NFL 2016 Thread

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
Hewson said:
Or in a world where the only option to keep him is franchising him and paying him 24Mil to hold a clipboard cause Brady is defying odds and still playing at an MVP level at age 40.
And that makes no sense in the salary cap NFL.

Clearly Belichick wanted to keep Garoppolo for the future, just ran out of time on his rookie deal and Brady didn't lose it in the meantime.
Click to expand...

Cleveland offered first round picks for AJ McCarron. You're telling me all they could get for Garoppolo was one 2nd rounder?

Crazy.

As crazy as choosing the 40 year old over the guy in his mid 20s if you believe they're close.
 
we agree that they are both without a doubt the greatest ever at their respective roles. but i definitely don't agree that if you had put, say, aaron rodgers on the patriots from 2001-now that they would have won 5 superb owls with a probable sixth on the way. it can hardly be a coincidence that belichick was an average-at-best head coach before brady started playing.

yes it's absurd that BB has been so consistent but to consider the coach to be more important than the guy who's actually reading the defense and throwing the ball (who also happens to be the best ever at reading the defense and throwing the ball) is crazy to me.
 
DaveC said:
we agree that they are both without a doubt the greatest ever at their respective roles. but i definitely don't agree that if you had put, say, aaron rodgers on the patriots from 2001-now that they would have won 5 superb owls with a probable sixth on the way. it can hardly be a coincidence that belichick was an average-at-best coach before brady started playing.

yes it's absurd that BB has been so consistent but to consider the coach to be more important than the guy who's actually reading the defense and throwing the ball (who also happens to be the best ever at reading the defense and throwing the ball) is crazy to me.
Click to expand...
Average at best?

He was the most sought after defensive coordinator in football to the point where two teams fought over him and the pats had to give up a first round draft pick to hire him, had won two Super Bowls already as an assistant, put the Cleveland fucking Browns in the playoffs and had them as a popular super bowl pick before Modell announced he was moving the team and the season fell apart. The Cleveland. Browns. He left the Browns to be the associate head coach and defensive coordinator of the Pats, and they made the Super Bowl immediately. Then almost did the same thing with the Jets, who went from one win to 9 and then to 12 and a conference championship game appearance.

But yea... He was a relative nobody before Brady.
 
Last edited:
Headache in a Suitcase said:
Cleveland offered first round picks for AJ McCarron. You're telling me all they could get for Garoppolo was one 2nd rounder?

Crazy.

As crazy as choosing the 40 year old over the guy in his mid 20s if you believe they're close.
Click to expand...



You have to remember a couple things here:

1. By trading Garoppolo to the 49ers, they were able to get back a serviceable backup who already knows the system in Hoyer. Not exactly easy to get in the middle of the season.

2. By going to the 49ers, the amount of times they will have to face him directly is tremendously limited.
 
phanan said:
You have to remember a couple things here:

1. By trading Garoppolo to the 49ers, they were able to get back a serviceable backup who already knows the system in Hoyer. Not exactly easy to get in the middle of the season.

2. By going to the 49ers, the amount of times they will have to face him directly is tremendously limited.
Click to expand...

I get both of those things.

But they didn't even attempt to shop him around when they clearly could have gotten more than just a 2. This doesn't make any sense. It's not as if San Francisco is the only team in the NFC who would have traded for him.

They also could have traded him in the off-season for a bigger haul that could help them this season, and then keep Brisset.
 
Definitely agree about the offseason. They should have traded him then.

But once they didn’t, they lost a ton of leverage. They may have gotten more from Cleveland, but I doubt they wanted him in the AFC.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
Average at best?

He was the most sought after defensive coordinator in football to the point where two teams fought over him and the pats had to give up a first round draft pick to hire him, had won two Super Bowls already as an assistant, put the Cleveland fucking Browns in the playoffs and had them as a popular super bowl pick before Modell announced he was moving the team and the season fell apart. The Cleveland. Browns. He left the Browns to be the associate head coach and defensive coordinator of the Pats, and they made the Super Bowl immediately. Then almost did the same thing with the Jets, who went from one win to 9 and then to 12 and a conference championship game appearance.

But yea... He was a relative nobody before Brady.
Click to expand...

you'll note where i specifically said *head* coach. and yes, he had one winning season out of five with the browns. wowee.

we're clearly going to disagree on this topic but i'll leave it with mentioning that in hockey the head coach is a much more critical role to the team than in football, but even if the penguins brought scotty bowman out of retirement (or whoever you want to choose as the goat coach) and they subsequently won every game for the rest of the season on their way to winning the cup nobody in their right mind would ever say that he was more valuable than sidney crosby.

unless you're talking about something like college sports or junior hockey where the majority of the roster changes every season i think it's silly to consider a coach to be more important to a team than the athletes who have to successfully execute the plays.
 
This is a chicken and egg argument with no right answer. Stick Tim Couch on the Patriots instead of Brady and they don't have a dynasty. Stick Brady on the Browns and he probably never comes near a ring. As that article makes clear, Belichick did more than just coach, he knew when to say no and established a winning culture with a signing and trading process that kept egos in check. It was the Patriot Way.

Now, in 2017, it's become increasingly apparent that this assembly line process does not apply to their biggest star, and people are reading dysfunction into it. I don't have the answers to this, but I can't see any scenario in which Belichick was pleased with the dual Jimmy G and Brissett trades. These are sentimental transactions that sink lesser franchises when they let history run the show.

And while I absolutely cannot say who was more responsible for the Patriots' success, because there is no right answer to that question, if I were starting a new franchise in 2000 and could only have one of them, I would take Belichick. Legendary players get you a decade, but a great franchise model lasts for many decades. Give me the Steelers over the Colts any day.
 
Last edited:
Headache in a Suitcase said:
Cleveland offered first round picks for AJ McCarron. You're telling me all they could get for Garoppolo was one 2nd rounder?

Crazy.

As crazy as choosing the 40 year old over the guy in his mid 20s if you believe they're close.
Click to expand...

No. Cleveland deal for McCarron was a 2nd and a 3rd.

And clearly the Pats could have and should have gotten a better return for the galloping chicken, should have dealt him in the offseason and could have gotten a first rounder plus something more, but they still thought they had a shot to sign him to a sort of bridge deal and also wanted to buy the extra time to see if Brady's play started to slip, and have JimmyGQ as insurance for an injury.

When it became clear that there was no bridge deal happening, and Brady was still Brady, they had 2 options, deal him at the trade deadline or franchise him and deal him in the offseason. Problem with the latter is that 24Mil counts on the cap until you execute a trade and hamstrings your offseason FA acquisitions until that point.

So while I think they definitely could have handled dealing him better and got more in return, I understand why the timing went the way it did,
 
Last edited:
They never should have traded Jimmy G in the first place. When your star QB is 30, you can keep Brian Hoyer as your backup. When he's 40 and an injury waiting to happen, you don't strip your team of assets at the position. They had already traded Brissett.

The transitions from Montana to Young and Favre to Rodgers were legendary and the Patriots could have had that. Now, they need to return to the drawing board.
 
LemonMelon said:
The transitions from Montana to Young and Favre to Rodgers were legendary and the Patriots could have had that. Now, they need to return to the drawing board.
Click to expand...

And Belichick can embrace the challenge of finding that next guy.

We don't know just how good Jimmy G will be, but certainly early returns are very positive, but odds he is the next Young or Wroggers are still long.
 
LemonMelon said:
They never should have traded Jimmy G in the first place. When your star QB is 30, you can keep Brian Hoyer as your backup. When he's 40 and an injury waiting to happen, you don't strip your team of assets at the position. They had already traded Brissett.

The transitions from Montana to Young and Favre to Rodgers were legendary and the Patriots could have had that. Now, they need to return to the drawing board.
Click to expand...
This.

Yea, it sounds kinda crazy to say that they should have traded Brady.

But... they should have traded Brady.

It's the right play for the long term future of the franchise. It's also probably an impossible thing to do mid season, so they should have held on to Jimmy and dumped Brady in the off season.

It's crazy talk to think Brady's going to continue to play at an MVP level for another 3-4 years.

Not to mention hey, he's 6 TDs to 5 INTs in the last 5 games of the season after the torrid start.
 
I don't necessarily disagree with what's being said, but at the same time, Brady is in the middle of another possible MVP year, so the decline hasn't happened yet. This last month has been mediocre, but despite what he says, Brady is playing with an injured Achilles, and at least one of his picks was the fault of a new player who just joined (Britt), so there's additional context to be added.

Also remember that this is considered a strong quarterback class coming out, and the Patriots will most likely use their first round pick on one, since they now have two second rounders, so let's not make this out to be some sort of major error just yet. If Brady falls apart next year and a bonafide replacement isn't waiting in the wings, then sure, it will be fair to judge letting Jimmy G. go as a major blunder, but until that happens, and given their history, I'm willing to give the Patriots the benefit of the doubt for now.
 
Jimmy Garoppolo is 26 years old with an entire career to improve on those numbers. Brady will turn 41 before the beginning of the 2018 season and we're able to compare his recent stats to that of an inexperienced young starter.

Sure, hold onto him for another 3 years.
 
Ha, ok. I totally misread what you were implying there. I thought you were indicating that you disrespected him now, based off this article. I see where you are coming from now.

This is what I get when zooming through posts too quickly while at work.
 
This was fascinating to watch as a third party, understanding the intent of both LN7 and Phana's posts, and seeing the both of you not understand each other for so long :lol:
 
This guy though

unnamed-4534-850x478.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

DaveC
2024 NFL Playoff Pick 'Em
2
Replies
41
Views
2K
DaveC
DaveC
DaveC
2023 NFL Playoff Pick Em - Demolish the Dual Dynasty
2
Replies
42
Views
2K
Headache in a Suitcase
Headache in a Suitcase
N
NBA 2023-24 Thread
12 13 14
Replies
412
Views
11K
DaveC
DaveC
cobl04
Major League Cricket 2023 Thread I
Replies
12
Views
1K
cobl04
cobl04
DaveC
2022 NFL Playoff Pick'em - 14 Integers to Glory
2 3
Replies
87
Views
4K
Hewson
Hewson

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom