What is your opinion on abortion?

[shart1780]

I'll be short and to the point: The government should stay the hell out of the womb. It is a woman's choice. Perhaps her partner's as well. But for a woman, this is one of the hardest, most painful, most private decisions they will ever make. And the government has absolutely, positively, no right at all to be taking ANY kind of part in a decision that is THAT private. Pro-choice. Period.

So you're saying that even if it's murder they should be able to have an abortion?

 

[starsgoblue]

Unfortunately, that womb is hosting another living being.

It's strange how even in partial-birth abortions, the head of the baby cannot be visibile because then that would equal homocide...interesting.

Ok, well if the govt. should stay out of the the womb, than someone has no legal grounds to be tried for double homocide if one murders a pregnant woman. The pregnancy doesn't really count as a human yet in that case either than by that logic.

 

[namkcuR]

Unfortunately, that womb is hosting another living being.

It's strange how even in partial-birth abortions, the head of the baby cannot be visibile because then that would equal homocide...interesting.

Ok, well if the govt. should stay out of the the womb, than someone has no legal grounds to be tried for double homocide if one murders a pregnant woman. The pregnancy doesn't really count as a human yet in that case either than by that logic.

Are you actually using that as an arugement? That's ridiculous logic you're using. Abortion is a CHOICE. It's a woman CHOOSING to have her pregnancy terminated. If some sick fuck goes and kills a pregnant woman, then of course they should be put in prison because that is PRE-MEDITATED MURDER, and it was NOT a CHOICE that the woman made. There is literally a difference the size of the Grand Canyon here and you apparently don't see it.

 

[sharky]

For those of you who have asked for clarification on the Jewish stance on abortion, I give you this passage from a book called the Jewish book of why:

Why is the unborn fetus not considered a "person" under Jewish law?

The Sages arrived at their point of view from the statement in the Book of Exodus [21:22] that if a pregnant woman is struck by someone, and her unborn child is destroyed, the person who caused the mishap must pay damages. He is not, however, considered a murderer because the unborn child is not a person. The Talmud is quite specific in describing the status of an unborn child: "If a woman is having difficulty giving birth and her life is in danger, the fetus may be removed surgically, limb by limb, because her life takes precedence over the unborn fetus. However, if the delivery of the child has already begun, and its head or the greater part of its body has already emerged, the child may not be harmed to save the mother, because one person's life may not be take to save another."

As one rabbi has said "So long as the fetus does not enter the 'atmosphere of the world' it is not considered a person." However, despite the fact that in Jewish law the unborn child is not considered a person, the law does not approve of abortion unless there is sufficient justification.

 

[starsgoblue]

Are you actually using that as an arugement? That's ridiculous logic you're using. Abortion is a CHOICE. It's a woman CHOOSING to have her pregnancy terminated. If some sick fuck goes and kills a pregnant woman, then of course they should be put in prison because that is PRE-MEDITATED MURDER, and it was NOT a CHOICE that the woman made. There is literally a difference the size of the Grand Canyon here and you apparently don't see it.

For murder of the woman...yes. But for the baby? Why's that. Why is the baby protected against termination from everyone except the mother?

 

[starsgoblue]

For those of you who have asked for clarification on the Jewish stance on abortion, I give you this passage from a book called the Jewish book of why:

Why is the unborn fetus not considered a "person" under Jewish law?

Interesting conclusion from OT sources....God doesn't like murder....I think the Psalms among other Hebrew literature make a strong case to the contrary...

Jewish law might not nessacarily jive with God's will anyways...one is manmade and the other isn't...

 

[discothequeLP]

i was always tied up on the issue of abortion, but john kerry's view about not imposing personal beliefs on America (was really very new and very sensible view on the topic

 

[sue4u2]

It's not all about giving birth to an unborn - alive child. What happens if you have a child that die's at 4 to 5 months of pregnancy and then have to wait till you go into labor to deliver a dead baby?
If abortion is abolished this mother to would have to wait untill she "naturally"expelled the dead child. This actually happened to someone I know. She had an option that alot of people feel is not her right to decide. There is no middle ground within alot of churches and she had to go with her own desire to eventually have other children, and to terminate this pregnancy.
It was not easy for her or her family, but all understood. This happens more than you know.
So you may say "well this is different" but it isn't if you say women don't have a right to choose - at all.

 

[starsgoblue]

*whoops

 

[starsgoblue]

It's not all about giving birth to an unborn - alive child. What happens if you have a child that die's at 4 to 5 months of pregnancy and then have to wait till you go into labor to deliver a dead baby?
If abortion is abolished this mother to would have to wait untill she "naturally"expelled the dead child. This actually happened to someone I know. She had an option that alot of people feel is not her right to decide. There is no middle ground within alot of churches and she had to go with her own desire to eventually have other children, and to terminate this pregnancy.
It was not easy for her or her family, but all understood. This happens more than you know.
So you may say "well this is different" but it isn't if you say women don't have a right to choose - at all.

That is so far in a different direction...it really is. Are you going to be saying that emergency c-sections won't be allowed either? If the child isn't alive...waiting for a natural expulsion is potentially dangerous to the mother...no doubt traumatic no matter what desicsion is made.

 

[bonosloveslave]

It's not all about giving birth to an unborn - alive child. What happens if you have a child that die's at 4 to 5 months of pregnancy and then have to wait till you go into labor to deliver a dead baby?

If it has died naturally then extraction of a dead fetus is not abortion.

 

[shart1780]

I find it interesting how most people who say "it's the choice of the woman. Period." never comment on wheather they actually think abortion is killing, which I think is by far the most important question.

 

[starsgoblue]

Abortion is killing...there is no way around that fact.

 

[pax]

Yes, but so is eating meat and washing your hands.

 

[namkcuR]

Yes, but so is eating meat and washing your hands.

 

[indra]

I find it interesting how most people who say "it's the choice of the woman. Period." never comment on wheather they actually think abortion is killing, which I think is by far the most important question.

Until there is a way that a fetuses can be produced and brought to term without the aid of a female body, I believe that person (the female host) has the right to do whatever she wishes with whatever she is carrying.

It that clear enough?

 

[Lisa71]

I'm prochoice but I, personally, wouldn't have an abortion because I believe it's wrong for me. I think it's up to each man and woman to follow their own morals and values on this issue. With that being said, I have to say that I think it should be legal in the case of rape, incest and in cases where there is a danger to the mother's life. See, the problem is that if you say it's ONLY okay to have an abortion in this case that presents some problems. If a woman is raped by her father and she gets pregnant then I believe she should have the option of abortion. However, many people say well, she would have to get a note from the doctor or go to court or whatever to have it approved. I have to ask if someone was raped by their father or brother how many of the women that this happens to are going to admit it a doctor let alone to a court? YES, they should but I can tell you from knowing people that have had similar kinds of issues, they don't tell a MAJORITY of the time. So, by outlawing abortions the people that have been raped or in the cases of incest etc wouldn't have that choice so available.
As for the stats about who gets abortions, I also think they are skewed a bit because again, for the people that have been raped or sexually abused they most likely aren't going to say that's the reason they are having one. By saying that I don't mean it's a large number of cases that this has happened but I do think it's more than .0001%!! I've just personally seen some things that make it so hard for me to say it shouldn't be legal. I just know it's not as easy as going to a doctor or going to court to get approval. Things like that take time and if an abortion has to be done in those cases it has to be done sooner rather than later (not to have a late trimester abortion). I mean what if a woman claims she is raped. Do they have to have a trial to see if the guy is convicted BEFORE she has an abortion? The same can be said with incest. Does the woman have to turn her father or relative in and then how do they know she's telling the truth? It's just takes too long by that point.

 

[Pearl]

I guess I am pro-choice in the sense that I feel that I can't tell another woman what to do. Its her decision and its up to her to realize the consequences. But I could never attend pro-choice rallies or anything such, and really do feel that life begins at conception. The way I see it, when you look at the mother's point of view - its her body, etc. - it makes sense. But you realize that it is a human being that she is killing, than the issue takes a whole different turn.

I used to be for abortion during the first trimester, because I thought during then, its nothing but a bunch of cells. But a few months ago, I saw on TV 3-D ultrasound scans showing a fetus kicking and moving in the womb at 10 weeks - a time where most abortions are preformed. That made me rethink the whole issue.

I support abortion in the cases of a mother's life in danger, incest and rape. I am ardently against late-term abortion since a baby could easily survive outside the womb, and what took the woman so long to make a decision? Six months, and you suddenly decide not to have the baby? At that point, putting the baby up for adoption would be the better option. And I agree that adoption needs to be more emphasized when there's a pregnant woman unsure of what to do, because you may not want the child but someone else may.

That being said, I find it hard to support abortion in cases of not ready to have kids, birth control reasons, and so on. I'm sure women who have had abortions (and I've known a few) did some deep, serious thinking about it, and probably felt somewhere in their conscience that abortion was the right decision. Its just that I find it difficult to accept that they ended a life and didn't give the child a chance. Its like they think they disposed the fetus

Also, in the case of where a man murders a pregnant woman, I say he did kill two lives, and he should be charged with it. The same goes for when a man beats a woman and she miscarries. The woman wanted that baby to be born and he took something that she wanted. I know this issue stirs up when does life begin and who should decide when a fetus is a human being, but I really feel when someone ends the pregnancy of a woman who wanted her baby to live, he should be charged with murder.

 

[shart1780]

Until there is a way that a fetuses can be produced and brought to term without the aid of a female body, I believe that person (the female host) has the right to do whatever she wishes with whatever she is carrying.

It that clear enough?

Yes but the question is WHY!!!!

Why do you think that? I stated plenty of reasons why I believe abortion is wrong, I want to know why you think it's right. Why do you think the mother should have the option to kill her baby? Do you think it's murder? If not, why?

 

[starsgoblue]

For those of you who have asked for clarification on the Jewish stance on abortion, I give you this passage from a book called the Jewish book of why:

Why is the unborn fetus not considered a "person" under Jewish law?

The Exodus excerpt you gave me speaks of only the event that the pregnant woman is unharmed....it doesn't speak of what to do in the case of death....

 

[discothequeLP]

parents have certain rights to thier children when they are under 18 years of age. mothers have certain rights to unborn babies, who are still part of the mother's body. I don't think that you can take a clean cut on this issue as black or white (as Bush has done for many other complicated issues). Ultimately it should be up to the mother to decide.



And, by the way, if these policitians don't want abortions to be performed, why aren't they in full support of birth control? it's great that it's OTC now, but all the "dodgy politicians" should be all over this stuff! what, do they not want abortions, or do they not want people to have sex?


and to all those die-hard religous nuts who say that birth-control is bad, give me a break. you don't want birth control and you don't want abortions. you can't have your cake and eat it too. sounds to me like you dont think people should be having sex...


ok this is more than enough



edit: is it that obvious what's on the mind of a 16 year old guy...

 

[iacrobat]

I don't like it. Although there are circumstances where I think it is accpetable, like it has been said, if the mother's life is in danger, incest rape. Therefore the choice should be availiable. I am totally against late term/partial birth abortions.

I think there is another set of issues that hardly ever get discussed which is that people want to have sex without consequences or responsibility (me included!). I believe most, not all, abortions occur for this reason and not any of the ones above.

 

[indra]

Yes but the question is WHY!!!!

Why do you think that? I stated plenty of reasons why I believe abortion is wrong, I want to know why you think it's right. Why do you think the mother should have the option to kill her baby? Do you think it's murder? If not, why?

First, your reasons were more rants and emotions than the logic you seem to think.

The mother should have the right to do with her body whatever she wishes. Period. A woman is not merely a breeding machine, and must be able make her own decisions. As for the fetus, it is pretty much a parasitic relationship until birth.


And you, little shart, have yet to answer my companion to the abortion thread. Hop to it, babe.

 

[indra]

And, by the way, if these policitians don't want abortions to be performed, why aren't they in full support of birth control? it's great that it's OTC now

and to all those die-hard religous nuts who say that birth-control is bad, give me a break. you don't want birth control and you don't want abortions. you can't have your cake and eat it too. sounds to me like you dont think people should be having sex...

Agree on the nutjobs.

As for OTC birth control...condoms, yes, but very little else. I realize it doesn't matter so much for guys, but for women reliable birth control is much harder to come by.

 

[MissMoo]

My personal feeling is that it's my egg, my body produced it and I get to choose what happens to it. I'll take the man's sperm into consideration (he gets a say) but it changes my life more profoundly than it does his. I also don't think it is a human being right away. I don't remember anything from my time in the womb and I'm sure that there is no consciousness for the first few months. To me, consciousness, is what creates a human being. If science comes up with proof otherwise then I would rethink my position. The other thing is, there is death all around us, we will all die one day, we kill people, we kill animals, we support wars. If it's wrong for you, don't do it.

 

[starsgoblue]

My personal feeling is that it's my egg, my body produced it and I get to choose what happens to it. I'll take the man's sperm into consideration (he gets a say) but it changes my life more profoundly than it does his. I also don't think it is a human being right away. I don't remember anything from my time in the womb and I'm sure that there is no consciousness for the first few months. To me, consciousness, is what creates a human being. If science comes up with proof otherwise then I would rethink my position. The other thing is, there is death all around us, we will all die one day, we kill people, we kill animals, we support wars. If it's wrong for you, don't do it.

Do brainwaves constitute consciousness?

If you don't think so, then please tell me about your experience as a newborn up to about 2 years of age...do you have a vivid memory of being conscious then?

 

[MissMoo]

Are there brainwaves in a month old fetus? And yes I have a couple of memories of sounds.

 

[starsgoblue]

By 6 weeks after conception, brain waves can reliably detected. THe heart has been beating and circulating its own unique blood type for two weeks prior...

 

[indra]

By 6 weeks after conception, brain waves can reliably detected

And can the embryo live without it's host?

 

[starsgoblue]

Can a newborn human survive on it's own either?