The Social Phenomenon Of "Stupid Girls"

[UberBeaver]

Perhaps more girls should look up to role models like her

HAWT!

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Smart isn't sexy, most guys don't want to feel intimidated by a female of potentially higher intellectual capacity. Many guys find stupider girls more appealing as they can be controlled more easily and our role as the 'dominant' sex isn't threatened.

Well if you really believe that, most women are turned off by men with that attitude. The sad fact is that you do have a point, some men do have that attitude. Oh well, smart women don't want to be with men who are like that anyway. If I have to dumb myself down and act in a silly way to be appealing to a man, I'd much prefer sitting on a porch w/ a bunch of cats. I've never done that (dumbed myself down) so I guess that's one reason why I am so unappealing.

Dominant sex? I don't believe in anyone being dominant.

 

[deep]

Not a Stupid girl

she has made a few magazine covers


young girls should look up to her. \/

 

[Carek1230]

Well if you really believe that, most women are turned off by men with that attitude. The sad fact is that you do have a point, some men do have that attitude. Oh well, smart women don't want to be with men who are like that anyway. If I have to dumb myself down and act in a silly way to be appealing to a man, I'd much prefer sitting on a porch w/ a bunch of cats. I've never done that (dumbed myself down) so I guess that's one reason why I am so unappealing.

Dominant sex? I don't believe in anyone being dominant.

Mrs S!!! Well said!

 

[deep]

Dominant sex? I don't believe in anyone being dominant.

you could take turns

just have a "safe" word.

 

[Bono's shades]

I normally can't stand Oprah, but good for her for covering this topic. I'm sick of seeing so many portrayals of stupid, shallow females in pop culture. I miss the '90s, when a TV character like Agent Scully from the X-Files was considered both a role model and a sex symbol.

Pink's video is great - the part where she's parodying Jessica Simpson in the These Boots Are Made For Walking Video is pure comedy gold! But I always have to look away when she gets to the part about bullimia. I understand the point she's trying to make, but I just can't stand watching people barf on screen.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

While I see the effects of the so called "stupid girl" culture every day at school I can't help but wonder what kind of message these girls are getting at home. Maybe it's time to stop blaming pop culture and focus on what's going on at home.

 

[BrownEyedBoy]

I think this is especially true on girls who are just stupid because they allow themselves to be taken advantage of. For example, "Girls Gone Wild", what self respecting girl does that? Yet there are so many who crave attention so much that they are willing to degrade themselves to a piece of meat.

I know of several girls that have kissed other girls just to be sexy. I don't get it. Why would you do such a thing only for attention?

Some girls want attention so much that they turn promiscous without knowing that this actually hurts their cause.

 

[catlhere]

I think this is especially true on girls who are just stupid because they allow themselves to be taken advantage of. For example, "Girls Gone Wild", what self respecting girl does that? Yet there are so many who crave attention so much that they are willing to degrade themselves to a piece of meat.

I know of several girls that have kissed other girls just to be sexy. I don't get it. Why would you do such a thing only for attention?

Some girls want attention so much that they turn promiscous without knowing that this actually hurts their cause.

Well I'm sure a good amount of alcohol in their system helps as well.

As for the whole "Stupid Girls" epidemic. I think as long as the public continues to enjoy keeping tabs on those type of celebrities' lives, there will always be bimbos around for girls to emulate. I'm not sure though if it's mostly an "act" to be cute, as Pink says. I think some of these people are grade-A morons
Another thing to look at is that Hollywood and the music industry revolve around looks alot of times. If a girl has a beautiful image, she can exploit it all the way to the bank, without any need for intelligence. You are rewarded for being pretty and dumb.

Oh and the comment about guys liking dumber girls that everyone is getting offended by is somewhat true (unfortunately). As much as girls hate the fact, guys like girls who act ditsy because it's cute and funny (to a point, of course). I mean, check out that Pickler (sp?) girl on American Idol. She is obviously not that bright, but guys would totally marry her and she hasn't been voted off. When girls act intelligent, dominant, and strong-willed, guys interperate it as bitchy and get turned off. We are a pretty lazy bunch (well i think we are haha) so perhaps we enjoy not having much of a challenge when it comes to females, and naturally are just drawn to something that is more attractive physically than mentally. Maybe that is another reason why girls are copying the "Stupid Girls"

As for Pink? I can't stand her. I think it's funny that she disses on people who use an "image" to sell themselves and yet she herself is selling the image of the "outcast" "anti-popular" person fighting against the in-crowd to appeal to people like that. Pretty hypocritical. It's like, I dunno, gothic people or whatever who call everyone conformists while they follow their own little sub-culture of similarity. It's just annoying seeing people criticize how others act when they have just as much a right to be who they want as the ones criticizing in the first place do.

 

[jessi-ma-ca]

Some girls want attention so much that they turn promiscous without knowing that this actually hurts their cause.

this is so true... the play the dumb sex kitten time after time. and they do this for two reasons.
One- role models
Two- it works for them, they achieve their desired result, male attention.

Despite the controversial debate above about the “dominate” sex, often younger boys, I’m talking teens and early twenties are also exposed to this idea the that dumb girls are the sexy ones. They can also fall into the trap that they are already a little unsure with girls in there life at this stage of growth, and it turns out that the dumb ones are far less challenging and perhaps easier to communicate with.

I think its it is a hard stereo-type to brake

 

[Liesje]

I have a few issues with the "stupid girl" thing

1) Pink isn't exactly in a position to really be calling people out on this. Sure, she has a pink mohawk and sings about how dumb Britney Spears is, but lets not forget this is the same woman that recorded..

Get this party started on a Saturday night
Everybody's waitin for me to arrive
Sendin' out the message to all of my friends
We'll be lookin flashy in my Mercedes Benz
I got lotsa style, got my gold diamond rings
I can go for miles if you know what I mean
I'm comin' up so you better you better get this party started
I'm comin' up so you better you better get this party started

2) Like other public arenas - politics, religion, sports, the news - it's not the ones that are the most deserving, or the most representative of norms that get the attention, it's the ones that are the loudest and most controversial. I think total I've spent less than 10 minutes of my entire life wasting brain cells thinking about people like Paris, Jessica, Ashlee, Britney, etc. My friends and family are the same way. I've never met anyone who's been directly influenced by a "Stupid Girl".

 

[Angela Harlem]

Pity not everyone is brainy.

 

[indra]

Pity not everyone is brainy.

Well, the non-brainy chicks have the stupid girls to admire and emulate.

 

[beau2ifulday]

Somewhat trivial, but I'll post it anyway for anyone who hasn't seen it. J.K Rowling wrote a response to Pink's 'Stupid Girls' on her website:

Being thin. Probably not a subject that you ever expected to read about on this website, but my recent trip to London got me thinking...

It started in the car on the way to Leavesden film studios. I whiled away part of the journey reading a magazine that featured several glossy photographs of a very young woman who is either seriously ill or suffering from an eating disorder (which is, of course, the same thing); anyway, there is no other explanation for the shape of her body. She can talk about eating absolutely loads, being terribly busy and having the world's fastest metabolism until her tongue drops off (hooray! Another couple of ounces gone!), but her concave stomach, protruding ribs and stick-like arms tell a different story. This girl needs help, but, the world being what it is, they're sticking her on magazine covers instead. All this passed through my mind as I read the interview, then I threw the horrible thing aside.

But blow me down if the subject of girls and thinness didn't crop up shortly after I got out of the car. I was talking to one of the actors and, somehow or other, we got onto the subject of a girl he knows (not any of the Potter actresses – somebody from his life beyond the films) who had been dubbed 'fat' by certain charming classmates. (Could they possibly be jealous that she knows the boy in question? Surely not!)

'But,' said the actor, in honest perplexity, 'she is really not fat.'

'"Fat" is usually the first insult a girl throws at another girl when she wants to hurt her,' I said; I could remember it happening when I was at school, and witnessing it among the teenagers I used to teach. Nevertheless, I could see that to him, a well-adjusted male, it was utterly bizarre behaviour, like yelling 'thicko!' at Stephen Hawking.

His bemusement at this everyday feature of female existence reminded me how strange and sick the 'fat' insult is. I mean, is 'fat' really the worst thing a human being can be? Is 'fat' worse than 'vindictive', 'jealous', 'shallow', 'vain', 'boring' or 'cruel'? Not to me; but then, you might retort, what do I know about the pressure to be skinny? I'm not in the business of being judged on my looks, what with being a writer and earning my living by using my brain...

I went to the British Book Awards that evening. After the award ceremony I bumped into a woman I hadn't seen for nearly three years. The first thing she said to me? 'You've lost a lot of weight since the last time I saw you!'

'Well,' I said, slightly nonplussed, 'the last time you saw me I'd just had a baby.'

What I felt like saying was, 'I've produced my third child and my sixth novel since I last saw you. Aren't either of those things more important, more interesting, than my size?' But no – my waist looked smaller! Forget the kid and the book: finally, something to celebrate!

So the issue of size and women was (ha, ha) weighing on my mind as I flew home to Edinburgh the next day. Once up in the air, I opened a newspaper and my eyes fell, immediately, on an article about the pop star Pink.

Her latest single, 'Stupid Girls', is the antidote-anthem for everything I had been thinking about women and thinness. 'Stupid Girls' satirises the talking toothpicks held up to girls as role models: those celebrities whose greatest achievement is un-chipped nail polish, whose only aspiration seems to be getting photographed in a different outfit nine times a day, whose only function in the world appears to be supporting the trade in overpriced handbags and rat-sized dogs.

Maybe all this seems funny, or trivial, but it's really not. It's about what girls want to be, what they're told they should be, and how they feel about who they are. I've got two daughters who will have to make their way in this skinny-obsessed world, and it worries me, because I don't want them to be empty-headed, self-obsessed, emaciated clones; I'd rather they were independent, interesting, idealistic, kind, opinionated, original, funny – a thousand things, before 'thin'. And frankly, I'd rather they didn't give a gust of stinking chihuahua flatulence whether the woman standing next to them has fleshier knees than they do. Let my girls be Hermiones, rather than Pansy Parkinsons. Let them never be Stupid Girls. Rant over.

I'm not particularly impressed by either the aforementioned 'rant' or Pink's lyrics, but then I suspect I'm not the target audience that the song (or the rant, I suppose) is aimed at.

 

[dazzlingamy]

While i agree, that this 'stupid girls' hysteria is real and great and i thank le gods im not anything like them, i disagree with the statement 'boys like girls to be less smart then them' and that all men like the pre pubescent ana look, or the paris hilton kewie porn star look because honestly, its not true.

SOME guys might like that, but you know what? There the guys IM (and other like me) arn't interested in. The chauvanistic pigs, men who "typically" are the jocks who probably need a really dumb girl because they arn't all smart anyway. The arrogant guys, who think they look like the next brad pitt, kissing their hot bodies and cam whoring themselves into oblivion. These are the guys who like those kinds of girls and vice versa. So although its a worrying thing for girls to not have role models, i still think its a "Type" of girl who acts that way.

I think it makes these girls more susseptable to be acting like this when you make genralisations about guys like that. I think we all know the "jock" of the school is going to end up with 5 kids out of wedlock and a drinking problem, while the funny kooky chess nerd is going to go on to college do something interesting with his life and be the most genuine sweet loving husband to some lucky girl (yes i genralised a bit, apologies hahaha)

But really, i dont want a man who would want a "stupid girl" i want a man who shudders at nicole ritchies prepubescent body, laughs his ass off everytime jessica opens her mouth and knows paris for what she really is white trash b grade porn star with credit cards. THATS my kind of man!!! A man who is interested in world affairs, knows where turkmenistan is and wants to see the world! Thats my boyfriend!

 

[anitram]

Unfortunately there is still a segment of our society that doesn't want our women to be too ambitious. And even more sadly, that segment is made up of both men and women - the hostility that ultra-successful women experience in the workplace and in social situations from other women can be truly astounding, and I've never really understood it.

Think about it - there are obviously benefits to this stupid, idiotic, vapid behaviour. If there weren't any, there wouldn't be such a propagation of the Hiltons.

 

[Bono's shades]

While I see the effects of the so called "stupid girl" culture every day at school I can't help but wonder what kind of message these girls are getting at home. Maybe it's time to stop blaming pop culture and focus on what's going on at home.

That's a good point. A girl whose parents encourage her to do well in school and be ambitious and independent is probably lot less likely to fall for this crap.

 

[AliEnvy]

Unfortunately there is still a segment of our society that doesn't want our women to be too ambitious. And even more sadly, that segment is made up of both men and women - the hostility that ultra-successful women experience in the workplace and in social situations from other women can be truly astounding, and I've never really understood it.

Intelligence and ambition are far more acceptable now than ever...just don't be sexy too...very powerful combo. It's the combination that brings out the most competitive hostility from both men and women.

 

[Sue DeNym]

While I see the effects of the so called "stupid girl" culture every day at school I can't help but wonder what kind of message these girls are getting at home. Maybe it's time to stop blaming pop culture and focus on what's going on at home.

When you see five-year-old girls wearing T-shirts that say "Porn Star" and jeans with "Sexy" or "Juicy" written across the backside, you can't entirely blame the TV.

I'm glad to see celebrities like Pink and J. K. Rowling taking up the "smart girls" cause. Our daughters need to know that you don't have to be a Barbie doll. So what if the idiot boys in High School don't like brainy girls? To hell with those fools. There will always be decent, smart, sensible men who will want decent, smart, sensible women. I know; I married one!

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

When you see five-year-old girls wearing T-shirts that say "Porn Star" and jeans with "Sexy" or "Juicy" written across the backside, you can't entirely blame the TV.

Of course you're right, I agree 100 %. When I see clothes like that on little kids (and I have) I definitely wonder wtf is wrong w/ the parents.

Whatever anyone thinks of Pink I think this is an important subject worth talking about. And it doesn't negate all the great parents out there and the girls who don't lose themselves in all of the cultural pressure. It was tough enough when I was that age, I can't imagine what it's like now. I don't want to attack the girls, I sympathize and know what it's like. Even as a woman I know.

 

[Angela Harlem]

I'm stuck with this thread. I'm not sure if I'm not fully understanding the 'stupid girl' phenomenon, or if I think that some of this is simply misplaced. Firstly it is best to ask what is the stupid girl phenomenon? The above about the little girls wearing these dreadful slogans is not the same, I'd hope. That is simply dreadful regardless and based on it being entirely inappropriate for a little girl to wear saucy slogans or adult themes. Moving up to teens and even pre-teens who (here) have taken to wearing horridly short shorts, large belts, layered singlets etc, it is a hideous fashion trend (which I absolutely hate) but it in no way reflects the girl - unless you let it. And by letting it, it's seemingly becoming anti-feminism. The feminists themselves say this is dangerous because it dumbs down teens. It feeds the pop culture mob mentality, it devoids girls of individuality and ambition and all these other things. However, if you look at them and choose not to think that then it is powerless and remains nothing more than shocking dress sense. In pop culture, how are these singers any different? Britney Spears, for example, seems rather dumb. But that is because there is a 2 dimensional portrayal of her based on supply and demand of looks and sex selling. She might be a bad example as she might very well be rather 'dumb'. But firstly who knows that for sure when we can only go by the media, and secondly, define 'dumb'? She's made shitloads more money than any mensa member will ever make (most likely) and is seemingly doing somehting she enjoys. Just how stupid is she? We might find it stupid because we think there are better pursuits and ways to go as far as you can, but it was her choice. Not mine, or anyone else's.

In the end, I reckon society at large is still not willing to let women and girls just be whatever they want. Society still judges and makes assumptions. We still want to assign a role to women, be it housewife, multi doctrate graduate, sex symbol, whatever. There's always some segment of society who complains and dislikes one or more of these.

 

[Sue DeNym]

Firstly it is best to ask what is the stupid girl phenomenon? The above about the little girls wearing these dreadful slogans is not the same, I'd hope. That is simply dreadful regardless and based on it being entirely inappropriate for a little girl to wear saucy slogans or adult themes. Moving up to teens and even pre-teens who (here) have taken to wearing horridly short shorts, large belts, layered singlets etc, it is a hideous fashion trend (which I absolutely hate) but it in no way reflects the girl - unless you let it.

The reason I brought it up is because it's parents who buy their children's clothes. And if they disrespect their daughters enough to buy them clothes that proclaim them as "Porn Star" or "Sexy" when they're barely out of diapers, what does that teach the girl? That her sexuality is the only part of her that matters -- not her brain, feelings, talents or personality.

That little girl whose stupid parents dressed her in the "Porn Star" shirt could have been the next Marie Curie or Golda Meir, had her parents the sense to let her be what she was and not tried to force her into some artificial mold. While there are some cases where a child has gone wrong no matter how much love and energy her parents gave to her, the fact of the matter is it all starts at home.

Parents need to teach their daughters that they are human beings, with worth and value, and to nurture their minds and abilities to be the best person they can be. If the parents don't do that, the daughter could easily be swept away into the shallow, plastic culture that tells them they're worthless unless they're beautiful, vapid and sleep around.

 

[Carek1230]

Parents can do all they possibly are able to do, but I belive that it is PEER PRESSURE that is so strong these days, that is's evilness sucks kids into doing things they otherwise would not have which includes dressing provacatively and dumbing themselves down. It really is sad. I've even often said I feel peer pressure is sometimes worse than drugs and drinking for teens.

 

[Sue DeNym]

I am not discounting peer pressure. It can be horrific. But it all starts at home. If mom and dad don't care about their daughter, she won't care about herself and will be buffetted by every trend that comes along. If mom and dad raise their daughter in a positive, loving environment and teach her that she is a valued, intelligent, lovable human being, she should be better able to withstand peer pressure.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

The reason I brought it up is because it's parents who buy their children's clothes. And if they disrespect their daughters enough to buy them clothes that proclaim them as "Porn Star" or "Sexy" when they're barely out of diapers, what does that teach the girl? That her sexuality is the only part of her that matters -- not her brain, feelings, talents or personality.

That little girl whose stupid parents dressed her in the "Porn Star" shirt could have been the next Marie Curie or Golda Meir, had her parents the sense to let her be what she was and not tried to force her into some artificial mold. While there are some cases where a child has gone wrong no matter how much love and energy her parents gave to her, the fact of the matter is it all starts at home.

Parents need to teach their daughters that they are human beings, with worth and value, and to nurture their minds and abilities to be the best person they can be. If the parents don't do that, the daughter could easily be swept away into the shallow, plastic culture that tells them they're worthless unless they're beautiful, vapid and sleep around.

I agree. Of course Angela I would never say that the clothes refect the girl, that a girl wearing that is a slut or anything like that and I agree w/ your point about that being anti-feminist. But I agree w/ what Sue said-after all, do you ever see young boys wearing clothes like that? I just think it's conveying the wrong idea. The shallow plastic culture in which girls are being stupid by losing themselves in order to fit a certain image and mold. These girls who are famous and not famous are not stupid, but they are being stupid by playing stupid in order to be popular, successful, etc. Of course one could say it's smart to do it like Jessica Simpson does (smart in terms of making her a ton of money), but at what price does she do that and do all girls ultimately possibly pay as a result?

It's tough to put into words but I think the articles from oprah.com say it better than I ever could.

 

[foray]

^^ Mrs S, boys wear t-shirts that say "Kill" or "Slacker" etc instead (I once dated a guy like that *cough*) so... Nah, I'd actually ignore the young's choice of attire. It's more likely a phase. Thinking in terms of bad and good clothing (I know that's not what you said) reminds me of the convoluted thinking of religious fundies I've had to deal with, ha ha ha ...

Does this 'stupid girl phenomenon' stem from women saying to each other about men "Let them think they're smarter; we know better and can manipulate them with our wiles"? Maybe, I wonder.

Smart young women role models:

Keira Knightley, Scarlett Johansson (so why did they have to model nude?), "Hermione", Natalie Portman, Kirsten Dunst...

foray

 

[foray]

p/s. I'm 100% behind the point somebody made about self-image starting at home. The biggest feminist statement my mother ever made was raising three independent daughters.

foray

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Well I don't consider myself a "fundie" at all, the clothing is just one small part of the larger issue. I'm much more concerned w/ how all of this affects girls' self-esteem and place in the world. Of course it starts at home, if only all girls could have what they need at home. I don't think I ever really did, but at least I was never told to be stupid-even though my relative, reasonably OK intelligence wasn't exactly applauded-well not to my satisfaction I suppose.

And Natalie Portman was one they mentioned, along w/ Reese Witherspoon and Angelina

As to the manipulation well I like to think we can manipulate much better w/ our intelligence than w/ our wiles or playing games, sexual or stupid or otherwise.

Like I asked, is it much ado about a fad? I just can't remember any time in my life in which being a "stupid girl" was so valued by our culture. It never even entered my mind as a kid or teenager. And honestly I know some adult women who do it now.

 

[lateforwork]

Whata bout the intellectuals? Like Natalie Portman and Julia Stiles? They are banking but also promoting education at Ivy League Schools.

 

[Tania]

I admire Pink, she comes across as a strong, independent person, much in the mode of Madonna. She has the ability to use something to her advantage. I don't see her running around in a sackcloth, so I kind of feel that her attitude towards other "starlets" is a bit hypocritical. Though, it is good that people think about the types of role models there are available to young women (and perhaps even more importantly to young men).

Media/marketing/PR whatever you want to call it, has massive clout in the perceptions of young women, especially those in the 12-25 age bracket (which may seem a rather huge age group but this group seems to be targetted for a number of reasons - ie, future spenders, chance to get someone to like a brand and become attached to it for a long time, etc) Unfortunately, sex and being good looking sells. If miss chess player wasn't good looking would anyone be interested in her, think of the tennis stars who get in the newspapers, that young golfer isn't exactly hard on the eye. It is important to note that these people are not stupid. They are manipulating the current whims of society to get what they want. Good golfer, want to play in the men's tournaments and earn the bigger dollars (another area that needs to be looked at) and happen to be good looking, well come on, what are you going to do?

I think it is important for parents to teach their children that they can do anything they want if they have the ambition and the perserverence, no matter what gender the child happens to be.

After discussions with my daughter about this song, the message for us was that there are many ways to get to where you want to go and while you may have a fantastic figure or a gorgeous face, it ain't gonna last forever and do you really want to have to wonder that you got to where you wanted to be based solely on looks.

Having said that, this is the society that we live in. There is no getting away from the fact that being good looking in any area will get you further, or at least open a few doors that might otherwise be closed.

On the clothes discussion, up to a certain age, yes clothes are primarily determined by parents. I have a real issue with a lot of the choices that are available. I don't want my youngest daughter looking like an adult or a teenager (or a fairy but hey she likes it so we won't go there ).

Teenager's have a pack mentality. Noone really wants to stand out from the crowd or be picked on, hence the need for all to look the same (how many of us shortened our school uniforms or wore skirts too tight or short much to the horror of our parents, how many of us wear the corporate uniform to fit in with those that we work with, look around the next time you go out - how many of us are wearing the same outfit). Many teens are just trying to find their niche.

I think that we have to be careful how this message comes across, what you wear does not directly relate to who you are and while some people might see the Britney's and Jessica Simpson's of this world as being stupid, why not look at the positives (would you be brave enough to skip around washing a car in a bikini that small or that "pink" - isn't it ironic?, how much time and effort goes into looking like that, and whould you really want to do that?)

I think also, that in these situations, you would hope that it is the woman that is determining their own success. Though, I am sure that a lot of people are employed to bring the "Britney" product to our screens.

I am more concerned with those images which appear in predominantly male music videos portraying women as objects rather than human beings. Perhaps it is this area that needs some work.

Finally, it is interesting to note how nasty we can be to our own sex. Take a look at some of the comments posted here in the thread regarding Adam and his fiance. How many of us picked holes in her clothes and yet here we are saying that what you look like shouldn't make a difference?