Mack_Again
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Is ISIS really the Islam fundamentalism or just "everything should be fucking destroyed" -ism?
If I were NATO, the UN, interested parties, I would first work on creating a safe zone for refugees in coastal Northwestern Syria (currently controlled by the Assad regime). Work diplomatically to get a 30-50 square mile zone in this area. Use UN/NATO troops to safeguard the interior. It wouldn't border ISIS or rebel controlled areas.
From this staging point we can ship food medical supplies. Give the refugees everything they need to stay put and not risk their lives trying to get to Greece by sea.
Hopefully it will give Western Governments time to catch their collective breaths. Set up screening processes and make for a more orderly exit for those suffering.
The US already has an intense screening process. They go through a minimum of 10 government agencies. If one would take the time to turn Hannity or Rush off for 10 min and read a real article and not all of this bullshit I see vomited on Facebook they would know this.
It's propaganda, fear, and xenophobia; plain and simple.
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AQ was a bit more political in their demands. Still rooted in Islam
Is ISIS really the Islam fundamentalism or just "everything should be fucking destroyed" -ism?
I've gotten to the point where I usually just ignore you. Everybody knows your game. My post was a legitimate idea not just for the sake of the US, France, Greece, Macedonia, Serbia, Hungary, Austria, Germany but most importantly the refugees themselves. For you its "Oh look, Oregoropa, posted something, let me shit on it, without taking the time to read it and understand the context"
the problem, though, with destroying ISIS is that death inspires more recruits. the West could carpet bomb for weeks, all those assholes could be vaporized, and some kid living in a Brussels suburb sees it on TV and straps a bomb to his chest, runs into Gare de Nord, and derails a train heading to Lille.
i realize that's not helpful, and a criticism without a solution. i have no solution. i just think that there's no "wipe them out, all of them." what we're dealing with here are the children of Bin Laden, young men with no jobs and no sex and no future who grew up in the aftermath of 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq. how do we stamp that out? that which drives angry young men to extremist utopian visions of life?
it's so depressing.
The thing is, while Daesh* might be a slightly new flavor of terrorist extremism, just bombing the hell out of them and wiping them off the face of the planet is not going to address the fundamental problem, and will, in fact, guarantee the rise of the next branch. There have been interviews done with some of the Daesh fighters, and many of them are NOT actually devout Muslims with a strong fundamental understanding of their faith. They're disillusioned youth who were treated badly under US-backed Al-Maliki in Iraq, and youth who are especially vulnerable to fall under the spell of people who give them a sense of (violent, retributive) purpose and the veneer of being sanctioned by God.
We're not going to end this kind of extreme terrorism until we start doing something real about the "hearts and minds" of every day people in these middle Eastern countries. We simply can't expect a military approach to work unless it is paired with a humanitarian approach that is just as strong if not more so. It's easy as shit to bomb bad guys. It's a lot more difficult to give people hope and access to things that improve their lives in a meaningful way. But that's the only way we stand a chance of eradicating this Islamist extremism. Until that gets addressed it's just going to be whack-a-mole.
*The assholes formely known as ISIS
Sorry, my tone was a little harsh. It wasn't aimed towards you, but the right in general. The Breitbart and other bs I see being posted on FB makes my skin crawl.
That being said, I don't think a 50 square foot easy target is a viable solution.
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Ok buddy. I accept your apology
Is ISIS really the Islam fundamentalism or just "everything should be fucking destroyed" -ism?
Ouch.
Even though Al Qaeda might have seemed like the Mickey Mouse version of what ISIS is pulling off today, saying they were "still rooted in Islam" is just wrong. Political or not, nowhere in Islam does it say "hijack a plane and fly into a tower to destroy innocent lives"...
Al Qaeda seem like old news but I think no one should make the mistake to picture them as more reasonable or rational. They are/were also just a terroristic organisation who have very little to do with Islam or any other worldly religion for that matter.
but the bombing is the one biggest recruitment tool they have... no way! I respectfully disagree. These guys need to be annihilated end of story - most Muslims hate this group and it actually might help our reputation in the areaif we rid the earth of this scum.
They are deeply religious and true to their beliefs.
Then guarantee to smash the next branch and the one after that... keep whacking the mole
Some of them may be. A few of the ones from Belgium seem to have more of a criminal/nonreligious element. One attacker was a bar owner whose bar was recently shut down because of drug dealing on the premises.
St Denis raid: what we know so far
The police operation in St-Denis is ongoing, but here is what we currently know:
Heavy shooting, including automatic gunfire, and explosions have been reported in St Denis, a northern Paris suburb. St Denis is where the Stade de France, one of the targets of Friday’s attacks, is located, although the current operation is in the centre of the suburb, close to the basilica.
The targets of the raid are the mastermind of the Paris attacks, Abdel-Hamid Abu Oud; as well as Salah Abdeslam and another suspect thought to be a ninth attacker.
Two or three men are reported to have barricaded themselves in an apartment, exchanging gunfire with officers. It is not confirmed that these men are the suspects named above.
Shooting began at 4.30am local time (0330 GMT) and has continued in bursts in the hours since.
At least one police officer has been injured in the operation.
Roads have been closed off and the police operation is ongoing, with large numbers of police officers and police vehicles in the area. Military reinforcements have also arrived.
Residents have been told to stay in their homes and away from windows. Some have been moved to a temporary shelter in the town hall. Transport to St-Denis has been suspended and schools will not open on Wednesday.
Uh... how about responding to points 1, 2, 4 and 5 instead of ignoring them completely and hoping that bombing the shit out of them fixes it?
Bombing inevitably creates collateral damage. Innocent people die, leaving their loved ones to stew in the knowledge that western powers, no matter how noble their stated goals and no matter how much these innocent people disliked Daesh, killed their daughter/son/brother/sister/wife/husband/etc. If we just drop some bombs and then get the hell out of dodge, we create a vacuum for the next power-hungry assholes to come in and exploit the victims of our inevitable collateral damage.
Which is why I said in my original comment that if there is a military option their needs to be an immediate and vigorous humanitarian follow up, or we just perpetuate the whack-a-mole scenario we've found ourselves in.
UHHHH <---see what I did there?
I never said to not do the humanitarian part after the bombing but to allow this group to keep on doing this with impunity is not right. To me it sounds like your more worried about the collateral damage/innocents of the da'esh region than the innocents that went out on a Friday night for dinner, concert maybe a soccer match. These animals are are atrgeting the very way of life that we hold most dear.... it's been 25 years of trying to understand them and prop them up but at some point we have to draw a line and I think it's right here right now. (doing that UHHH thing really didn't make me feel any better).
To me it sounds like your more worried about the collateral damage/innocents of the da'esh region than the innocents that went out on a Friday night for dinner, concert maybe a soccer match.
Bombing inevitably creates collateral damage. Innocent people die, leaving their loved ones to stew in the knowledge that western powers, no matter how noble their stated goals and no matter how much these innocent people disliked Daesh, killed their daughter/son/brother/sister/wife/husband/etc. If we just drop some bombs and then get the hell out of dodge, we create a vacuum for the next power-hungry assholes to come in and exploit the victims of our inevitable collateral damage.
I'm not sure how to upload this video but John Oliver nails it right on the head.
No, we understand that. You are getting your point across. Your point just seems extremely reactionary and not all that well thought out.I think you and BVS are correct-I don't think I'm getting my point across right.... it's my belief that we have been over-cautious and extremely cerebral about our approach to this but in my mind it hasn't worked, they are still bombing and taking out innocent lives. The invasion of Iraq was a massive blunder and I feel we kinda bombed first without thinking of any exit strategies or realized what a huge vacuum and destabilizing force the invasion would cause. With that said, ISIS is a bit different than AQ in the way they pull these things off with seeming impunity. While agreeing with you with the trying better to understand the root-cause of all of this fundamentalism these guys should be punished and not with carpet bombing but with strategic targets and possibly hitting them monetarily and sanctions and the like.