The Work with Rubin

[luna_lovegood]

I dont think producers are worth a shit to be honest..I think its all about the drums.

a.

nice one.

 

[Chill Mike D]

would it be fair to suggest that most albums with multiple producers and scrapped sessions are generally poorer that those created with one producer or a team production...

just a thought...

Who's Next was made out of the leftover scraps of a failed attempt to record a concept album, and it was produced by a producer that The Who had never used before, since they had split from their longtime producer.

It turned out to be their best album by far, easily one of the best 5 albums of all time.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I agree. But Rubin hasn't had much success doing that with acts that are still relevant or doing well, it's only with acts that have slipped or below the radar.

fair enough

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

Who's Next was made out of the leftover scraps of a failed attempt to record a concept album, and it was produced by a producer that The Who had never used before, since they had split from their longtime producer.

It turned out to be their best album by far, easily one of the best 5 albums of all time.

And I think that an album worth of U2's leftovers and scraps is miles better than most of the other crap out today...

 

[ahittle]

Yeah, Rubin is good at salvaging bands and artists and helping them find their true worth. He's also good at honing sloppy, unfocused bands.

Are either of these U2? I don't think so, not right now anyway. Maybe he could've helped them during the Pop chaos, but I don't think a sterilized, Rubinized version of that record would be better than the obvious confusion of Pop.

But I like WITS, so who knows? At this point, U2 seem to be making another vibe-y record that isn't just about songcraft. And Rubin's not the guy for that. Long live Eno!

 

[Chill Mike D]

Yeah, I have to say that the Eno/Lanois albums are head and shoulders above the other albums.

 

[ponkine]

Rick Rubbish is one of the most boring and overrated producers ever. His attempt at work with the last 2 U2 singles is shite.

 

[shart1780]

Rubin may work with bands like Linkin Park, but Brian Eno just finished working with Coldplay.

I hate Coldplay too, but that's more due to personal preference I suppose. I don't think they're very good from a objective view either, but I can see the appeal I guess. Still, they annoy me.

But Linkin Park is a prime example of what's wrong with music today. Their music lacks any form of substance instrumentally, lyrically or vocally. Plus it's painfully fake emo crap. It's grating and I hate it.

And didn't Rubin produce The Saints are Coming and WitS? Yeah, those are some of the worst songs they've ever releasd. If those songs were any indication of Rubin's direction with U2 I'd say it's a very, very good thing he's out of the picture.

 

[pacemaker]

I think the main thing with Linkin Park is that every song sounds as though one person could have made it on their laptop. And they have like, 6 dudes in the band.

I don't find Linkin Park nearly as offensive as I once did... but they're pretty unnecessary.

And I think WitS and Saints are both really cool songs. The Green Day pairing never did anything for me, but it was a cool remake. And WitS is at least a snapshot of the band having some fun. I do love that song though.

 

[Scorpionac]

And I think that an album worth of U2's leftovers and scraps is miles better than most of the other crap out today...

It's probably better than U2's recent albums, too.

 

[Swan269]

Yeah you can't always judge a producer by who they worked with, sometimes they just like the challenge.

i think thats how eno felt when the band asked him to produce UF

 

[the tourist]

2 disc. Disc 1: Eno & Lanois. Disc 2: Rubin.

 

[shart1780]

Yeah you can't always judge a producer by who they worked with, sometimes they just like the challenge.

I highly doubt a producer loves going to work with a band he thinks sucks and continues making sucky albums with them. I mean, Rubin has been Linkin Park's main producer and he's got nothing to be proud of there. I can't picture him saying to himself "man all my work with them in the past sucked ass but things will be better on their 10th album".

 

[pacemaker]

I mean, Rubin has been Linkin Park's main producer and he's got nothing to be proud of there.

Yea, records that sell millions of albums are nothing to be proud of.

I'm not defending Linkin Park, but like it or not, the Music Industry has always been about the bottom line. And Rick Rubin has produced albums that move some serious fucking units.

Rubin has his pet projects and his business projects. If he kept to his pet projects and continued to produce Slayer and the Beastie Boys and bands like that forever, no one would give a shit about him, let alone grant him Co-Presidentship of Columbia Records.

Whether he likes Linkin Park's music is irrelevant. It's not 100% guaranteed that either Eno or Lanois, or Lillywhite or Flood, etc. for that matter like U2's music at all. But they work well together, and in the end it's a producer's job to figure out how to get the best representations of the songs the band present, onto a tangible product to sell or distribute to the masses*.



*Broad definition

 

[Visiongfx]

Rubin may work with bands like Linkin Park, but Brian Eno just finished working with Coldplay.

Ouch, coldplay is easily in my top 5 favorite bands and i'm really excited for thier next album especially being witih eno.

 

[pacemaker]

Ouch, coldplay is easily in my top 5 favorite bands and i'm really excited for thier next album especially being witih eno.

Haha. Sorry, Coldplay are my go to band for making fun. No disrespect, it's just with them... it's too easy.

 

[BVS]

I highly doubt a producer loves going to work with a band he thinks sucks and continues making sucky albums with them. I mean, Rubin has been Linkin Park's main producer and he's got nothing to be proud of there. I can't picture him saying to himself "man all my work with them in the past sucked ass but things will be better on their 10th album".

Their main producer? What are you talking about, he's produced one album, right? According to the two websites I checked out(I don't know, I'm not a fan).

And I can see Rubin's appeal, he started off with hip hop, he's done some hard rock, this kind of combines the two, he doesn't necessarily have to love their music to say, maybe I can do something with that...

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

Do we even know for sure All My Life was recorded with Rubin? I know Window In The Skies is from the same set of beach clips but did the band ever say how much material they recorded with Rubin?

 

[U2girl]

I think they said 4 or 5 songs were done with Rubin.

 

[U2girl]

Looking at this

http://www.atu2.com/newalbum/

I'm more convinced Rubin didn't work. Look at all the "we like it with him" quotes in 2006, only to see Edge winking with that "you might be surprised how quickly that happens" quote when asked about Eno and Lanois. Sure enough, they were on board in 2007. He also said there's two sets of material, but clearly they're pushing the Eno/Lanois material forward and I really think Rubin's work got scrapped.

Once again, the band switches producers during album making...like all albums after Zooropa (and I believe there was a break in between making ATYCLB, too). I just hope Eno and Lanois deliver this time.

 

[mofo82]

Part of me thinks they got with Rubin to find some relevant sounds that would translate to 2008, not U2 circa 2000 or 2004, then take that into the latest sessions with Eno and Lanois where there are no limits. I'm not really familiar with Rubin but he seems like a 'pop' guy with the range artists he's worked with, and we've learned how important that is to U2 in the 2000's. I don't see them doing a 180 and abandoning a sound that can find the radio. All speculation aside, I don't think we will know until the band decides to officially release the Rubin Sessions' early takes like they did with 'Unreleased & Rare' where we have a clue how the Thomas Sessions sounded.

EDIT/ADDED:

I doubt they 'scrapped' that work, but used it to bring something into the current sessions.

I have to throw this out there...I got a feeling just recently how the same way that Rattle & Hum was an extention of the Joshua Tree, that HTDAAB was the same to ATYCLB. Not that each successor was an exact duplicate, but you can hear their blueprint in action. After Rattle & Hum, the band needed a departure, or else you have 3 consecutive similar sounding album. With all the talk of 'trilogies' around here, the argument can be made (making it here) that there has never been any 3rd consecutive album that have sounded the same as it's 2 previous. I think the band knows the point where they are their own cover band in studio and might've reached it with WITS.

UF sounds nothing like R&H, Boy nothing like War, Pop nothing like HTDAAB, AB and Pop have some similarities but nothing like JT and R&H back to back, but you do hear alot of carry over from R&H to AB, i.e. God Part II -->The Fly. Hopefully, this is some evidence that we might hear the samples of the best of the Bomb (Crumbs, LAPOE, even Vertigo's riffs) carry into the new work. I actually expect to hear things like that come through, but ultimately unlike the last two albums. Insert Eno and Lanois who have likely grown as artists and accumulated new tastes since they last collaborated this extensively.

Does this make any sense?

 

[Needle_Chill]

What was the timeframe for the HTDAAB sessions compared to this time around? I was around at the time, but I forget exactly when they gave Thomas the boot. Wasn't it pretty near the completion of the album, after a lot of material had been pursued and they came up empty-handed or unsatisfied? I remember when Lanois was reported visiting the studio... and I remember thinking 'uh oh.' Subsequently they went to Lillywhite and there was a very strong sense that he was there to lay down the law and right the ship.

I don't get the same feeling from this record. I don't think the Eno/ Lanois connection came in as a lifeline to save their poor effort under Rubin. I think the Rubin sessions were more an experiment during the inter-album lull to get some ideas and material finalized for Katrina and for an inter-album single (WITS).

If they were dissatisfied with the quality or direction of the material I don't think it had much of an effect on this new album, especially considering all the material they pumped out of Fez etc. The band did not exactly sound urgent or panicked in Fez... trying to recover from anything. It's possible, based on the quotes coming out of the Fez sessions, that they had one of their most productive collaborations ever with Eno/ Lanois and are pushing in that direction sheerly out of excitement at the quality of the material, not a reaction to Rubin's work. Personally, I wasn't happy with Saints or WITS, so I'm hoping Rubin doesn't surface again... and at least its evident that vibe coming from those 2 singles will not reflect that of the album.

 

[pacemaker]

Rubin is notorious for his approach with recording bands, which is, come to the studio with the songs and record them with little experimentation or improvisation.

I'll bet U2 wanted to take a shot with Rubin, but his work ethics didn't mesh all that well with theirs. When was the last time U2 went into a studio with all of their songs FINISHED? 1980?

 

[Needle_Chill]

Part of me thinks they got with Rubin to find some relevant sounds that would translate to 2008, not U2 circa 2000 or 2004, then take that into the latest sessions with Eno and Lanois where there are no limits. I'm not really familiar with Rubin but he seems like a 'pop' guy with the range artists he's worked with, and we've learned how important that is to U2 in the 2000's. I don't see them doing a 180 and abandoning a sound that can find the radio. All speculation aside, I don't think we will know until the band decides to officially release the Rubin Sessions' early takes like they did with 'Unreleased & Rare' where we have a clue how the Thomas Sessions sounded.

EDIT/ADDED:

I doubt they 'scrapped' that work, but used it to bring something into the current sessions.

I have to throw this out there...I got a feeling just recently how the same way that Rattle & Hum was an extention of the Joshua Tree, that HTDAAB was the same to ATYCLB. Not that each successor was an exact duplicate, but you can hear their blueprint in action. After Rattle & Hum, the band needed a departure, or else you have 3 consecutive similar sounding album. With all the talk of 'trilogies' around here, the argument can be made (making it here) that there has never been any 3rd consecutive album that have sounded the same as it's 2 previous. I think the band knows the point where they are their own cover band in studio and might've reached it with WITS.

UF sounds nothing like R&H, Boy nothing like War, Pop nothing like HTDAAB, AB and Pop have some similarities but nothing like JT and R&H back to back, but you do hear alot of carry over from R&H to AB, i.e. God Part II -->The Fly. Hopefully, this is some evidence that we might hear the samples of the best of the Bomb (Crumbs, LAPOE, even Vertigo's riffs) carry into the new work. I actually expect to hear things like that come through, but ultimately unlike the last two albums. Insert Eno and Lanois who have likely grown as artists and accumulated new tastes since they last collaborated this extensively.

Does this make any sense?

There's definitely a sense of departure coming from these recording sessions, much like was seen between R&H and AB. I think the band definitely knows when things need to take a left turn, but it's whether or not they can still take the risks and put in the work necessary to do so that I'm fascinated to see. HTDAAB was supposed to be a stripped down rock record... but it did not have a very strong direction in the end, and it fell back into a pattern with ATYCLB in its scope.

Doubtless there will be some elements that carry over from HTDAAB to the next record, that's inescapable. I just hope Eno and Lanois can help take the record somewhere else if the band is stuck in 2004. I said before in another post: I think the fact that Eno and Lanois were there when U2 chopped down the Joshua Tree will help both parties a great deal in knowing what it takes to get the U2 machine chugging in another direction.

 

[vaz02]

Just reading you guys gets me excited .

 

[mofo82]

There's definitely a sense of departure coming from these recording sessions, much like was seen between R&H and AB. I think the band definitely knows when things need to take a left turn, but it's whether or not they can still take the risks and put in the work necessary to do so that I'm fascinated to see.

Doubtless there will be some elements that carry over from HTDAAB to the next record, that's inescapable. I just hope Eno and Lanois can help take the record somewhere else if the band is stuck in 2004. I said before in another post: I think the fact that Eno and Lanois were there when U2 chopped down the Joshua Tree will help both parties a great deal in knowing what it takes to get the U2 machine chugging in another direction.

I like the public addition of Eno and Lanois as songwriters and performers with U2. That's what excites me the most. I think it exhibits that they wanted this change and didn't have a knee jerk reaction to bad demos with Rubin. I don't know if I'm in the minority here, but if Eno & Lanois are as prominent on the album as I'm imagining, I'd love to have them full-out tour with the group, something we've never had before, that just might shake the whole bag of tricks up, whether it be setlists or arrangements to songs we all know SO WELL, *cough One, Pride cough*.

EDIT/ADDED

To boot, their presence might give them the courage and sound to finally perform songs that just don't seem right performed only by U2 proper on stage. For example, and I don't know a whole lot on them, but Pearl Jam has more support on stage with Ken 'Boom' Gaspar, who began working with them in 2002, mainly as pianist/keyboardist and has even delved into songwriting with them. Live, it adds so much depth. He even got songwriting credit for LoveBoatCaptain, one of my personal favorite PJ songs. If Eno and Lanois are added into, become part of U2 as we know them through the process of this album, that can be the best move possible.

I read a little of U2 by U2 the other day , towards the beginning of the ZOO TV section, where they talk about how many people were involved in the idea stages and there were no shortages for ideas. If it worked for the visual live shows, just how great it could be in the studio. I don't think it would become a problem of too many chefs in the kitchen.

 

[pacemaker]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM is a GREAT addition to Pearl Jam. His organ solos during Crazy Mary make an already astonishing live (cover) staple even better.

I would love it if Eno and Lanois ended up touring with U2. Although, I suspect that both being busy, prolific men, going on a U2-sized tour would negate a lot of business for them. Not like they wouldn't be raking it in after co-writing credits on the album and tour money.

 

[mofo82]

Rubin is notorious for his approach with recording bands, which is, come to the studio with the songs and record them with little experimentation or improvisation.

I'll bet U2 wanted to take a shot with Rubin, but his work ethics didn't mesh all that well with theirs. When was the last time U2 went into a studio with all of their songs FINISHED? 1980?

I agree with you pacemaker that the Rubin sessions were probably really tough if that is the case, that they must go in with him with little or no experimentation. U2 are all about experimentation, the root of any artist.

I've posted before that I feel U2 are more than just musicians, but stronger artists. Guys like Larry don't come across as artists but he is. They make music then do something else to it, expanding on each and every creation. From a song's inception to the live forum, and re-creating it years later (SBS from Popmart, or BTBS for example), and probably most importantly, acting on the music with the aid and support given to those the music is made for and dedicated to.

 

[mofo82]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM is a GREAT addition to Pearl Jam. His organ solos during Crazy Mary make an already astonishing live (cover) staple even better.

I would love it if Eno and Lanois ended up touring with U2. Although, I suspect that both being busy, prolific men, going on a U2-sized tour would negate a lot of business for them. Not like they wouldn't be raking it in after co-writing credits on the album and tour money.

U2 need to steal BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM (sorry PJ), or at least clone him and return to sender.

No more prerecorded synths for Bad!!!

Seriously, U2 need that injection (not HGH) but something like that.

 

[U2girl]

mofo82: yes, people have been noticing the JT/Rattle and Hum : ATYCLB/Bomb paralelles. Similar sound, critiques of the singer's attitude on stage, the preachy tour talk and rumours of change later...

I would guess Rubin's work sounded a lot like that (see WITS, All my life etc) and it wasn't inspiring (I remember a member here posting no Rubin/U2 songs were presented to Eno and Lanois) so enter Eno and Lanois, and they went to Morocco. The one thing the band, producers and media are saying it's different to the last two albums. I think the band sucked out pretty much all the big genres of the Western music so it's off to Africa.

I'm curious how the said "songwriting only" method will feature on the album. Sure they're usually producing only, but has there been a U2 album where Lanois didn't play a guitar or Eno didn't feature on the keyboards ? What's different now ?