Spider-Man 2.0 discussion...

[MissVelvetDress_75]

Maybe a TV did end up in the pool.

 

[MissVelvetDress_75]

What is the story about Boner showing up drunk with supermodels?

That's fucking funny.

A courtroom battle would likely force Bono to respond to the e-mail claims that in January 2011, soon after “Spider-Man” actors were injured because of technical problems and when the musical was a laughingstock on late-night television, he showed up at a creative meeting with supermodels in tow, too drunk on beer to contribute usefully.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/05/theater/spider-man-e-mails-revealed-in-taymor-lawsuit.html so yeah, emails about Bono being Bono. I would like to read that. *love all this drama and eats popcorn as we watch it unfold*

 

[mama cass]

I have to stick up for Bono a little bit here. He has a pretty good reputation as far as celebs goes, and really doesn't typically bad rock star behaviour. Of course, if he did whats alleged, it's incredibly unprofessional, and seems like it would be out of character for him...but maybe not, we really don't know. But by and large I think he behaves with more professionalism that most in his position.

Having said, that, nothing in this lawsuit makes him look very good, so far, and Edge actually comes across as more of an adult here.

I'm amazed how easily people fall for these he said she said bullshit dramas as they play out in public.

My point exactly- Unprofesional? Probably. Out of character? Perhaps. Childish? More than a little. Gospel truth about what happened? We don't know. Bono really lives the cliched rock star lifestyle, so I'm surprised he didn't throw a TV out the window into the pool. Since it does seem so out of character, I find it entertaining, and probably a little blown out of proportion. And if it's true, well, guess he's flawed like the rest of us. I'm sure it's not the first bad decision he's ever made.
Of course I haven't read any of the actual documents, so whatever- I could be full of it. Maybe a TV did end up in the pool.

yeah i only think he's an arse in the context of Spider-Man - i think he's alright the rest of the time LOL

 

[mama cass]

I'm amazed how easily people fall for these he said she said bullshit dramas as they play out in public.

hey i said "allegedly" (more than once) didn't i?

 

[BVS]

I was talking about everyone on all sides of this issue, no one in particular.

 

[last unicorn]

I've read a lot of comments from people - not all of them U2-fans, many even U2-critics - discussing this issue in various media who are saying that it's a bit suspicious for Taymor to come out with these allegations now that the musical is obviously successful and making a lot of money. PLus it's obvious it became better and eventually a success after she was fired. While I think it's wrong to put all the blame on her and I'm sure there were mistakes made on both sides, I would be a bit careful about feeling sorry for Julie Taymor and considering her to be the innocent victim, because I think there's a hidden agenda here. Some things just don't add up. The Bono drunk story is more funny than anything else and the rest is just, for the most part, based on pure speculation. It's unfortunate that all of this is happening and I think if this goes to trial there will be no winners, only losers.

 

[Irvine511]

it's like complaining that one of the Beatles showed up high for a Sgt. Pepper's meeting.

 

[Scorpionac]

Since it does seem so out of character, I find it entertaining, and probably a little blown out of proportion. And if it's true, well, guess he's flawed like the rest of us.

I can relate. I frequently show up to work drunk, with supermodels.

 

[corianderstem]

... I think there's a hidden agenda here. Some things just don't add up.

Oh, for shit's sake!

 

[gvox]

Pretty much my response, also.

 

[Rachel D.]

B&E should never have gotten involved with this. I knew there would be at least one lawsuit when people started getting hurt and then Taymor was fired. This thing is an albatross that won't go away. I hope it doesn't affect U2 in a bad way, which is all I really care about in this situation, being a U2 fan and whatnot.

 

[mama cass]

Pretty much my response, also.

mine too

 

[mama cass]

I can relate. I frequently show up to work drunk, with supermodels.

 

[Nick66]

I've read a lot of comments from people - not all of them U2-fans, many even U2-critics - discussing this issue in various media who are saying that it's a bit suspicious for Taymor to come out with these allegations now that the musical is obviously successful and making a lot of money. PLus it's obvious it became better and eventually a success after she was fired. While I think it's wrong to put all the blame on her and I'm sure there were mistakes made on both sides, I would be a bit careful about feeling sorry for Julie Taymor and considering her to be the innocent victim, because I think there's a hidden agenda here. Some things just don't add up. The Bono drunk story is more funny than anything else and the rest is just, for the most part, based on pure speculation. It's unfortunate that all of this is happening and I think if this goes to trial there will be no winners, only losers.

I really don't know what to make of this post.

For one thing, I'm not sure what you mean by the timing of Taymor's allegations being "suspicious". Stuff like this comes out in lawsuits all the time. Stuff that's generally not discussed when everything is nice between the parties. Take the Bono showing up drunk story for example...there's nothing "suspicious" about that coming out...it's just not a story Taymor would make public while they were partners. Now it suits her purposes for it to come out. Just as it will suit the purposes of the producers for the stories about how erratic and difficult Taymor is to work with to come out...which they have and will continue to. So I'm not sure what's "suspicious" about filing a suit seeking millions of dollars, and presenting her side of the story in its best light (as the producers will theirs). The motivations are pretty clear.

As far as a "hidden agenda"...the only agenda to this is money, which is what most lawsuits are about. There's nothing hidden about wanting to get paid part of the millions and millions of dollars, pounds and euros the product of her work has made, and will make in the future. If there is a secondary agenda, it's about reputation...but that's hardly hidden. How much of that money she's entitled to is a of course a matter for the courts to decide (though the case will be settled).

And I haven't seen anyone say Taymor was "innocent"...at least on this thread. Of course she's not innocent...no one involved in this suit is likely innocent. As far as feeling "sorry" for her, I'm not sure how many people are doing that either. Taymor will be OK no matter what, as will B&E and everyone else involved.

Finally, I wouldn't exactly say the Bono story is based "speculation"...there's nothing speculative about it, it's an allegation contained in the suit. Now, it may be a "he said/she said" scenario, but it's not just speculation. There's a LOT of information out there, from both sides, contained in suit, countersuit and union complaint. Not to mention the press reports. At this point it's just a matter of whom you're inclined to believe.

 

[Rachel D.]

I don't know if this has been posted here yet, but I found it while looking for something else:

Producers of U2-scored 'Spider-Man' musical sue former director over 'hallucinogenic' plot | News | NME.COM

I can see why they wanted to change the storyline. It would have been bad if people brought their kids to see a Spiderman musical and expected it to be family-friendly and got Taymor's original sex-and-death version instead (if this story is true). The more I read about her the more I think she's a nutcase.

 

[Nick66]

I don't know if this has been posted here yet, but I found it while looking for something else:

Producers of U2-scored 'Spider-Man' musical sue former director over 'hallucinogenic' plot | News | NME.COM

I can see why they wanted to change the storyline. It would have been bad if people brought their kids to see a Spiderman musical and expected it to be family-friendly and got Taymor's original sex-and-death version instead (if this story is true). The more I read about her the more I think she's a nutcase.

As far as I can see, the producers don't have much of a case. She had complete creative control over the show. She literally wrote The Book. Her artistic vision was what they hired her for in the first place. Yeah, her vision ended up being problematic (i.e., her show sucked) and they finally sacked her. They knew where she was going with the show before they did the first rehearsal. Just because she created something they didn't like doesn't mean they can sue. Well, correction...they can sue, but it doesn't mean they have a case. And it certainly doesn't mean they'll prevail.

I've read both her suit, and their countersuit, and as far as I can see she has a lot stronger case. And I have no dog in this fight, considering I love U2's music and can't stand a lot of what Taymor has done (thought her Lion King was great, Frida was brilliant, but her Shakespeare is shit, as is that Beatles movie she did with Bono). They are filing suit because there are almost always countersuits in these type of cases. Partially for PR reasons, partially to intimidate the plaintiff, and partially to strengthen a negotiating position.

Anyway, this happens sometimes when you hire creative professionals and give them complete creative control. If you want the genius, sometimes you have to live with the madness.

 

[mama cass]

I don't know if this has been posted here yet, but I found it while looking for something else:

Producers of U2-scored 'Spider-Man' musical sue former director over 'hallucinogenic' plot | News | NME.COM

I can see why they wanted to change the storyline. It would have been bad if people brought their kids to see a Spiderman musical and expected it to be family-friendly and got Taymor's original sex-and-death version instead (if this story is true). The more I read about her the more I think she's a nutcase.

this is one of the allegations Taymor is responding to in her recent filing...

the Book was approved by both Bono and The Edge - they thought it was "great" - the Edge even described it as "dark and twisted" in a good way

also, in musicals, as far as i know, the composer and lyricist have a lot of say in the storyline - they're the core creatives with the scriptwriters - i mean, normally it's the lyrics that convey the plot - therefore Bono and Edge would have had to have been on board with the book... not to mention the "brainstorming" workshops Taymor, Berger, Bono and Edge did together, working on ideas... all well documented...

so make that 3 nutcases (4 including Berger) lol

 

[Nick66]

The Book was approved by both Bono and The Edge - they thought it was "great" - the Edge even described it as "dark and twisted" in a good way

also, in musicals, as far as i know, the composer and lyricist also have a lot of say in the storyline - i mean, normally it's the lyrics that convey the plot - therefore Bono and Edge would have had to have been on board with the book... not to mention the "brainstorming" workshops Taymor, Berger, Bono and Edge did together, working on ideas... all well documented...

Yep. If you want a family-friendly show, you don't fracking hire Bono and Edge to do the music. What, did the producers listen to their Clockwork Orange score (B&E's other theatrical stage "success") and think that was cheerful? Three minutes on Youtube checking out Alex Descends Into Hell and the producers would have saved themselves a lot of trouble and money.

Perhaps they should have rung Elton John instead.

Alex Descends/Clockwork Orange

 

[mama cass]

Yep. If you want a family-friendly show, you don't fracking hire Bono and Edge to do the music. What, did the producers listen to their Clockwork Orange score (B&E's other theatrical stage "success") and think that was cheerful? Three minutes on Youtube checking out Alex Descends Into Hell and the producers would have saved themselves a lot of trouble and money.

Perhaps they should have rung Elton John instead.

Alex Descends/Clockwork Orange

yeah but the producers didn't hire Bono and Edge either - it was Bono and Edge who rounded up the producers after the original producer(?) or main man behind it all (can't remember his name off the top of my head) suddenly died... so it was really Bono and Edge's baby - they're the ones who wanted Taymor on board too... and the producers they brought on board had ZERO Broadway experience... it was a mess from the very start... but Bono and Edge were the driving force behind the origination of the project, not the producers and not Taymor... and that seriously blows my mind

 

[Nick66]

yeah but the producers didn't hire Bono and Edge either - it was Bono and Edge who rounded up the producers after the original producer(?) or main man behind it all (can't remember his name off the top of my head) suddenly died... so it was really Bono and Edge's baby - they're the ones who wanted Taymor on board too... and the producers they brought on board had ZERO Broadway experience... it was a mess from the very start... but Bono and Edge were the driving force behind the origination of the project, not the producers and not Taymor... and that seriously blows my mind

Well exactly. The point is, everyone knew what they were getting w/Taymor, or they should have known. So it's a little bit late for the producers, or B&E in particular, to be complaining about her vision. The whole thing only came together because Taymor was involved. They just didn't like it when things started to fall apart.

 

[Rachel D.]

Yep. If you want a family-friendly show, you don't fracking hire Bono and Edge to do the music. What, did the producers listen to their Clockwork Orange score (B&E's other theatrical stage "success") and think that was cheerful? Three minutes on Youtube checking out Alex Descends Into Hell and the producers would have saved themselves a lot of trouble and money.

But this is Spiderman, not A Clockwork Orange. There's quite a difference.

 

[BVS]

Some people are one dimensional, and want their artist to be too...

 

[corianderstem]

Yep. If you want a family-friendly show, you don't fracking hire Bono and Edge to do the music. What, did the producers listen to their Clockwork Orange score (B&E's other theatrical stage "success") and think that was cheerful?

What's more likely - that U2 is known for their extensive string of radio friendly, worldwide, crowd pleasing hits? Or that the common "go to" U2 sound someone thinks of is some really obscure song they did?

I know it's a moot point because no one went knocking on their door to write the music; I just thought that was a really strange thing to say.

 

[gvox]

Guys, U2 is all bout sex, death, and suicide. ALL BOUT IT!

Michael Cohl loses.

 

[last unicorn]

What's more likely - that U2 is known for their extensive string of radio friendly, worldwide, crowd pleasing hits? Or that the common "go to" U2 sound someone thinks of is some really obscure song they did?.

Agree. Nick's comment is confusing the hell out of me. Sometimes I think some people are listening to a different U2 than others.

 

[Nick66]

Agree. Nick's comment is confusing the hell out of me. Sometimes I think some people are listening to a different U2 than others.

This is only confusing if you haven't followed to story, don't understand the criticism, internally and externally, the original score U2 wrote engendered, and the substantial changes they had to make to the score.

Moreover, the Clockwork Orange score was B&E's only work with stage music until Spiderman, unless I'm mistaken. So let's compare apples to apples, instead of comparing Spiderman to some radio hit, which is a completely different medium. Moreover, U2 made "radio friendly, worldwide, crowd pleasing hits" back when they did the CO score as well, but that had little to do with the music they made for that production.

 

[BVS]

This is only confusing if you haven't followed to story, don't understand the criticism, internally and externally, the original score U2 wrote engendered, and the substantial changes they had to make to the score.

Moreover, the Clockwork Orange score was B&E's only work with stage music until Spiderman, unless I'm mistaken. So let's compare apples to apples, instead of comparing Spiderman to some radio hit, which is a completely different medium. Moreover, U2 made "radio friendly, worldwide, crowd pleasing hits" back when they did the CO score as well, but that had little to do with the music they made for that production.

So you've heard ONE song from said show, and that's now indicative as to how B&E would approach every stage endeavor?

Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

 

[Nick66]

So you've heard ONE song from said show, and that's now indicative as to how B&E would approach every stage endeavor?

I never said that.

 

[BVS]

I never said that.

Then what exactly did you mean by:

Yep. If you want a family-friendly show, you don't fracking hire Bono and Edge to do the music. What, did the producers listen to their Clockwork Orange score (B&E's other theatrical stage "success") and think that was cheerful? Three minutes on Youtube checking out Alex Descends Into Hell and the producers would have saved themselves a lot of trouble and money.

 

[Nick66]

That just because U2 produces "radio friendly" hits, doesn't necessarily mean that's what they're going to produce for a broadway show. I never said that, based one "ONE" song that was "indicative as to how B&E would approach every stage endeavour". You made that part up.

I'm getting bored explaining this, and I think you're comments are meant to argue, not engage, so please don't be offended if I don't respond to you BVS. There's really no point in talking to you if you're not going to comment on the things I actually wrote.