Mp3 vs Tapers Question Debate!! Your opinion desired!

[camiloj]

OK, I recently got the LA3 show on mp3 from U2BloodRedSky.com mirror.

I then posted it on my site at http://www.u2la.com and posted to the U2-LA Yahoo Group that the show was up on mp3 free for the taking.

I got the following email from someone, and I want to know what you think. It seems bizarre to me!

-------------------------------------------
Begin

I hate to be a bummer but as far as I know the only recording
circulating of LA3 is NOT GIVEN's version and he does not allow the
Circulation of his shows in MP3 format.
It is my experience that most tapers do not want their shows encoded
to MP3 therefore you should seek the permission of the taper b4 you
do something like this.
Not's Email is notgiven@yahoo.com, he is a good guy and if you
ask he will verify how he feels. I am not 100% sure but i am pretty
sure he would not want this.

If you do not know who's recording that you encoded then you should
assume it is Not's because he and I have worked alot in the last
couple weeks to get B&P's and free copies out so that EVERYONE could
hear High Quality recordings of this show! and the other 2 shows he
recorded also(LA2/Vegas)

A better show to host like this would be EXit's gig from 10/24 or the
recording we will be doing of Exit's gig 12/15, in fact I will look
into getting the Exit gig up on this site tommorrow, I was unaware
there was a site like this.

Annonymous

EOM
-----------------------------------------

This really offended me!!! Am I nuts to be irked by it?? He is telling me what shows to post!!!!

Why do tapers not like their shows made into mp3s and what responsibility do I have to an alleged taper when re-posting mp3s already offered on FTP sites??

I think they are being elitist and selfish. Am I wrong?

------------------
Camilo Arenivar

Email: U2LA2000@hotmail.com

AOL Instant Message: nohocamilo

Yahoo Messenger: u2la2000

http://www.U2LA.com

 

[sulawesigirl4]

I'm not a taper, so I don't know all the ins and outs of that. But I do think that if the guy who made the recording hasn't contacted you, then you shouldn't worry about it. I'd be curious to see what Blue Room has to say about this, since he seems to be tuned into that world.

-sula

 

[camiloj]

Oh I just found out this had been debated heatedly in the Mp3 section when I wasnt checkin out the Forum as much so I dont want to make a big deal out if it again and open any old wounds....

 

[Salome]

I think it's funny
technically we're already talking about illegal material anyway

------------------
Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

 

[Johnny Swallow]

I'm on both sides.

I'm totally not part of the elite circle, I've always been fascinated by how one gets in anyway. I feel that if one goes to the trouble, expense and gains the skill to make bootlegs of such high quality, then more power to you. I would want to have the final say of who would get a copy just as they do. They don't sell it for profit, they just have musical capital that can be used to attain more rare music. SOunds like a winner to me.

And on the side of the common bootleg fan, I like nothing more than to get a hold of some great show by someone kind enough to share it. It makes me proud to be a fan of a great group that has some great fans.

I see both sides, and I'm not elite by tapers' standards, but I still think there're enough great bootlegs going around that the general fan shouldn't get so pissed at the idea that a taper wants to have a show all to himself. People are selfish, so am I.

[This message has been edited by Johnny Swallow (edited 12-13-2001).]

 

[TheU2]

Originally posted by Salome:
I think it's funny
technically we're already talking about illegal material anyway

Get your hands off of my stolen property!!

The band has unofficially blessed the right for us to tape the show, however, ownerhsip of the recording is subject only to the physical tape and not what is recorded. That being said, I wouldn't worry about it. However, there might be cultural norms that have evolved in this sub circle of life, but those norms wouldn't stand a chance in the courtroom. So, don't worry about it.

Further legal inquiries will be re-directed to MT.

CK on the MT

 

[sulawesigirl4]

Originally posted by Salome:
I think it's funny
technically we're already talking about illegal material anyway

Slightly off the topic, but that reminded me of a quote from the best movie of all time...The Princess Bride.

"You are trying to kidnap what I have rightfully stolen!:

------------------
~I want to play the guitar very badly, and I do play the guitar very badly - Bono~

Take a virtual tour of U2's Dublin... Crzy4Bono's U2 page with some of Sula's Dublin pic's

Sula's Europe and U2 Concert Pics

 

[Blue Room]

Given my recent discussion on this subject in the Mp3 forum I would just like to point out that it was not me that sent this email to U2LA.

I have the same perspective on the issue as Johnny Swallow. The taper went through the effort of buying the expensive equipment (DAT recorder, good microphone apprx $1000 on the low end) and had to sweat out getting this through security, sit still during the whole show to record properly and risk getting caught, has the right to decide somewhat what happens to that recording. If you dont like it, start recording yourself and release your recordings to everyone, then the problem is solved from your perspective. Most wont do that because it is a pain in the ass to record and takes quite a bit of effort to do it properly.

I also think there is some confusion as to what the taper is actually indicating with LA3. The taper has traded the recording and does not have a problem with people trading it through CDR means. The taper just did not want it encoded to mp3. So this taper is not keeping the recording for themselves, they just dont want it on mp3 as they want to generate trades out of it. They also dont want a flood of mp3 sourced material to show up of their recording in the trading circles as it is lesser quality and most traders dont want mp3 sourced material.



[This message has been edited by Blue Room (edited 12-13-2001).]

 

[Blue Room]

I dont want to start another argument about this. I think Mike P and I already had enough of an intense argument about it in the Mp3 forum.

But I would like to point out that there are many issues as far as taping and trading goes that alot of fans are not aware of.

You are right it is illegal. If U2 or their organization decided to crack down on this who would they go after? The source who is the taper. Also people do take it seriously. People who make excellent recordings have spent alot of time, money and effort into creating such a recording. As I mentioned before to make a great recording it is quite expensive and you need to know what you are doing as far as position, volume levels, etc.

I think that is part of the problem with the internet. Everyone just expects things to be handed to them with little or no effort. It is not difficult to get into the world of CDR trading. There are alot of traders who will help you start your collections by doing blanks and postage (I have helped out a few people here doing this) There are people that spend alot of time and money on these activities and they deserve at the very least the right to say what they want done with it and I think we should have the courtesy to abide by what they request.



[This message has been edited by Blue Room (edited 12-13-2001).]

 

[sulawesigirl4]

I do agree in part with what Blue Room is saying. It is not that hard to get involved in CD trading...I myself started doing so last year and with the help of a few kind fans, I've now got a decent little collection with a variety of boots from all eras. However, I live in the US. I think the situation for fans that are in more remote locations is somewhat different. If you live in say, Thailand...you're probably not likely to be able to break into the world of CDR trading quite as easily, and for you downloading mp3s would be a godsend. So, I don't know. I can definitely see how a taper's wishes (if they are known) should be honored, but in a case where you have not been contacted by them? Yeah, I just don't know. With CD-burners and the internet becoming more and more prevelant though, it's not a debate that's going to disappear anytime soon tho, I'd wager.

 

[mbi16]

BlueRoom, I have a question that might help me understand this better. What is your stance on Napster and other file-sharing programs? Just a simple yes or no will do unless you feel the need to explain something in detail.

------------------
Tha Prickly Comedian

[This message has been edited by mbi16 (edited 12-13-2001).]

 

[Blue Room]

I dont think it is a simple yes or no issue. But I think if an artist is releasing something officially for sale then they deserve to be compensated in some way for it. Bootlegs of live shows are different IMO as they are material the band is not releasing and the people who collect bootlegs are going to buy everything the band releases officially anyway. Bootlegging an offical release is very wrong IMO. It is a fine line but the line is there. I also dont think that someone that tapes the shows should make any money off doing so (most dont). I just think they should be given the courtesy of following their instructions as far as how they want it traded if they go through the effort to record.

U2 could eliminate the entire bootleg issue if they wanted. Like Pearl Jam did they could release a soundboard recording of every single show from the tour. THAT would be outstanding IMO. It would also elminate the elitist issue that alot of people here have a problem with.



[This message has been edited by Blue Room (edited 12-13-2001).]

 

[Hans Moleman]

This is beyond stupid. By all means, post the MP3s! The vast majority here will never see SHNs or original source DATs, etc. For those who appreciate such handiwork, and I can appreciate it, go for it.

The rest of us just don't give a shit. I have very good computer speakers and I'm generally pleased with MP3 quality, even though I know it isn't perfect 16 bit CD quality, but the vast majority couldn't care less. These tapers/hackers need to get a life. If they can't handle the distribution of their work, which is technically illegal anyway, then I would suggest they get a life and a real job.

~melon

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"Oh no...my brains."

 

[Jayhawk]

Well...I figure I should weigh in on this thread. Quite honestly, I think mp3 sourced material is categhorically inferior in every way shape and form. The sound quality is never the as good as a copy off the DAT master or minidisc master---never ever. There are many many nice traders out there who will do a B&P for you as long as you don't make ridiculous demands or complain if it takes more than a week or two. My biggest complaint is where do you think the commercial bootleggers on Ebay are getting the majority of their material? They get it all for free off these hacker mp3 sites. I don't know how many times people have emailed saying they bought a bootleg off Ebay only to discover it was mp3 sourced and they felt ripped off. Quite frankly, if sometime trades an mp3-sourced bootleg to me, I feel ripped off too because I know this person just sat at home one night and downloaded these files off someone's site while I am out there busting my chops trying to obtain show with other like-minded traders who HATE this stuff probably more than I do. I know first hand exactly how hard it is to tape shows and, no matter how "illegal" it is, the wishes of the taper should come before assumptions of the person with the mp3 site. And the selfishness is a two-way street---the taper wants to keep his recording to himself, then you have the fans who think they deserve to hear everything that is out there. It's funny---the expectation to hear everything that is recorded live is placed solely on the tapers and not U2. It's no big secret that U2 records EVERY show they play and the sound quality just has to be superb. It's really a fine line but it comes down to one thing though---respect the tapers wishes when it comes to their recording. UVJ


------------------
I hit an iceberg in my life
You know I'm still afloat
You lose your balance, lose your wife
In the queue for the lifeboat

"New York" U2

[This message has been edited by Jayhawk (edited 12-13-2001).]

 

[GABSTER]

I cant believe you argue about quality when you have a hat on with two microphones sticking out the top on to a MD or DAT.

I have several shows on MP3 and also CD-R the differene in qulaity is just about noticeable. Wow I can hear some girl screaming next to the mike clearer on one copy to the other.

I thnk people who post these shows on the internet are brilliant. Gone are the days when people had to track down and pay for shows, some people are pissed as sites like Blood Red Sky have knocked the arse out the U2 bootleg business. I bet U2 would give Mark there full support if Island would let them. Mark also has made a great record of the way U2 live have changed over the years.

For every trader that does not make a profit their are others who sell the shows on e-bay on the sly without letting out to the rest of the tapping community.

I suggest if any tapers do not like there shows being encrypted then they take that person to court.

 

[camiloj]

Welcome to the new Millenium. Someone that felt strongly enough about sharing the concert with as many people possible must have sent it to the U2BloodRedSky site because not only was it there it is on the
mirror. I have no idea if that concert that I have is the exact same one from the tapers who pissed. I did not receive the concert in CD or SHN form. I downloaded it from the Internet. I may be receiving a copy of
Phoenix, and I wont post it on my site since it is a U2-LA List trade and it seems to be a sensitive issue with a few of them.

It is my opinion that U2 Fans (I'm feeling doctorwho about this time...)are way too nitpicky and divisive these days and this post only re-enforces that opinion. Remember when being a U2 fan was about enjoying an awesome band that delivered great concerts and trying to get your hands on anything they did?? And that was ALL?

Back in 1984, how many of us would have thought it would be this easy to get U2 concerts? And I dont mean sending B&Ps which is cool for the people who want the superioir quality, but I mean for the people
who are quite content with a good audience recording. What about all the people that are out there that have not been personally invited to trade CDs or B&Ps with? Are they not worthy to enjoy the show?? What
about my friends that love U2 and the show but are not members of this Forum or Yahoo Group. Isnt U2 about sharing, not restricting? Why would you say I will share but only in this format only. What sense does that make to U2 fans that just simply want to relive the moment, not want the most perfect sound that they can possibly get down to a technical degree?

I am sorry if it is a tapers copy that is on the U2BloodRedSky site that I put on mine for easier download. But it's out now. And the demand is there and I am doing nothing wrong by letting people have access to something that others can access at Marks U2BloodRedSky site.

If tapers want to stop taping shows because they just can't bear to see the quality of these recordings compromised, then so be it. I think that goes against the U2 grain, I dont think U2 considers an mp3 version of these shows to be crap. The bootlegs that used to be out in the early 90s were crap.

If the memebers of the tapers elite stop, there will be other fans out there like me, who care about U2, care about sharing the joy of their music, not the perfection of the recording. Obviously someone like this already exists, because the taper elite that dont like to share mp3s cannot be responsible for all the mp3s for all the shows when they are against such practice now could it be?

I know it gets the tapers pissed that this has happend, but I get pissed that people want to spread U2 music only their way and to whom they want. It's your recording and your entitled to do what you want with
it, but somehow its already out & about way before I had anything to do with it.

See, all this ranting is really silly in the big picture. This upsets me because this is NOT what being a U2 fan is supposed to be about!!!!

If youre a taper and you dont want it on mp3 dont share it or encode the CD so it cannot be copied or mp3s made. This technology exists but is it worth it just because you want to dictate who hears what? Share it with your friends that you trust only. TRUE U2 fans, yeah, IM going there, who care about EVERYONE enjoying their music will still record the concert and not care about mp3s existing. It will still happen, no one can stop it, welcome to the new Millenium, its just about 2002 not 1992.

 

[Crzy4Bono]

Even though I stayed out of this argument before, here's my 2 cents...

I have a lot of boots that are not MP3, and a few that are. I will trade MP3 if someone asks me, as long as I know what I'm getting and they know what they're getting. I certainly can hear the difference in the sound quality, the lost bits and the tics and gaps, but a lot of people don't care. I just hate it when someone represents something to me one way, and when I get it, particularly after trading something, it isn't. (which happens a lot lately)

However, I have no problem with the availability of MP3s over the internet. I think the tapers, if they have issue, should limit their trades to people they know will abide by their request not to convert to MP3. There are quite a few tapers out there who will only trade on a limited basis with people they know & trust for this very reason (how many traders have items in their collections that don't go up on the website, or on their list?). But if the taper is doing a tree or B&Ps to people they don't know, then it is only to be expected that someone will eventually rip the disc.

I can hear the difference, and I appreciate all the tapers do. But I think that most serious traders know that the original tape didn't sound like what they got on MP3, and don't fault the taper at all. (In fact, most people who go for MP3s have no freaking idea who taped the thing anyway). Tapers should do this 'cause they enjoy having the great recording, and enjoy sharing the music. Most tapers I know want their awesome sounding show, but couldn't care less what happened to it once it got out, as long as no one is making money off their sweat. A few do, I know, but If it were me, I just don't think it would matter all that much to me.

Peace

------------------
She's gonna dream up a world she wants to live in / She's gonna dream out loud.
Visit my web page at www.u2page.com

 

[Blue Room]

Wow, it is amazing to me how people are so sensitive about this issue.

First off, U2LA I dont think you did anything wrong. LA3 was already encoded and posted and obviously when you posted it you did not know about the tapers wishes. But I dont agree with your theory that if someone trades it to a fan they should know it is going to get out. Well if the taper trades to the fan and indicates that the condition of the trade is that they not encode it to mp3 and carry the same condition to anyone else they trade it to and then that person does it anyway. They are a liar and have been completely dis-courteous to the taper. Obviously someone along the line did this with the LA3 show at some point. I dont think being untrustworthy or flat out lying is being a "true" U2 fan either. If someone couldnt agree to the conditions then they should not have traded for it. There is still a thing called integrity.

Alot of tapers dont have a problem with their shows getting encoded and if they dont care encode away. It doesnt bother me either. But if a taper does have conditions I think people should abide by them or simply skip the trade.

The theory that they are going to get out anyway so we dont need to respect the tapers wishes is going to backfire in the long run. If people keep disrespecting what some of the quality tapers want, eventully they are going to do exactly what some of you purposed. Not trade them, keep them for themselves and a few elite people they can trust. Then you will not see recordings for every show like you do now. I dont think anyone pro-mp3 or otherwise wants that to happen.

I think if you want to have mp3's out there available to everyone and dont want to respect tapers wishes I suggest you invest minimum $500 to $1000 in the proper equipment and start taping yourself. I dont think most of you really understand what is involved with doing that and how difficult it really is.

GABSTER, you obviously have no idea what is involved with the costs of a good microphone and a DAT recorder. You obviously have not heard the difference in quality from a DAT recording and a regular tape recorder. Basically your comment is like saying the audience recordings stink anyway so what does it matter. I think that is completely wrong. I very good microphone is going to run $700 to $800 and a DAT recorder will cost a minimum of $500 (and that is a cheap one). I could list off 20 shows from Elevation where there is little to now crowd noise and they are outstanding audience recordings and YES you can tell a difference on those between mp3 and a direct CDR transfer.

My theory is this in a nutshell. If someone spends the time and money on something and has a few conditions that they want you to agree to get that. You should be courteous and have the integrity to respect their wishes or you should not agree to take the item.


[This message has been edited by Blue Room (edited 12-13-2001).]

 

[Hans Moleman]

First of all, I have no sympathy for the taper. Cry me a river. They took it upon themselves to record these shows, no one asked them to. If people want SHN/DAT recordings, I am not opposed to that. I also believe in truth-in-advertising, whereas all traded CD bootlegs should explicitly note how it was sourced, whether it be the good old analog tape, MP3s, or DAT. We all should know exactly where something is coming from.

But I know how it is. Some of these tapers revel in exclusivity. Notice how hard it is to find SHN files out there, and, unless you are part of some little hacker clique out there, you don't get them. If I am wrong on this one, please post some HTTP/FTP sites where I may download them for free, a URL for a program where I could burn these SHNs to CD, and, since I have a T3 for one more day, I will burn and distribute out several of these bootlegs.

These tapers need to take that dried, encrusted shit out of their ass and lighten up. Wake up! 90% of people will never get a hold of "authentic," non-MP3 boots, and so if they suddenly decided not to tape because some big bad U2 fan decided to encode MP3s, then good riddance to them. All the bootlegs I own are MP3 anyway, and I'm not about to take the obsessive amount of time to locate "authentic" bootlegs.

For the uber-fans here who love them, more power to you. As for me, I don't care. Unless it is a soundboard, it is never perfect quality deserving of 48000 Hz DAT quality anyway. I'm surprised CD burning doesn't infuriate these anal tapers, because it reduces it to 16 bit, 41000 Hz stereo. Oh the humanity! I want my 7000 Hz back!

To these tapers, get a life and lighten up. Most of us don't have the means to get your perfect little bootlegs, and most of us have no idea, nor do we care who you are. We do thank you for recording these concerts and we are thankful for that. You should simply be happy that you were the cause of enjoyment for thousands, perhaps even millions of worldwide fans who have been able to enjoy downloads of your concerts. To exact such demands of purity is not only ludicrous, not only arrogant, it is purely laughable, as only a handful will ever be able to get a hold of these "pure" copies. But, considering the U2 fans who bitch about U2 appearing during the Super Bowl halftime because it is too "popular," you probably like it that way.

~melon

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"Oh no...my brains."

[This message has been edited by Hans Moleman (edited 12-13-2001).]

 

[Blue Room]

Oh please, cry me a river yourself. 90% of us dont have the means to get non mp3 sourced material? That is B.S. All you need is a CD burner and take a little initiative. I know that seems to be a new concept to alot people here but try it sometime.

The only recordings that are being held back at all are some of the very rare soundboards that are out there. Some of those traders are a bit elitist. But we are talking about audience recordings here. It is fairly easy to get started in CDR trading. I just started trading CDR's about 1 1/2 years ago and I had very little on CD, about 40 commercial bootlegs accumulated over 14 years and that was it. Most of the traders had those bootlegs already. But there were ALOT of people who would do B & P's. All I had to do was do a search for U2 CDR trading or audio and it was fairly easy to find these people. I now have over 180 recordings on CD and NON of them are mp3 sourced. The CDR trading community is just as big if not bigger than the mp3 community so saying 90% of the fans cant get direct sourced CDR recordings is just ridiculous.

 

[Hans Moleman]

I don't have obsessive amounts of time to get into CD-R recording, nor do I feel I should have to. It's a free nation, and you're dealing with technically illegal material anyway. This is equivalent to Windows XP hackers demanding a certain quality standard for their pirated software packages (and, sick enough, some do).

I don't require perfect bootlegs. I'm happy enough with MP3 sources, and so are lots of people worldwide. Like I've stated, if you so desire to spend your time and energy on these bootlegs, congratulations! It is certainly within your right, but for these tapers to somehow to have this "bigger than Jesus" attitude is only laughable.

I can understand the CD-R community's anger over unlabeled MP3 sourced bootlegs, but to now demand that no one make MP3s is just silly. I really have nothing else to say about this, except that uber-fans just infuriate me to the point of vomiting.

"Oh I'm so mad. I couldn't get into the heart! That would have been 12 shows in a row in the heart too!!!!!!111111 Now, my life sucks."

Some people sure know how to suck the fun out of everything that's for sure.

~melon

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"Oh no...my brains."

 

[Blue Room]

I agree, and your attitude about it is sucking the life out of CDR trading which is normally something that is fun. "Bigger than Jesus attitude?" You have GOT to be kidding me??!! Someone agrees to trade their recording in the trading community but asks to please not encode it to Mp3 and that is being bigger than Jesus??? Are you SERIOUS with that analogy? All I can say is WOW to that.

The illegal argument is ridiculous also. So basically the Mp3 people are posting illegal material also. Whats the difference as far as that goes? That has nothing to do with respecting someones wishes who put time and effort into something. You may say they need to get a life but if they were not taping there would be no recordings out there CDR or mp3. So you obviously dont care about the recordings with that attitude, so why do you care about this thread or topic?



[This message has been edited by Blue Room (edited 12-13-2001).]

 

[Hans Moleman]

If you read all my threads, I am only opposed to that self-important attitude, whereas people have to "respect the wishes" of the tapers. They certainly don't respect the wishes of the arenas and U2's record label who tell them they are not allowed to do this, now do they?

"What's the difference as far as that goes?" I don't know many MP3 traders who exact demands for distribution, but these DAT people certainly seem it. In that regard, they need to lighten up. I have well over 100 MP3 bootlegs and I am very happy and satisfied with them. If I had to rely on CD-R trading only, I wouldn't even have a fraction of that, and might not have any at all.

Some people take U2 far too seriously to the point of laughable obsession, and this is definitely one of those cases.

~Melon

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"Oh no...my brains."

 

[KJ]

Man, I love my bootlegs but some people take this shit WAY too seriously.

All I know is that for me, the supposed lacking in MP3 sound quality (which, although I've never done a side by side comparison, I'm guessing isn't THAT big) is 100% offset by the ease of downloading right off the Internet.

 

[BostonAnne]

Originally posted by Blue Room:
I also think there is some confusion as to what the taper is actually indicating with LA3. The taper has traded the recording and does not have a problem with people trading it through CDR means. The taper just did not want it encoded to mp3. So this taper is not keeping the recording for themselves, they just dont want it on mp3 as they want to generate trades out of it. They also dont want a flood of mp3 sourced material to show up of their recording in the trading circles as it is lesser quality and most traders dont want mp3 sourced material.

If the quality difference between CDR and MP3 is significant to most tape traders, I don't think the taper will lose trades after it was encoded. I think that if traders require CDR recordings, they shouldn't receive mp3's instead and that the downloading of mp3's shouldn't end up in trading circles unless the trader wants mp3's.

With that said, I hope that the traders will receive the quality they want and let people like me download the "substandard" and be extremely happy! Not knowing about this debate, I searched sites daily until Providence October 30 was available for download so I could hear my daughter scream "I love you" after Bono asked her her name during "Bad". I also finally got to hear the prayer he said after since I was too dazed to really hear it during the concert!

I still don't even know how to begin to get a CDR version of the concert! It makes me kind of sad that the taper might be angry that I have the mp3 version of it!

I think everyone can be happy if people disclose the quality of their trades honestly. Then the CDR versions will be as valued as they are now by the people looking for that quality and they can hopefully ignore the mp3's.

U2LA, I was looking forward to hearing LA3's "Out of Control" with the Into the Heart snippet - so I really appreciate you having it on your site and it's great! Thanks!

 

[mbi16]

After much thinking and confusion I still don't know why can't both co-exist? The fans that want the real thing will know where to get it because if they are obsessed enough to know the difference they will just plain old know where to find it. It's hard enough to control the distribution of a product when it's legal much less if it's illegal.

Yes I understand that person that taped the show should be allowed a certain amount of say because it was their money and efforts that made the recording to begin with but you must understand that that kind of say just doesn't exist. It's like telling someone not to make a cassette copy of their CDs simply cause it will lose quality. But to that person he would rather lose a little quality and be able to hear it in his car then not hear it in his car simply cause he can't afford a CD player for the car.

Understand that when you are recording these events that when you start to distribute them you'll be giving up a certain amount of control over the material. If you can't deal with that don't record it. Like I said it's not like the original format will cease to exist. Let people decide whether or not MP3's are a rip off, we're all adults we can choose.

I don't know it's all just plain silly if you ask me. I got the boot which is in question here and have been doing my best to get it out to people but I just plain can't reach everyone. Some of the people that want them don't have burners, don't have another single boot, don't collect them, they just want a copy of the concert they went to. They were lucky to find me but what about the thousands of people that attended the show and didn't? Yes it would be nice to be able to offer the same high quality show to them but the files are huge, not everyone has high speed internet access and it's not like you tapers and traders are screaming for requests or make yourselves that noticeable online. We only find you once we start to participate in the community like feedback and U2LA. In all honesty you couldn't possibly do that, become as organized as some of the MP3 sites, because then you'd run the risk of getting on the industry's bad side and have them come after you like they came after Napster.

So once again why can't both co-exist?

P.S. "you" is not directed towards anyone in particular.

------------------
Tha Prickly Comedian

 

[Jayhawk]

I just can't figure out all the hostility towards "elitist" tapers. Exactly who are they and what do they have? Do we even really know? I am far from elitist(very very far) but I completely understand why a taper would not their recording bootlegged to hell on the internet. People are posting things about microphones attached to a hat patched into a DAT or minidisc player. If it was only that easy...I don't have expertise/technical knowledge to even begin to explain how much more involved taping has become on this tour. It goes so far beyond what people think they know. Through time and my own experience, I have learned that people who tape, do it for the honest love of the music---some of you probably don't believe me on that either. A lot of care, time, pride, and money is put into that recording and it's something I don't think many people even understand.

I don't know what it is about bootlegs, but there seems to be this sense of "entitlement" with the results. Like just because it exists, it is expected, and almost demanded, that it be heard by every Joe Blow fan out there. How many of us know what is really out there? I certainly don't. Like I posted earlier...why demand that of the taper when the band itself tapes every show they play! I don't see anyone badmouthing the band for not releasing a 2CD set of every show they have played! I just don't understand all the criticism of fans who collect non-mp3 material and have no interest in mp3-sourced material as well. If you prefer mp3 sourced material that is fine, but why criticize the very people that provide the material in the first place? And as far as laughable obsession??? What exactly is wrong with collecting U2 bootlegs as a hobby? I truly enjoy trading shows with like-minded fans and I would gladly burn off some shows for the newbie collector who has nothing to trade or even the long-time fan who wants a copy of the show they attended. All someone has to do is ask me and I can probably have the show mailed off in a week or so. It's great fun to help someone get a collection started and it ends up that you help each other out and just one more way fans can interact. This thread has become just a general criticism of tapers with very little factual basis---only opinions.

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I hit an iceberg in my life
You know I'm still afloat
You lose your balance, lose your wife
In the queue for the lifeboat

"New York" U2

 

[kobayashi]

did anyone else see the seinfeld when jerry starts bootlegging movies for kramer's friend, crazy rudy?


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against smileys

 

[camiloj]

Originally posted by Jayhawk:
This thread has become just a general criticism of tapers with very little factual basis---only opinions.

That it may have, and maybe I was a little selfish but I wanted to know why I was receiving a complaining email when I thought I was doing something good for U2 fans. I now stand educated on the matter and I tend to agree with mbi16, why cant we coexist? That is indeed the reality.

But the thing Jayhawk is a Taper started this issue in the first place by objecting to my posting the mp3s of LA3 after I got them off another U2 FTP site (I think we all know which one). Thats what made me wonder, how could a U2 fan try to stop another U2 fan from sharing the music??? Now I know and now that I know, to tell you the truth, it doesnt make me feel any better. This thread is mellow compared to the dialouge I got involved with with the actual taper of LA3 in the Yahoo U2-LA Group (I think mbi16 saw some of that). He asked me to take them down, and it was a hard decision but I have decided against it as I am not the SOLE source of the mp3s anymore, nor was I ever. IF I had been given the CD and then went and made mp3s against his will and posted them and he asked me to take them down of course I would. But in the case of LA3, it is too late. So they will remain up as long as my site exists.

I'm all for the tapers that dont want their CDs made into mp3s not sharing them with people. Let them keeop their concerts in the future.

I firmly believe that the spirit of U2 fans exists in enough tapers that someone will always not care if they make it to mp3 and share it with more people.

Anyway, sorry to wake a sleeping dog.

 

[mbi16]

Yeah I've seen it buddy, I think I'm gonna copy and paste my last comment over there, cause it's getting outta hand now. If you think here is personal here you should not even look over there. I didn't want to get involved but I also think you're getting ganged on and that's not right.

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Tha Prickly Comedian