pearl Jam. Eddie has that rage.

But...."girly". zomg. Sexist !!!

 

[Nick66]

the metalheads we've come across are the sweetest, loveliest, gentlest people ever... the music is a great outlet for young people, the moshpit seems to be a great place to vent and let off steam, and i think the music must be cathartic or something... on a personal level, it's been great for my kids - they listen to (and play) the loudest screamiest intense stuff, but they're both such level-headed, very grounded, gentle and caring kids, and pretty quiet and shy (apart from when they're performing), and brutally serious about their music - they push themselves really hard - brutal perfectionists... but they get so much out of it...

the metal scene is also changing, moving away from drink, drugs etc. and there is now the "straight edge" thing going on, where many of the musicians my kids are meeting are health fanatics, vegans, and don't drink, smoke or take drugs and really look after their bodies, which i think is awesome...

metal offers an amazing community for young people, but they have to go looking for it...

on a more general level, i think young people need to have a physically challenging outlet to let off steam and clear their heads and get them "out of themselves", whether that be music, sport, or performance arts like dance or circus, or even competitive equestrian sports... a lot of kids i've come across that are heavily engaged with these kinds of activities are often really well adjusted - kids need something to focus on, to carry them thru turbulent teenage years, rather than drifting aimlessly...

Sounds like you have great kids...and committed! That's awesome. And they'll probably make good, monogamous life partners also!

Yep, that sense of community, healthy release of emotions, and sense of a shared experience is basically why I got into metal as a teenager. I was highly strung and angry at the world, and metal was a good outlet. Plenty of very personal stories since then that I won't bother filling the thread with, but various heavy bands have made it all feel OK.

Yeah, and again I think Bono's underlying assumption, that many young males need a "rage" music outlet is a correct one , he just had an unfortunate choice of words. What Bono gets wrong is he seems to think that because that kind of music isn't on the charts, it's not there.

Listening to 'extreme' music makes you calmer, not angrier, according to study

 

[nielsgov]

I'm pretty sure Bono knows its there but he's always focused on the mainstream. That's why he, and he basically confirmed that he's the one pushing this within the band, wants U2 to remain popular with the kids.

 

[Nick66]

I'm pretty sure Bono knows its there but he's always focused on the mainstream. That's why he, and he basically confirmed that he's the one pushing this within the band, wants U2 to remain popular with the kids.

Of course...but the irony is the very kind of music that Bono says he chose as his "rage" outlet when he was younger wasn't exactly mainstream or chart topping either. In fact on many occasions Bono said his band couldn't stand what was going with music when they were coming up.

Anyway, the more I think about the social media melt down over this (and among some on here), the more I think the worst over reactions are hypocritical, opportunistic bullshit. People who already don't like Bono are using this as an excuse to take a cheap shot at him. Bono, no matter what you think of him or how annoying you think he may be, has been a force for good in this world, including for women. U2’s lyrics have not a hint of misogyny as far as I know. Nor do they promote violence, and for the most part are pretty damn uplifting. As he's pointed out many times, U2 is run by women. Bono was raised by all accounts two brilliant, independent daughters. He married a successful, strong woman in her own right. Bono as far as I can see walks the walk on this issue.

And what I find to be incredibly hypocritical, frankly, is that some of the people in this thread who are loudest in their self-righteous condemnation of Bono, I’ve seen praise artists whose music has some of the most misogynistic, violent lyrics out there....and many of those same artists don't exactly lead stellar personal lives in this regard either. So yeah, when you start calling those guys out, regularly, maybe then I'll respect what you have to say about Bono.

More to the point, Bono has been using this "girly" thing in one context or another for years...but NOW, that the social media spot light is on him, you choose to piously join the pile on? That's what's pathetic.

I don't mind the "tut tut, now Bono you shouldn't have said that" soft criticism, that's fine. Girly is perhaps inaccurate, and is not a word I would have chosen, but nonetheless I won't be joining the mob on this one, and he gets a pass with me (though he'll most certainly be forced to apologise).

 

[nielsgov]

Of course...but the irony is the very kind of music that Bono says he chose as his "rage" outlet when he was younger wasn't exactly mainstream or chart topping either. In fact on many occasions Bono said his band couldn't stand what was going with music when they were coming up.

There's a lot of irony going on with his statement indeed. As others have pointed out, I'd say U2's recent music is also pretty 'girly'.

 

[Hewson]

U2’s lyrics have not a hint of misogyny as far as I know..

.

Boy-girl, boy-girl
When a boy meets a girl
Boy-girl

Finding out
I'm finding out the things
That I've been talking about
I'm finding all the things
That I've been missing out
Finding all the things
I lose my mind
Sometimes fall behind

You and I we live on the big ship
And time goes by
You make up and I believe a lady's lie
The skinheads call it strawberries and cream
Sometimes I scream

Boy-girl, boy-girl
When a boy meets a girl
Boy-girl

We go out
A picture or a disco or a roundabout
I walk you home, I hold you there
You're giving out
I open doors so I can shut your face
Know your place

Boy-girl, boy-girl
When a boy meets a girl
Boy-girl

You can take me in your hand
Stand back, leave me, come in
Up and down and all around
You will sideways to the ground

Boy-girl, boy-girl
When a boy meets a girl

 

[Nick66]

 

[david]

The band Tennis is ripping Bono a new one on their IG.

 

[lazarus]

I’m sure they won’t be the only ones. Artists and fans who normally would have just rolled their eyes anything Bono said are now going to view him as an asshole. Guy Oseary better have someone on damage control.

 

[Nick66]

I really hope Bono is going to be OK after this.

 

[Hewson]

I wonder if Larry is on board with the comments.

 

[david]

I wonder if Haim and Lykke Li are mad at him.

 

[Nick66]

I hope Aung San Suu Kyi isn't mad at him.

You do not want to make that woman angry.

 

[intedomine]

Hopefully Bono cops the criticism, acknowledges it and uses the outrage to (little more) better himself. He'll probably be regretting the comment I reckon.


It's a cracking interview, sadly overshadowed by a silly, reckless remark, that sits uncomfortably alongside some of his brilliant advocacy for women's rights and empowerment over the years.

 

[anitram]

I kind of roll my eyes half the time Bono makes the news so frankly this is par for the course.

The most problematic thing to me seems to be this notion that we must provide an outlet for "young male rage" - I mean, really? Looking back at history, it really doesn't seem like they've had a lack of a way of expressing it, at the expense of others.

It's unfortunate that he answered that question the way he did, nobody cares about the rest of the (cogent) article now.

 

[Nick66]

The most problematic thing to me seems to be this notion that we must provide an outlet for "young male rage" - I mean, really? Looking back at history, it really doesn't seem like they've had a lack of a way of expressing it, at the expense of others.

I think you missed his point...indeed, the point, entirely.

 

[anitram]

I think you missed his point entirely.

Please stop assuming what I did and didn't get from his comment. It's irritating and you do it constantly.

Just because I pointed out what I found the most problematic doesn't indicate what I took to be the general message he presented.

 

[Nick66]

Please stop assuming what I did and didn't get from his comment. It's irritating and you do it constantly.

Just because I pointed out what I found the most problematic doesn't indicate what I took to be the general message he presented.

I didn't have to assume anything...I just read what you wrote.

If what you meant to say by saying it's problematic that "we must provide an outlet for "young male rage" was actually that yes, it's important that young males have an outlet to channel that rage into music, so that it doesn't get channeled into other (perhaps violent) places, why then yes, we agree that it's important that young males have this outlet.

 

[mikal]

Hopefully Bono cops the criticism, acknowledges it and uses the outrage to (little more) better himself. He'll probably be regretting the comment I reckon.


It's a cracking interview, sadly overshadowed by a silly, reckless remark, that sits uncomfortably alongside some of his brilliant advocacy for women's rights and empowerment over the years.

If by bettering himself I just hope you mean that he should use a different word. It’s not like he needs therapy or anything. Considering the scandals that have come out this year, and ones which people need a lot of help, this really should blow over.

Also, Tennis is ripping him? Can he rip them back for ripping U2 off half the time? Lolz

 

[Nick66]

Well this isn't going to help.

This Man Says He Was Sexually Assaulted By Jann Wenner. Then He Got An Amazing Job Offer At Rolling Stone.

For those who don't know, Wenner is the publisher of Rolling Stone, and very friendly with U2...he's the guy who's largely responsible for RS's glowing coverage of U2 over the years and conducted the now infamous "girly' interview with Bono.