starvinmarvin
Refugee
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2005
- Messages
- 1,178
STING2 said:
Its 14 of Iraq's provinces that are peaceful not just 4. It does make a difference that 14 are peaceful and this fact is rarely reported by the media! Plus there is not an overwhelming sense of crises all across Iraq. Most people in the other 14 provinces site things other than the insurgency as their biggest concerns.
The primary rational for the war was Saddam's Failure to verifiably disarm of all WMD. That rational still stands today because Saddam never verifiably disarmed of over 1,000 Liters of Anthrax, 500 pounds of mustard gas, 500 pounds of nerve gas and over 20,000 Bio Chem capable shells. The Saddam failed to disarm of these items is fact reported by the UN weapons inspectors. The fact that the coalition has not found such materials since invading Iraq is not evidence that there were none. The evidence from years of UN inspections shows that Saddam had this material, in addition Saddam even admitted they he had it. The fact that this material exist is not in doubt, the only questions are, is it still intact or was it dismantled without UN supervision, If it was dismantled when and where was it dismantled.
The United States was not the only country that knew Saddam had WMD, the whole world new. In addition the UNITED NATIONS passed 3 different resolutions authorizing the use of military force if Saddam failed to verifiably disarm of all WMD. These resolutions were resolution 678 (1990), 687 (1991), and 1441 (2002). The United States help to assembled a coalition that consisted of over 50 nations that provided resources for the invasion. The United Nations has since passed 3 different resolutions approving the occupation!
No one lied and the threat Saddam posed to this country and the world was extremely serious. Any serious and objective study of the importance of the Persian Gulf to the planet in terms of energy supply and what a sudden cut off from such supplies would do to the planet will show that.
Once again the November 2004 election was the best indicator of support in the country for the war. It clearly showed that the American people despite all the rantings of the left as well as hollywood still support the war as well as the Presidents policies in winning it.
Also the carnage from the war has received tremondous coverage every night on the major news networks as well as cable news and local media. So this idea that this is all hidden is completely false.
The cost of the war in terms of money is not a surprise, the level of casualties to certain degree, at least from the way things were in the begining is a surprise. The Sunni population and the remainder of Saddam's regime have built a strong insurgency in 4 of Iraq's 18 provinces. Still it should be mentioned that casualties compared in the current war are only a fraction of what they were in Vietnam. The year my father was in Vietnam, 1968, over 16,500 US troops were killed and another 80,000 were wounded. Of course the loss or injury to just one life is a tragedy, but if one is going to use the current numbers of the Iraq war in a way to emphasise the cost to the nation as whole, then one needs to compare the cost of previous conflicts is one is going to be objective about what the cost to the nation as whole really is.
The lowest opinion poll for the war that I have seen recently is 42% still in favor. Back in February it was above 50% which was actually above what it was back in October. Still these opinion polls go up and down and are nothing compared to the accuracy of the Presidential Election in November 2004.
-The first failure you site, was not a failure at all. The Presumption is that if there were twice as many Brigades on the ground at the end of the war that there would be no violence no insurgency, no problems, which is complete rubbish. Violence in Iraq following the toppling of Saddam was actually VERY low. Certainly there was looting and disturbances through out the country, but much of this was temporary, unavoidable and enevitable. The insurgency that is on going now, was partly planned by Saddam long before the first shot was fired based on documents that have been recovered.
- your second claim of failure is also wrong. This idea that there was not even elementary post war planning and that there was no exit strategy is simply a political catch phrase of the left. The United States and its coalition allies have been involved in an extensive reconstruction effort in a country that has been ruled by one of the most brutal dictators in history for the past 25 years as well as being involved in many wars. The United States and its allies are spending Billions of dollars to help rebuild the country and defeat the Sunni insurgency. There have been multiple accomplishments and things are moving foward, not backward.
For your information, most Iraqi's actually support the occupation and do not want US forces to pull out. Only Saddam's former regime elements which make up the corp of the insurgency as well as Al Quada want the USA and the coalition to leave. Once again, look back to the 8 million people who voted in the elections in January!
Your accusations about the mistreatment of prisoners is just pure rubbish. There has been isolated abuse, but nothing on the level you talk about. Once again, my friends who have served multiple tours in the Marines in Iraq can attest to this fact. My best friend flew a Combat Helicopter escort mission for a prisoner in Abu Graib who needed an organ transplant. Here he was risking his life to insure this terrorist could get the best medical treatment in the world!
Whats more, you simply ignore the tens of thousands of Iraqi insurgents and Saddam military troops who were wounded and their lives were saved by US troops!
Iraq is not Afghanistan. The Shia in the South are not members of the Taliban, nor are they Iranians, they Arabs that have grown up with Iraq as their history, and its totally inaccurate to make some sudden gross generalization about them because of their religion. To equate everyone in the Shia part of Iraq with Bin Ladin and Al Quada is just absurd.
The Iraqi military today has 10 Battalions that function interchangably with US army and Marine Battalions, as well as 90 Battalions that are currently training to get to that level. Things are improving, but building a new army takes years! If one considers this a failure then one may not understand the reality of building a new military from scratch.
Its a bit naive to declare that Iraqi's line up every day to risk life and limb just because they were unable to find a labor job in downtown Baghdad. Once again, look at the January election and all the people who risked life and limb for NO monetary gain at all. The terrorist are attacking and killing Iraqi civilians and attempting to prevent the development of the country both politically and economically. It is not surprising that people are angry and want to strike back at the terrorist who are trying to prevent the development of their country.
Are you for real? Or are you a machine created by the Pentagon to constantly spit out useless information? Whatever the case, you're just looking at the facts with a deluded neo-con lens, and you're going to interpret everything in Iraq as progess, even if people are dying every day. You can justify the invasion of Iraq all you want, but your logic is circular, and sooner than later it will come around and bite you in the ass. Only a fool would think that the invasion of Iraq was just, and that progress is being made. Iraq is in the midst of a Civil War, and things are not going to get better any time soon.