If you want to be willfully obtuse about it, sure, stick to a dictionary definition. If you can't acknowledge that institutional racism is worse than simply individuals holding racist beliefs, then I don't know what to tell you.
Would you believe ANY American white man if they say they have been oppressed? I'm guessing no. So whether I admit to being oppressed or not is of zero consequence, so why even ask?
Either way - I am expected to accept this thing called white privilege that I cannot possible see or experience or measure. I can only accept what others say about it.
If it cannot be objectively measured and discussed, then people can attach anything they want to it. Do you not see the danger in that? And how do we end this invisible force? What is the measure that we will declare victory? How could white people know the end of this so-called white privilege, if they don't even know it exists? That things are suddenly very shitty for them? How is that okay?
I would rather it be shitty for no race. Enforce the laws. No double standards. That is what gives stability to society. This is both measurable and practical.
Yes, I agree, that would be worse. The government should not give preferential treatment to any race.If you want to be willfully obtuse about it, sure, stick to a dictionary definition. If you can't acknowledge that institutional racism is worse than simply individuals holding racist beliefs, then I don't know what to tell you.
I've admitted that I personally have not been oppressed (any more than any other working man). I've shared with you that I am strongly against oppression and racism. I would defend any group's right to "parade". When people commit crimes they should be punished the same as every race. When people discriminate against other races for jobs, schools, military ...etc, they should be punished. Those are good laws. No, they a great laws.Aeon, I believe that your default mode is to fall back on the position that whites are being attacked (or will be attacked) by groups looking to gain acceptance and basic rights. This is an intellectually lazy defense which fails to take into consideration the complexity of the issue at hand. I believed you were better than that. Perhaps I was wrong.
There is a difference between saying something is "okay" and saying something should be "allowed."https://www.axios.com/9-of-american...macist-or-neo-nazi-views-poll-2475534976.html
30 million. Almost 1 in 10. We have one here.
rac·ism
ˈrāˌsizəm
noun
prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
- the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
Source: Google Dictionary
Yes, I agree, that would be worse. The government should not give preferential treatment to any race.
I've admitted that I personally have not been oppressed (any more than any other working man). I've shared with you that I am strongly against oppression and racism. I would defend any group's right to "parade". When people commit crimes they should be punished the same as every race. When people discriminate against other races for jobs, schools, military ...etc, they should be punished. Those are good laws. No, they a great laws.
It seems that these beliefs of mine are not really that controversial, even with the Left. If you really look closely at my arguments, I'm not arguing anything close to "Nazism". I'm arguing that all men and women are equal before the law. That law, and the government that enforces it, should be colorblind.
Heck, even the ACLU defends the neo-nazis' right to speak and march...
Well - that's a bit intellectually convenient isn't it? If someone disagrees with you - you can simply say, "According to MY definition of racism - only white people can be racist."People who actually study race and racism do not agree with this definition.
I agree, it is a challenge. But the white nationalist movement won't grow unless there is more violence against it. We are not 1920's Germany, we are a relatively prosperous nation with more than a few micro-cultures with access to ALL sides of any argument (which is a GOOD thing). Simply put - Nazi Germany rose from the conditions of that people and that time. In the US, there will never be anything like a Nazi Germany. What is more likely, is an ANTIFA "cleansing" of non-approved ideas...I think this discussion does raise a really interesting conundrum. AEON is adamant the right to free speech, to parade, be maintained. Even if those parading are nazis extolling some of the most horrific ideas humankind's ever had.
Yet history (albeit in other parts of the world) seems to suggest the best time to tackle these ideas is while they are still part of a small movement. And because of the nature of these ideas, and the effect these ideas seem to have on the people extolling them, tackling them with dialogue doesn't work.
So what do you do?
Again , 100 percent agree. I am in full support of orderly counter-protesting, writing articles that counter white nationalist ideology, videos showing the opposite POV...etc. America is healthy enough for debate. When people start starving - well then, it truly is anyone's game at that point (hello Neegan). Until then, I seriously believe most of our societal issues can be handled by debate (man, I do miss Christopher Hitchens!)AEON is right, I think, that legally speaking that 'parade' shouldn't have been met with violence. But for anyone to ignore the gravity of that 'parade' - in a historical sense and then extrapolating that out into future possibilities - is either ignorant or vile.
Agreed. All violence at these political event (Left or Right) are unacceptable.Also, violence towards those exercising free speech became a hallmark of Trump's pre-election rallies. His supporters man-handling and punching protesters, Trump encouraging violent action against anti-Trump protesters etc.
There are very, very few white nationalist. And of that few - even FEWER are willing to risk their careers by being televised waving a frikin' nazi flag (I wouldn't be surprised if we find out there is at least one or two "plants" just to make it seem more nazi - but that is ONLY a theory, I'm not sticking by it) ...The 'all-who-aren't-nazi' group probably should be utterly meticulous in ensuring they don't initiate any violence towards the alt-right over the coming months. Instead meet these parades with absolutely massive numbers.
I realize that. I realize I am skating on thin ice here (at least on this subject). I tend to play devil's advocate because deep down, I am a brat. At the same time, there is validity to what I am saying and I sincerely believe that NO racism (as defined by the dictionary) is better than "qualified" racism.It's not a good look when you're quicker to defend those who want to air their racist views than those who describe how racism impacts their lives.
Well - that's a bit intellectually convenient isn't it? If someone disagrees with you - you can simply say, "According to MY definition of racism - only white people can be racist."
Except that these people are academics who you know, actually study this stuff
I know both of them. You treated them like garbage. Surprise! They are no longer around.Moonlit_Angel said:I loved having conservatives like nbcrusader and 80sU2isBest here,
I know both of them. You treated them like garbage. Surprise! They are no longer around.
I meant it in a general sense, my apologiesI did? Or were you speaking in a general sense? 'Cause I have no memory of doing that. If I ever do upset anyone here with anything I say, it's certainly not intentional, and I'd gladly apologize to anyone who I may well have offended or angered somehow.
And I don't really remember other posters here treating them like garbage, either, but there were periods where I was in and out of this forum for a whole host of various reasons, so maybe I missed something go down?
argumentum ad passiones
It's not a good look when you're quicker to defend those who want to air their racist views than those who describe how racism impacts their lives.
I know both of them. You treated them like garbage. Surprise! They are no longer around.
I meant it in a general sense, my apologies
Nice of Trump to pardon a racist and sign an order banning transgender troops right as a hurricane is about to hit.
I think Aeon isn't the only white male feeling attacked and powerless, for whatever reason. There is a syndrome called "deaths of despair" right now which has particularly struck middle aged white males. These are deaths by violence, drug overdose, alcoholism and suicide all caused by despair, depression, or other mental illness. On my street alone I'm aware of two middle aged men committing suicide in the past year.While I can agree that it's never fun to be outnumbered, this seems a little overblown -- one of these posters did return not so long ago, and was like a different person, huge decline in the quality of posts and began citing articles from the laziest places in conservative media -- it can't be fun to defend bad ideas.
I would hardly blame the forum. I agree there are some people who are needlessly belligerent, but that's kind of how it goes on the internet. And though Melon no longer posts here, he put up with years of fairly rank homophobia from certain people (don't forget, U2 has a large Christian following as well) fought back, and today, in here, homophobia is about on par with racism.
So if the ideas were good, they'd eventually win, despite being unpopular or other posters treating them like garbage.
You were around then (before me, even).