Joshua Tree: A New Double Album

[U2Soar]

Many of us are familiar will Bill Tiede’s JT Double Album proposal.

http://www.tiede.com/joshuatree/

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The Edge and Bono Talk

Not long after the album came out and hit it big, I began to notice an interesting trend in the interviews where the band would talk about the learning process they had gone through, the exposure to so much they had not considered before, and how they had "learned to write songs", a lot of songs. I pored through other interviews and stories, and found one in Hot Press (one of Ireland's premier music magazines) as reprinted in America in Three Chords and the Truth, (a book you may be able to still special order from Harmony Books).

The following excerpt is from from Hot Press, December, 1987, from an article by Bill Graham with an interview with Edge and Bono:

[Edge:] "... For instance, we disagreed vehemently about what songs should go on the album. If Bono had his way, 'The Joshua Tree' would have been more American and bluesy, and I was trying to pull it back."

That compromise led to the later flood of new B-side tracks. Bono will argue that "the album is almost incomplete. 'With or Without You' doesn't really make sense without 'Walk to the Water' or 'Luminous Times'. And 'Trip Through Your Wires' doesn't make that much sense without 'Sweetest Thing.'

[end of excerpt]

Another interview was on Radio One in Dublin, with Dave Fanning, where Bono talks about how they originally thought of releasing a double album, but there were so few good double-album releases (he mentions Bob Dylan's "Blonde on Blonde" as being a good one). He also felt that their pared down version of "The Joshua Tree" was almost "too much" for one listen as it was released.

Side A:

Where The Streets Have No Name
Silver And Gold (Studio Version)
I Still Haven't Found...
Spanish Eyes
With Or Without You
Luminous Times
Walk To The Water
Bullet The Blue Sky
Running To Stand Still

Side B:

Red Hill Mining Town
Race Against Time
In God's Country
Trip Through Your Wires
Sweetest Thing
One Tree Hill
Deep In The Heart
Exit
Mothers Of The Disappeared

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Well, now the 20th Anniversary Edition has given us 5 additional songs plus, for many fans, access finally to Deep In The Heart and Race Against Time!

If interested, how would your JT Double Album look like? One extended CD or 2 CDs? Your track order and explanations on how and why it flows together? The story that it tells?

Maybe you would prefer to leave JT alone and just reorganize a second CD of the B-Sides?

 

[U2Soar]

I would like to add some further information to Tiede’s gathering of U2’s comments regarding a double album:

Bono: On the "With or Without You" EP there are three songs that all deal with obsession, with that kind of sexuality. I'd like to have done a whole side, a whole record, blue. That EP is something close.

Hutchinson: "Luminous Times" is very somber -- it's almost like a track from Low or Heroes.

Edge: It's a great track. Some of those songs would definitely have been contenders for the album, but what happened was -- and it is a classically "U2" thing to do -- we had quite a lot of time to work on the record, but right in the middle the Amnesty tour came up. That took us out of circulation for about two months, because of the dates, recovering, getting the gear back, and getting back into the studio. We ran out of time. There would have been two records, depending on which songs we decided to finish. There was this one album, the "blues" album that Bono was talking about, and another, much more "European," which is kind of the way I was led. "Luminous Times" would have been on it, as would "Walk to the Water." In a funny way you aim somewhere, but the album itself makes up its own mind. We hustled to try to finish it, and to get our own views across, but it is a democratic band, and neither my nor Bono's feelings came through completely. What we ended up with was The Joshua Tree.

Bono: "Running to Stand Still" was always meant to be followed by "Red Hill Mining Town" and that's one reason for having the CD -- although I'm not a big CD person myself.

Bono: I tend, as a word writer, to think in terms of a running order. It would be on my mind a lot. The whole process of U2 involves four people, and we all have different opinions. Side two would have been different if I'd had my way. I wanted it to go further into the swamp. There was a very different piece before "Exit," and a gospel song to go before that. I had this idea that we should start with U2 -- with "Where the Streets Have No Name" -- and then dismantle U2 during the record, and be left with nothing recognizable as us. This didn’t completely come to be, because in the end we took decisions on the strength of the songs. I would battle for more for the big idea, for the structure of the whole record, but in the end what we went for -- dare I say it -- was the Beatles' idea that each song has its own identity.

Luminous Times - John Hutchinson - Musician - October 01, 1987

 

[U2Soar]

Before we get started, I’d like to mention 3 other possible contender songs:

A.) Heartland? In the book Into The Heart: The Stories Behind Every U2 Song by Niall Stokes The Edge revealed that the song Heartland was dropped at the last minute from JT in favor of Trip Through Your Wires. Also, we can see that it was Produced by Eno & Lanois who were not involved with the Rattle & Hum Album.

B.) Sweet Fire Of Love & Testimony? These two songs appeared on Robbie Robertson’s 1987 album titled Robbie Robertson. Both songs were recorded during the JT recording sessions; in the same studio in Dublin; produced by the JT Producer, Daniel Lanois; both were co-written by U2; and both tracks involve all members of U2 performing on them.

What do U2 fans think of Sweet Fire Of Love and Testimony? Great, decent, mediocre, poor songs?

Do they have a lyrical and/or musical connection and fit to the Joshua Tree album?

Could they be considered as sort of like JT B-Sides? And could they be seen as 2 additional songs to think about when compiling a JT double album (which a number of fans have tried putting together a track order for)?

Or are they just songs to add to a compilation of Band Side Projects?

 

[U2Soar]

I came across this article while doing a google search on these 2 songs.

The Return of Robbie Robertson - by Bill Flanagan from Musician magazine, September 1987
http://theband.hiof.no/articles/rr_musician_sep_87.html

Work on the album began in June of 1986. Robbie and fellow Canadian Dan Lanois hit it off quickly - they both love experimenting with sounds. They also both like to get a lot of interesting sonic options on tape - and use the mix to choose between them, but not to alter the sounds themselves. Work began, but Robbie's pal Scorsese was after him to do the soundtrack for The Color of Money. Robbie kept trying to say no, and Scorsese kept calling him with one more problem, one more question, one more idea…..So the Robertson project was put on hold. Lanois, back up The Joshua Tree, got Robbie to promise to come over to Dublin to do some recording with Band fans U2.

…..Robbie flew to New York to work on Color of Money horn charts with Gil Evans. "We're really under the gun time-wise, people are pulling their hair out, going nuts. We finish up the last piece of music for the film, I play my last guitar fill, and I grab my bag, run down to a taxi, and catch this plane to Dublin to try this musical experiment with U2. It's been set up that we're going to try mixing worlds together to see what happens. Those guys are in a very rootsy period. So anyway, I'm on the plane flying over there and I realize I have nothing written. I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm thinking, 'Oh I'll write something on the plane.' It's the biggest lie I've ever told myself in my life. On the plane I've got the perfect guy sitting beside me - he has a million things to say about everything and I can't stop him. We get to Dublin and they're having a hurricane! The plane barely makes it. I'm driving into town and cars are floating down the street! I'm thinking, 'Boy, this is one big disaster in the making here.' I'm taken to this house, I don't know where I am, I don't know what I'm doing. All I know is, I don't have any songs! Everybody's real nice and it's like another world, a twilight zone I've entered in a storm. I am so delirious from the work I've done in New York I can't even feel the predicament I'm in. I know I've got something to do, but I don't know what it is. They see I'm a hopeless case and send me up to some bedroom on a back floor. With great relief I go up there to try to rest and think, 'Maybe I'll write something while I'm up here!' I jotted down a few ideas. I had thrown two tapes in my bag. One was a horn chart I had done with Gil Evans that we weren't going to use in the movie. I thought maybe I can play this for them, maybe it'll inspire something. And I had this other little cassette of me playing a guitar riff and a tom-tom. Not much to go on. But while I was in the bedroom recuperating I actually got a few ideas. So the next day comes and it's time to deliver on this. Daniel plays the first tape for the guys. They hear this guitar riff, this tom-tom. Bono says, 'Let's go.' I'm thinking, 'Oh, God, let's go where?' I'm pulling scraps of paper out of my pockets. We start - and these guys jumped right in the water. They did something! I thought of a word idea, Bono thought of something. We recorded this song and it was twenty-two minutes long! We listened to it and said, 'That's pretty good!' The song they had cut - "Sweet Fire of Love" was terrific. Robbie and Edge trade guitar fire while Bono, singing higher than normal, and Robbie, singing lower than normal, rail at each other like Gabriel and Lucifer. "Didn't we cross the waters?" Robbie sings, "Didn't we break the silence?" He sings of coming through the storm. If "Sweet Fire" were on a U2 record, you'd say the song was apocalyptic, but knowing that Robbie entered Dublin through a hurricane, it becomes literal. The Gil Evans horn charts evolved into a track called "Testimony," and then, two gems under his arm, Robbie got some sleep.

"We just threw the chips into the hat and mixed it up to see what would come." Robbie says. "Edge and I got into this guitar thing that I love. I love guitars screaming at, talking to, each other." In Edge, Robertson saw a guitarist like himself, more concerned with total effect than flash or solos. "It's whether it's musical." Robbie nods. "That's all it takes. It doesn't have to be complicated, it just has to speak to the soul of the issue. If it does right by the song you've made the right choice. In this day and age I have trouble telling one guitarist from the other. With Edge I hear three notes and I know it's him. The sound was always way up front for me. Look at Miles Davis! People would play a thousand notes; Miles would play one note, I could recognize him, and it would break my heart to boot. One reason I wanted to try this experiment with U2 was because I was very impressed by this group as a rhythm section. Larry Mullen has incredible rock 'n' roll instincts, and he and Adam, the bass player, do something that feels fantastic. When I'd listen to those guys I'd think, 'This is the real item.'"

…….Days earlier he mentioned a thread that ties his songs together. Asked about it now, he says, "All it is for me is the sense of an American mythology. You'll hear it in the song we're going to mix next - 'Somewhere Down The Crazy River.' In my mind there's this mythical place in America where the storyteller lives. And he tells stories based on this place and people who've come through, and his experiences…..

 

[U2FanPeter]

Was there any rhyme or reason to which Bsides were combined with certain hits on the CD singles?

 

[The Disciple]

Never heard of Sweet Fire of Love & Testimony.... interesting.

 

[phillyfan26]

For Heartland - the lyrics as we know them (which are fantastic) were not written until after the Joshua Tree Tour, during the Rattle and Hum sessions, based on a cross-country trip Bono and Adam had. So, we would not have gotten the same Heartland on Joshua Tree as we eventually did.

 

[Harry Vest]

Red Hill mining town was to follow Running To Stand Still - that makes absolutley no sense at all. Running To Stand Still is a great ender to a side of an album!!!

 

[Reggie Thee Dog]

Sweet Fire of Love is an intense aggressive song...the best part being the interplay between Robertson and Bono's vocals...and equally as interesting is the outro solos going back from the Edge to Robertson.

Testimony is fairly pedestrian, but a nice song nonetheless...

 

[phillyfan26]

Was there any rhyme or reason to which Bsides were combined with certain hits on the CD singles?

For With or Without You, absolutely. They've mentioned many times that WOWY had to have Walk to the Water and Luminous Times (Hold on to Love) with it.

 

[kevink]

Maybe you would prefer to leave JT alone and just reorganize a second CD of the B-Sides?

I think with the ommision of the Streets single edit, the second version of Silver and Gold, and Drunk Chicken (it's hard for me to think of this track as U2 with some guy talking over it), the Bonus Audio CD makes for a fine 11-track album all by itself.

1. Luminous Times (Hold on to Love)
2. Walk to the Water
3. Spanish Eyes
4. Deep in the Heart
5. Silver and Gold
6. Sweetest Thing
7. Race Against Time
8. Beautiful Ghost / Introduction to Songs of Experience
9. Wave of Sorrow (Birdland)
10. Desert of Our Love
11. Rise Up

By the way, Race Against Time > Beautiful Ghost > Wave of Sorrow =

Rise Up makes a fine album closer.

 

[ahittle]

Those Robertson tracks are okay. It was cool to hear U2 as a backing band and laying down some rock and roll, but I don't consider them U2 songs at all. There are a few other really good songs on that Robbie Robertson record, but some stuff is so dated that it is cringe-worthy. The U2 stuff holds up.

 

[Bono's shades]

I like that Robbie Robertson record. The U2 tracks are my favorites, of course (especially Sweet Fire of Love) but Somewhere Down The Crazy River is a great song as well.

 

[chocky]

I've had a playlist on my iPod for a couple of years that combines:
- JT album
- 7 b-sides
- Sweet Fire of Love (awesome song)
- Maggie's Farm (from Live for Ireland CD)
- Springhill Mining Disaster (live)

I'm not sure what to do with these new tracks. Rise Up and Desert of Our Love are OK demos but not in the league as the other tracks. Wave of Sorrow is an excellent track - but it's 2007 Bono.

I wish Drunk Chicken was an instrumental. The poem ruins the song IMHO.

 

[65980]

Different 'Joshua Tree'

This is interesting. I think Bono and Edge had a tendency (from mid-1987 through 1989) to talk A LOT about their music and their success, and I suspect that the chances of Joshua Tree becoming a double-album were less than is suggested by these much-later interviews. After all, it was clearly designed as a record to break them big in America, and double-albums aren't the way to do that. Edge's reasoning -- that the 3-week summer tour interfered with the "vision" of the double album -- doesn't really hold water, especially since the record came out 9 months after that brief tour, and (so it seems) all those B-side songs were done and mixed before Joshua Tree came out.

Having given this some thought just now, I decided on how I would re-order the record, if I had a time machine (it's a single album, which is how I prefer it):

1. Where The Streets Have No Name
2. Bullet The Blue Sky
3. In God's Country
4. I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For
5. With Or Without You
6. Running To Stand Still

7. The Sweetest Thing
8. Trip Through Your Wires
9. Spanish Eyes
10. Walk To The Water
11. One Tree Hill
12. Mothers Of The Disappeared

OK, let me explain:
-- I dropped 'Red Hill Mining Town' and 'Exit'. These are both great songs, but the former was a bit outdated when the album came out (inspired by the 1984 strike) and its Euro-subject matter doesn't really match the Americana theme of the record. The band never played it live, so they seem to have moved past it by the time the record came out, too. In the case of 'Exit', it's a hard one to cut, but it's so badly recorded on the album (almost inaudible on the CD) and so much better on the JT tour that it just pales by comparison now. So, drop it.
-- I don't think 'Heartland' was available by early '87 --- maybe the rough cut, but not the finished song. So it's not on here.
-- I don't think the other JT B-sides are strong enough to make the album. 'Luminous Times' is certainly nice, but not quite there, in my opinion. 'Race Against Time' is clearly inferior.
-- Yes, I love 'Walk To The Water'!

I would alter the remaining tracks' running order, as you see. I really like 'Bullet' as the second track; it always seems a bit discordant coming after 'With Or Without You.'

Anyway, just my take on it. But I'm just happy to have finally heard all the Joshua Tree era songs over the past year or two!

 

[BVS]

Red Hill mining town was to follow Running To Stand Still - that makes absolutley no sense at all. Running To Stand Still is a great ender to a side of an album!!!

That was a perfect transition(one of the best)...the one that always bugged me was WOWY to BTBS.

 

[jcroach]

- Springhill Mining Disaster (live)

Great track! I wish they would have recorded the whole song in the studio.

 

[Screwtape2]

Re: Re: Joshua Tree: A New Double Album

I think with the ommision of the Streets single edit, the second version of Silver and Gold, and Drunk Chicken (it's hard for me to think of this track as U2 with some guy talking over it), the Bonus Audio CD makes for a fine 11-track album all by itself.

1. Luminous Times (Hold on to Love)
2. Walk to the Water
3. Spanish Eyes
4. Deep in the Heart
5. Silver and Gold
6. Sweetest Thing
7. Race Against Time
8. Beautiful Ghost / Introduction to Songs of Experience
9. Wave of Sorrow (Birdland)
10. Desert of Our Love
11. Rise Up

By the way, Race Against Time > Beautiful Ghost > Wave of Sorrow =

Rise Up makes a fine album closer.

I really like this idea.

 

[U2Soar]

Yes Phillyfan26, I did read Bono say in the book U2 By U2 that he wrote the lyrics for Heartland after a post-JT trip through America with Adam. However, The Edge states that Heartland was replaced on JT by Trip at the last minute. (And one can see why they made that choice – to loosen up an already intense and dark album). Possibly it was case that the music, vocals, and lyrics was recorded during the JT sessions and but only the music remained the same with Bono going back and rewriting the lyrics and re-recording his vocals (sort of like Wave of Sorrow)? Or could it be case of Bono’s memory vs. The Edge’s memory? Regardless, it’s a fine track that at the very least has its roots in the JT recording sessions.

 

[U2Soar]

Kevink, I do like your idea of Rise Up as a closing track. And an interesting contrast to Mothers which closes JT itself. Though I think that as soon as I get a copy I’m going try to see if I can make edit by seeing how it sounds without the first 51 seconds.

 

[U2Soar]

Just a general comment regarding this thread:

Some people may not prefer the fact that the first half of this second disc is just a chronological listing of the 3 released Singles and with the songs in the same order in which they appeared on the Singles.

Some people may not prefer to include Where The Streets Have No Name (Single Edit) and Silver And Gold (Sun City) since they are not new material / songs.

Some people may not prefer to include Beautiful Ghost and Drunk Chicken/America
Since they were not written by U2 or in the case of the latter not sung by U2.

Some people may not prefer to include Desert Of Our Love and Rise Up since they are not fully formed songs but demos.

Some people may not prefer to include Wave of Sorrow since it involves Bono’s vocals from 2007 and likely lyrics from 2007 too.