US Politics XXXVIII: "Patriots" vs Reality

[LuckyNumber7]

Always on the side of the defense

 

[BEAL]

https://x.com/natashakorecki/status/1710799614176043055?s=46&t=7qdYZNgiKjw76N1iFrMMAw

Yeah, the test is how does any administration try to recover from the previous POTUS sharing Israeli secrets and intelligence

https://x.com/emptywheel/status/1711006233551851544?s=46&t=7qdYZNgiKjw76N1iFrMMAw

https://x.com/emptywheel/status/1711006687262376362?s=46&t=7qdYZNgiKjw76N1iFrMMAw

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Don't even know what in the cryptic is going in here

But Hamas has been declared to be a terrorist group, yes there are plenty of people who call Israel terrorists too and view the country that way. Hamas reportedly kidnapped babies in this attack and killed and injured who knows how many people.

I don't see this situation ever ending, even Jared Kushner couldn't solve it. But this attack is indefensible and it's reprehensible to call it self defense.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Oh look you’re doing that thing again where you grossly mis characterize words and fail to address. What a surprise.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Oh look you’re doing that thing again where you grossly mis characterize words and fail to address. What a surprise.

What is your problem? My post had zero to do with you and was not directed at you in any way shape or form.

Don't carry out a grudge here by continuing this bullshit, it's immature and unnecessary. A real turn off to participating here too, and it sure does give the impression that you're looking for a fight all the time.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

You’re right that’s it, just looking to fight. Hence the very nature of the point I made.

 

[Bluer White]

Always on the side of the defense

?

 

[LuckyNumber7]

?

thank you for seeking clarification. I am entirely against aggression and as a result in full support of any nation or entity defending themselves from said aggression.

 

[Bluer White]

I am entirely against aggression and as a result in full support of any nation or entity defending themselves from said aggression.

Got ya.

We're about to see many more Palestinian civilian deaths and wounded in the coming weeks. The crude term might be 'collateral damage,' but it's bound to happen given the areas where the Israeli military will be operating. We'll see how the worldwide rhetoric on all this evolves.

Ongoing large-scale war in Eastern Europe and now war declared in the Middle East

Good times for rocket and missile manufacturers.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I sincerely hope they listen to their Egyptian mediators and refrain from escalation once they recover their losses, but we know that will not happen.

 

[Bluer White]

The death tolls being reported out of the entire region, as much as the numbers can be trusted, horrific. Many civilians.

After about a day and a half.

 

[DaveC]

if you insist on crushing people under your thumb, sooner or later they'll crawl up your other fingers.

 

[BEAL]

So will this be the end of Bibi ? This is a colossal fuck up on his administration. Seems like the guy never goes away but this has to hurt him as how could anyone trust him and his politicians again ?

I don’t have confidence Israel’s response will be measured. Already they have ordered complete lock down of Gaza. No food. Water. Power.

Not sure that hurts Hamas

 

[mikal]

https://x.com/atrupar/status/1711435615949009003?s=46

 

[Irvine511]

So will this be the end of Bibi ? This is a colossal fuck up on his administration. Seems like the guy never goes away but this has to hurt him as how could anyone trust him and his politicians again ?

I don’t have confidence Israel’s response will be measured. Already they have ordered complete lock down of Gaza. No food. Water. Power.

Not sure that hurts Hamas

9/11 was a massive security fuck up on the part of the Bush administration, and his popularity soared afterwards. I expect the same to happen.

I think we can acknowledge legitimate “context” while also understanding that killing hundreds of kids at a music festival isn’t a “response” to occupation but rank terror and will predictably result in many times more dead Palestinians, which is what Iran and Putin want.

This is all very, very bad.

 

[Bluer White]

I think we can acknowledge legitimate “context” while also understanding that killing hundreds of kids at a music festival isn’t a “response” to occupation but rank terror and will predictably result in many times more dead Palestinians, which is what Iran and Putin want.

This is all very, very bad.

Very well said.

 

[BEAL]

9/11 was a massive security fuck up on the part of the Bush administration, and his popularity soared afterwards. I expect the same to happen.

I think we can acknowledge legitimate “context” while also understanding that killing hundreds of kids at a music festival isn’t a “response” to occupation but rank terror and will predictably result in many times more dead Palestinians, which is what Iran and Putin want.

This is all very, very bad.

I don’t know. I think in context of 9/11, America hadn’t suffered an attack like that since Pearl Harbor. And that was an attack on military. The shear barbarism of flying passenger planes into business buildings shocked the world.

It would have been extremely difficult to start blaming Bush. None of us knew what the fuck was going on or what to come.

Knowing these terror tactics, and as more info comes out that Bibi may have ignored warnings…maybe it’s enough to oust him and get someone serious to finally bring some peace to the region.

And nothing, nothing justifies the attacks, raping, and murder of innocent civilians. Go after the military. Go after those in power.

But what Hamas did and stands for, it’s not retribution or hope for peace. If they had the opportunity, they would kill every Jew they see.

Israel and Palestine need serious leadership to try and find a way out of this. Palestine deserves proper leaders and recognition/statehood.

Unfortunately it seems like it’ll always be this vicious cycle of death

 

[Irvine511]

I’ve been in Vegas all weekend — it was great, go if you can — and have been intentionally ignoring this until just the last couple of hours. I’m sure I have a lot more to learn about the past few days so I’ll just stop posting for a bit until I can catch up.

 

[BEAL]

I’m off to silent retreat in a week so it’ll be nice to have no external distractions. Tho i always wonder a little bit what news I’ll be coming back to.

 

[Bluer White]

Tough segment from CNN in this link, in what happened over the weekend.

White House Spox John Kirby Breaks Down While Discussing ‘Depravity’ Of Hamas Attacks
https://www.mediaite.com/news/white...-while-discussing-depravity-of-hamas-attacks/

 

[mikal]

https://x.com/andrewjbates46/status/1711751085398860065?s=46

 

[Bluer White]

Per the president this afternoon, 14 U.S. citizens have been confirmed killed.
Unknown number of U.S. hostages still being held.

 

[DaveC]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...hy-did-the-street-movements-of-the-2010s-fail

 

[Bluer White]

if you insist on crushing people under your thumb, sooner or later they'll crawl up your other fingers.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...hy-did-the-street-movements-of-the-2010s-fail

Hit a paywall. Maybe I've read too many free articles on the site.

Dave, imho what happened in the last four days in this region are one of those rare paradigm shifters.

I've stolen this from multiple news broadcasts, but am I off base to repeat that this particular attack on civilians is on a greater scale than 9/11?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I think we can acknowledge legitimate “context” while also understanding that killing hundreds of kids at a music festival isn’t a “response” to occupation but rank terror and will predictably result in many times more dead Palestinians, which is what Iran and Putin want.

This is all very, very bad.

this.

 

[DaveC]

Hit a paywall. Maybe I've read too many free articles on the site.

Dave, imho what happened in the last four days in this region are one of those rare paradigm shifters.

I've stolen this from multiple news broadcasts, but am I off base to repeat that this particular attack on civilians is on a greater scale than 9/11?

those two posts have nothing whatsoever to do with each other.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

https://twitter.com/RepShriThanedar/status/1712181950176186851?t=_bvK4NBIzrm8ueATy8NvbA&s=19

 

[Bluer White]

American death toll rises to 27, US Embassy to help Americans evacuate Israel
https://6abc.com/americans-killed-war-in-israel-us-citizens-hamas/13900575/

TEL AVIV -- The death toll of American citizens in Israel now stands at 27, John Kirby, spokesperson for the National Security Council, said at a White House briefing on Thursday.

Fourteen Americans remain unaccounted for.

The U.S. Embassy said it'll offer transportation for Americans looking to leaving Israel beginning on Friday.

...The State Department estimates that roughly 500,000 American citizens live in Israel.

This comes as U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken vowed American support to Israel on Thursday as its military pulverized the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip with airstrikes and prepared for a possible ground invasion. As Palestinians tried to stock up on bread and groceries amid dwindling supplies, Israel said nothing would be allowed into Gaza until around 150 hostages taken captive by Hamas during a weekend attack are freed.

..."Not a single electricity switch will be flipped on, not a single faucet will be turned on, and not a single fuel truck will enter until the Israeli hostages are returned home," Israeli Energy Minister Israel Katz said on social media.

...Palestinians fleeing airstrikes in Gaza could be seen running through the streets, carrying their belongings and looking for a safe place. The number of people who fled their homes reached 340,000 people by Wednesday night - roughly 15% of Gaza's population. Most crowded into U.N.-run schools while others are staying with relatives or even strangers who let them in.

Lines formed outside bakeries and grocery stores during the few hours they dared open, as people tried to stock up before shelves emptied. On Wednesday, Gaza's only power station ran out of fuel and shut down, leaving only lights powered by scattered private generators.

Hospitals, overwhelmed by a constant stream of wounded and running out of supplies, have only a few days worth of fuel before their power cuts off, aid officials say. The cut-off has also caused dire water shortage for over 650,000 people, according to the U.N.

"Without electricity, hospitals risk turning into morgues," warned Fabrizio Carboni, regional director of the International Committee of the Red Cross. When power runs out, it puts "newborns in incubators and elderly patients on oxygen at risk. Kidney dialysis stops, and X-rays can't be taken," he said.

 

[Bluer White]

I do wonder if the Hamas terrorist group ruling in Gaza, its financiers and weapon suppliers, are surprised at the overwhelming success they found last Saturday.

And the Israeli response they've purposely provoked again.....
well, this response will be much different than the past number of fights.

Much of it, again, at the expense of Palestinian civilians. Innocent folks. The folks Hamas and its enablers govern over.

Just used as pawns. Again.

 

[Irvine511]

I do wonder if the Hamas terrorist group ruling in Gaza, its financiers and weapon suppliers, are surprised at the overwhelming success they found last Saturday.



And the Israeli response they've purposely provoked again.....

well, this response will be much different than the past number of fights.



Much of it, again, at the expense of Palestinian civilians. Innocent folks. The folks Hamas and its enablers govern over.



Just used as pawns. Again.

I don’t know how this cycle is broken. And the worst part is that many states outside Israel/Palestine — Iran, Egypt, Russia — are heavily invested in the continuation of this conflict and in the usefulness of dead Palestinian children. Just tragedy everywhere.

It’s also been interesting to me to watch the reflexive “Israel bad” part of the political spectrum have to check itself these past few days, and also force itself to maybe have to hold two truths in their mind at the same time, something difficult for anyone anywhere who wishes to view the world as black/white, good/evil, oppressed/oppressor. This also applies to anyone who would call Palestinians “animals.”

At the end of the day, what I can boil it down to is this: Israel exists, and will continue to exist. That has to be accepted and dealt with.

We can go back to who’s land it is and when, and who kicked who out and when, but the fact is they aren’t going anywhere and this “from the river to the sea” mentality is incompatible with saving Palestinian lives and ending the Gaza blockade (Gaza is not actually occupied).

If you want to Free Palestine … it must first be freed from Hamas.