namkcuR said:
Is that first part true or are you being sarcastic?
Sleep Over Jack said:Maybe Bono realised he was a bit too pompous and preachy in the 80s.
Originally posted by miss becky
I was gonna stay out of this, until I read this. Axver, just because you don't like Achtung Baby doesn't mean that those of us who do like it "blindly praise" it. Give us some credit, please. We know what we like, and we have reasons for it, just as you have reasons for liking Lovetown era best.
Please do not make such sweeping generalizations about people here.
We now return to our regularly scheduled argument.
Axver said:
I am well aware of that, but I am sure you also see people who blindly praise Achtung. People here blindly praise just about anything U2 does, and AB receives more than its fair share of blind praise. There are plenty of people who think it hasn't got a single flaw. Maybe their copies are missing EBTTRT and TTTYAATW ...
Axver said:Am I the only person who thinks the October cover is awesome? Come on, THE 'FRO!
miss becky said:
Call me a blind worshipper then.
Axver said:Am I the only person who thinks the October cover is awesome? Come on, THE 'FRO!
Axver said:
You don't think there's even one weak line on the album?
namkcuR said:
Let me rephrase then
Music, WITHIN any given genre, is completely subjective.
AKA, yes, it is a fact that classical music is better and more complex than pop music. That is not subjective. But talking about which classical composers you prefer IS subjective. Similarly, talking about which pop/rock artists your prefer is completely subjective, and talking about which records within a given artist's catalog is also completely subjective.
GibsonGirl said:
While I agree with you that the talent and impact that Bach had on music in general is leaps and bounds ahead that of Britney Spears, it's nothing more than an opinion. To people who actually do like Britney Spears, suggesting something like that would probably seem just as ludicrous to them as the opposite would be to us. And they're welcome to have that opinion, however flawed it may seem, because that's all it is, an opinion. While we may disagree with it, it doesn't make us any more right than they are and it certainly shouldn't give us the right to belittle them.
financeguy said:
Eh, sorry but no.
Axver said:Am I the only person who thinks the October cover is awesome? Come on, THE 'FRO!
Sleep Over Jack said:I think Bono ranting onstage about prostitutes and stuff makes him sound like some old grandpa...thats one thing I liked about the AB era, they loosened up and had some fun with what they were doing, rather than getting all uptight and judgemental. I think they realised themselves it was time to change.
Sleep Over Jack said:Yeah it was a facade to an extent, but I still feel they weren't as "sincere" as they once were, and on the whole they weren't shoving their causes in people's faces as much I would have said.
And thanks for the condescending insults you pretentious twerp.
Miggy D said:Anyone who thinks the bands' Zoo personalities were anything else but facades...
doesn't know jack shit about U2.
Sorry.
They adopted these personas because they knew people were tired of their 'holier than thou' 80s stances. But come on - they still showed Sarejvo video links in the middle of their concerts, they still went and protested nuclear waste in Ireland, they still donated the proceeds from the One single to AIDS research. In 'U2 At The End of the World' Larry talks about how the Sarejvo linkups were going to destroy over 2 years of image re-creation. But U2 have ALWAYS been 80s U2. 80s U2 is who they actually are. 90s U2 (at least visually, such as clothes, design, staging) is merely what they pretended to be.
It. Was. All. A. Smoke. Screen.
I know the casual fans bought their new 'image.'
But people on this forum?
-Miggy D
financeguy said:Sorry but no. Music is not completely subjective. There is an element of subjectivity, yes.
For example Bach is better than Britney Spears and anyone who would attempt to argue otherwise is just plain wrong.
lazarus said:Sorry, back late to the discussion here, but I just want to counter Axver's statement that Achtung was insincere.
You can criticize the tour all you want for being pastiche and over the top. That's fine. But please don't confuse the album with the tour. The only song on the album that has connection to the tour is Zoo Station, and it's really the narrator trying to get his bearing in the modern world/unified Berlin/whatever. The rest of the album deals with broken down relationships and the difficulty people have relating to one another. That's pretty fucking sincere in my book.
And Acrobat (which you've acknowledged as the most indispensable track) is a meditation on Bono's role as an artist, a theme that would continue right into the beginning of Zooropa and on through songs like MOFO & Gone.
While Bono's marriage didn't hit the rocks like The Edge's, I see the lyrics on Achtung coming from a more deep and personal place than ANYTHING on the previous albums. As they put it back then, it was perhaps their darkest, most serious record. So don't infer insincerity from the album cover or from the tour, because it's anything but.
laz
namkcuR wrote:
I almost see where you're coming from, but I can't justify any of those 'anyone who _______ is a(an) ___________' statements. I know people who think the Beatles suck. Do I disagree with them with every fiber of my being? Yes. Are they idiots? No...well, not all of them. One guy is a very intelligent guy, albiet a jackass...but the point is, you can't just call someone an idiot because they don't share your opinion on music, or anything else for that matter, be it movies, sports, politics, etc etc.
Axver said:Am I the only person who thinks the October cover is awesome? Come on, THE 'FRO!
Axver said:Frodam, as I've taken to calling October-era Adam, simply had the coolest 'do of any U2 member, with the possible exception of Bono's spectacular mullet (I say he's the only person who ever suited a mullet). I have the same golden curls as Adam, so when they come to Australia, I'm going to let my hair 'fro out, get a horrifically bright green sweater like the one Adam wears on the Stories For Boys performance on the 1980-01-15 Late Late Show, make a 'bass' out of cardboard, and go to a show as Frodam.
</off-topic>