Photographer's Union Part Deux

[BoMac]

I thought these were fun and cute.

Creative Dad Takes Crazy Photos Of Daughters | Bored Panda

 

[Vincent Vega]

I get frustrated with photography because I never seem to be able to get the result I want. My best photos are landscapes but I want to be able to shoot animals in an attractive and nice manner. Getting the angle right is a big problem for me. Anyone have any pointers?

I also don't think the colors are rich or real enough to bring the photos to life. That's what I tend to be most picky about. Though I shoot Canon and I've heard that Nikons are better with color.
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Try getting on their eye-level. When you photograph top down, it usually looks less complimenting on the pet/animal.

For the colours, if possible shoot in raw, then later you can correct the white balance and add contrast, change light and shadows etc. Both Canon and Nikon have presets that are often very "neutral", but you can change these in the settings of most cameras.
It's a myth that a camera takes a great shot just by itself. You will hardly find a picture that didn't undergo post-processing.

 

[Jive Turkey]

but I need to wait until she gets all the info on how/when/if they can be shared. She has the rights for portfolio purposes but I don't know about sharing beyond that yet.

It's best to err on the side of caution. Most of the time with things like this, you're not allowed to show anything until after the film or tv show is either released or completes its run. They're usually chock full of confidentiality agreements. Depending on the level of the film, there's usually a contract to be signed before hand that lays everything out. Did your daughter get any paperwork before the job started?

 

[bonocomet]

It's best to err on the side of caution. Most of the time with things like this, you're not allowed to show anything until after the film or tv show is either released or completes its run. They're usually chock full of confidentiality agreements. Depending on the level of the film, there's usually a contract to be signed before hand that lays everything out. Did your daughter get any paperwork before the job started?

Thanks. Yes she's not doing anything with the photos until she knows for sure. It's an AFI short film, so it may or may not have the same set of legalities as other films. There was only one paper to sign when she started and that one only mentioned retaining portfolio rights so it may be that's all she can do, but she will hopefully get more info soon. Even if that's all she can do, she will be happy for that. It was the experience here that she was after, and that was priceless for her.

(We also just learned that AFI films are eligible for Oscar nomination, so that's pretty cool!)

 

[ntalwar]

I get frustrated with photography because I never seem to be able to get the result I want. My best photos are landscapes but I want to be able to shoot animals in an attractive and nice manner. Getting the angle right is a big problem for me. Anyone have any pointers?

Try shooting in better light. Direct sunlight or overcast skies will produce flat lighting.

 

[Liesje]

Erica my number one tip for shooting dogs is get down on their level. I never shoot dogs unless I'm kneeling/sitting on the ground or on my belly.

With our kind of dogs I also avoid direct noon light. I actually prefer overcast, especially when shooting dog shows and Schutzhund trials. It's REALLY annoying when you get to a show and the judge continuously has the dogs setting up with the sun and a bunch of cars and people behind them. The two photos below I shot at the same show, one we setup for a special request, the other was where the judge was setting up the dogs.

 

[Jive Turkey]

If you must shoot on a sunny day, try moving the subject to the open shade; maybe under a tree or gazebo. Suddenly your flat lighting becomes beautifully contouring. I'd argue that it's one of the nicest qualities of light you can use.
That said, there's nothing to say you can't take great photos in the noon sunlight, it just takes a little more work

 

[Liesje]

Can't move 'em. Where the judges lines up, they line up. But, normally we take specials (special requests) starting weeks before the show so if people are worried about their photos then we have them setup their dogs during the lunch break and we can do it wherever and in whatever direction we please. The top photo above shows the puppy where/how his owner/handler set him up for a special request and the bottom photo shows where he was told to setup during the show (he won his class), and the judge walking into my shot. Even with multiple people shooting at once it's difficult, especially with the puppy classes because they often will NOT stack or hold still for longer than a milisecond and when you are the ring photographer you are supposed to provide at least one stacked and one gaiting shot of every single dog (more for those who request specials). At our last show, some of the dogs were so wired and/or not ring trained that they never even gaited and then we have to decided whether to offer "bad" photos or have upset owners that think we skipped their dog.

These are much better, overcast day with no crap/people directly behind the ring

In general though, people are looking for a flattering photo of the dog, not so much for the best photo, if that makes sense? You have to know way more about conformation than you do about photography (which is definitely the case for me, and we're selling more photos than those who are better photographers with better equipment). I bought a photo disc when my own dog was in a show and while the quality of the photos was great, there was not a single shot worth keeping because the woman knew nothing about how the dogs move and what the judge is looking for in the ring. All of the photos were awkward and not flattering for the dog even though they were correct as far as lighting, angle, color, etc.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Can't move 'em.

Oh, that was mostly for ladyfreckles
I like your dog photos though. It's a more expository form of photography. My Dad shoots in a similar fashion, but with Airplanes instead of dogs. I think that comes when the interest is lies more in the subjects than in photography in general (which maybe somewhat paradoxically is where the great portrait photographers are coming from too). It's more specified. You've got a good eye for composition though and have a good handle on exposure

 

[ladyfreckles]

Try getting on their eye-level. When you photograph top down, it usually looks less complimenting on the pet/animal.

For the colours, if possible shoot in raw, then later you can correct the white balance and add contrast, change light and shadows etc. Both Canon and Nikon have presets that are often very "neutral", but you can change these in the settings of most cameras.
It's a myth that a camera takes a great shot just by itself. You will hardly find a picture that didn't undergo post-processing.

Some of my favorite pictures that I've taken were done on cheap point and shoot cameras. Some of my worst have been on this expensive Canon 7D. I always shoot in RAW, though I try to keep the post-processing minimal. Maybe I should spend a little more time on it to help with the colors? My biggest "equipment" hurdle has been lenses and a lack of an external flash. I currently own 50mm f/1.4L, a 70-200mm f/4L and a 17-40mm f/4L. The 50mm is excellent, but I often desire a focal length in between 50 and 70. I almost wish I had a kit lens, because even though it's cheap and not as sharp/fast as some of the other lenses are it would help me to practice at that range without constantly swapping lenses.

Eye level tip is great. I followed that when taking these and while they're not perfect I like them a lot more:

Try shooting in better light. Direct sunlight or overcast skies will produce flat lighting.

I actually like shooting in overcast skies more than sunlight because the sun can do wonky things with shadows and uneven lighting. But in the house I don't have an external flash yet to bounce off the ceiling--something that would help me tremendously with lighting. I had wanted to wait an save up for the best one for my camera but I'm thinking of just grabbing the cheapest one for now and practicing with it.

Erica my number one tip for shooting dogs is get down on their level. I never shoot dogs unless I'm kneeling/sitting on the ground or on my belly.

Someone else gave this tip as well and now that you're saying it it seems like a "duhhh" moment. I noticed a huge improvement in my pictures when I was kneeling on the ground or on my belly than when I stand there and try to bend over or do wonky things. Thanks.

Can't move 'em. Where the judges lines up, they line up. But, normally we take specials (special requests) starting weeks before the show so if people are worried about their photos then we have them setup their dogs during the lunch break and we can do it wherever and in whatever direction we please. The top photo above shows the puppy where/how his owner/handler set him up for a special request and the bottom photo shows where he was told to setup during the show (he won his class), and the judge walking into my shot.

Wow, that's a massive difference.

In general though, people are looking for a flattering photo of the dog, not so much for the best photo, if that makes sense? You have to know way more about conformation than you do about photography (which is definitely the case for me, and we're selling more photos than those who are better photographers with better equipment). I bought a photo disc when my own dog was in a show and while the quality of the photos was great, there was not a single shot worth keeping because the woman knew nothing about how the dogs move and what the judge is looking for in the ring. All of the photos were awkward and not flattering for the dog even though they were correct as far as lighting, angle, color, etc.

It makes perfect sense. I'm still learning a lot about conformation, which is something I probably need to start going to shows to learn more about. I've been trying to keep an eye on the shows on tv and watch youtube videos of conformation shows to see what the standard is. I'm not familiar with a lot of the terms or how to tell the difference between them and I think as I learn more my photos of my dog and other dogs will be a lot better.

I know it's similar with people. Part of it is knowledge of posing and part of it is just having good instinct. My biggest hurdle with photographing Viking is his inability to sit still or hold a position. Thankfully he no longer tries to climb on me and sniff the camera and has learned that camera time is not "kiss mom" time.

Do you know of any good resources I could check out to learn more about this stuff?

 

[Liesje]

What do you guys think of these? They are almost straight off the camera, just cleaned up a few spots (slobber, eye goobers, gants, the usual!) and sharpened a tad b/c I like to see the detail in the coat. I was experimenting with putting Nikon in the shade but trying to get his face or at least part of it in the light. The neighbor's house is not the greatest background but I didn't want them to look too posed.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Nice Liesje. The background in the 3rd shot might be a little busy, but the other two are great

(and if you're on a mac, the copyright shortcut is option g )

 

[ladyfreckles]

What photo editing software do you use, out of curiosity?

Nice shots. 2nd one is my favorite.

 

[Liesje]

No Macs here, can't stand 'em (well, I use both/everything at work).

Erica I used PhotoShop and FireWorks for those since I wanted some nicer, for keeps photos but usually just do basic editing in Picasa for all the dog candids I'm constantly taking. I don't really know how to use PS, but I often use a set of "actions" I got somewhere else and then tweak to my liking. I don't know anyone who uses FireWorks but that's what I was trained to use and support for work years ago so that's what I use to fix stuff like removing gnats, boogers, and fixing Nikon's ears. For those photos I was lying in the grass and liked how that sort of blurred the bottom of the photo. Most times I have to actually DE-saturate photos of Nikon because he is so dark/red.

 

[ladyfreckles]

I learned Photoshop in school and that's what I use now. Pat has a copy of Fireworks though he rarely uses it, I should play around with it some more. I know Fireworks is a lot better/more convenient for web stuff which is something I want to get involved in after I finish memorizing new stuff with CSS3.

Anyway. Here are some recent photos I took.

This one was part of several practice shots I did with various items. I like the way it turned out the most. I was playing with the new flash I got and bouncing it off of different directions to get different effects.

One of our wall candles that we use to decorate the downstairs:

New shoes (got on sale):

I'm still getting the hang of it, but I think my indoor pictures have improved a lot with flash alone. Lighting means everything. Now to work on honing the skills to make each image a worth while image.

 

[Liesje]

I like your shoes! They are a lot like mine.

I had to learn FW originally because where I work all the webmasters use DreamWeaver and FW plays nice w/ Dreamweaver for HTML rollovers and stuff like that, but now with CSS (and the new product, dotCMS, that we are switching too) it's become obsolete. Most if not all of the photo editing stuff FW does you can do in PhotoShop and more.

 

[Jive Turkey]

No Macs here, can't stand 'em (well, I use both/everything at work).

Macs are pretty much standard in the industry. I don't know one person that uses a PC

 

[ladyfreckles]

Macs are pretty much standard in the industry. I don't know one person that uses a PC

There's no reason for them to be. They're better looking, but their screens are not the best quality. Photoshop is the same regardless of which operating system you use it on. Yes, macs are extremely popular among photographers, but they are not the standard. I know plenty of people that make a decent living (in some cases, way more than 'decent') in photography that use Windows exclusively.

I can't stand editing photographs on a Mac, and I own one.

 

[Jive Turkey]

but they are not the standard.

Yes they are. It's not even debatable. And nobody retouches on a mac screen

 

[ladyfreckles]

Yes they are. It's not even debatable. And nobody retouches on a mac screen

However the OS is still no better for retouching. While some photography school programs will require the purchase of a Mac, plenty of others do not. I also don't see the consumer demanding that their photos are edited on a macintosh. The only thing the customer cares about is the quality of the work. Whether or not somebody uses a mac to retouch and manage their photos is irrelevant because it's completely up to personal taste. For me, it's easier to edit on a Windows machine. Managing my files on Windows is a lot less of a pain in the butt than it is on any Unix operating system (and that's not because I'm unfamiliar with it--I work with *nix in the server world and have to have it memorized).

Back in the 90s (maybe early 2000s), yeah macs were a standard, but they aren't anymore.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Back in the 90s (maybe early 2000s), yeah macs were a standard, but they aren't anymore.

They are the standard. It's not an opinion. They are absolutely the standard. It has nothing to do with what the 'consumer' is requesting their photos to be edited on. I've been working in the commercial photography industry for several years. not one single person I have ever met in the industry uses a PC. Not one. It is a fact that everyone uses a Mac

 

[ladyfreckles]

They are the standard. It's not an opinion. They are absolutely the standard. It has nothing to do with what the 'consumer' is requesting their photos to be edited on. I've worked in the commercial photography industry for several years. not one single person I have ever met in the industry uses a PC. Not one.

Because everyone you know in the industry prefers to use a mac it's the industry standard? An industry standard is something that is required by the industry itself. Macs are not required (and that is not an opinion, I know many professional photographers that don't use them) to do quality and profitable photography. I don't want this to turn into a debate because nobody will actually win and we'll just end up disagreeing with each other after boring everyone with our posts. I didn't see how it was relavent in the first place to her post. So if that is what you believe, so be it.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Because everyone you know in the industry prefers to use a mac it's the industry standard? An industry standard is something that is required by the industry itself. Macs are not required (and that is not an opinion, I know many professional photographers that don't use them) to do quality and profitable photography.

They are the standard. Argue all you like. You simply wouldn't know any different. And I don't consider someone who takes photos of people's babies and edits them in their basement to be part of the industry. I'm talking about the commercial photo industry. Think what you like, but I know what I'm talking about

 

[Jive Turkey]

An industry standard is something that is required by the industry itself.

And you're wrong here too

 

[ladyfreckles]

They are the standard. Argue all you like. You simply wouldn't know any different. And I don't consider someone who takes photos of people's babies and edits them in their basement to be part of the industry. I'm talking about the commercial photo industry. Think what you like, but I know what I'm talking about

Yes, I know exactly what you were talking about. The professional photographers I know have published work in the high fashion industry (we're talking Vogue magazine). New York Fashion Week, as well. One of my family members has been doing professional sports photography for over twenty years and covered the last shuttle launch. Is that professional enough for you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_standard
http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/industry-standard.html
Industry standard.

"Generally accepted requirements followed by the members of an industry."

 

[Jive Turkey]

You don't know what you're talking about. I'm not impressed by someone you know shooting for vogue. I've worked on those shoots. There is no way in hell they were running a PC on that shoot. Not a chance. And If they're shooting for vogue, they probably aren't even using their own rig during the shoot (and they sure as hell wouldn't be doing their own post production). And sports and event coverage? Like for a newspaper? wow

 

[Jive Turkey]

Technical standard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What is industry standard? definition and meaning
Industry standard.

"Generally accepted requirements followed by the members of an industry."

A technical standard is an established norm or requirement about technical systems.

no shit

 

[ladyfreckles]

You don't know what you're talking about. I'm not impressed by someone you know shooting for vogue. I've worked on those shoots. There is no way in hell they were running a PC on that shoot. Not a chance. And If they're shooting for vogue, they probably aren't even using their own rig during the shoot (and they sure as hell wouldn't be doing their own post production). And sports and event coverage? Like for a newspaper? wow

This discussion is has ceased to be productive and I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you.

 

[Jive Turkey]

This discussion is has ceased to be productive

As tends to happen when someone who doesn't know what they're talking about refuses to listen to someone who does

 

[ladyfreckles]

So has anyone else taken pictures recently that they want to share?