Lancemc
Blue Crack Addict
Give me your email, punk.
namkcuR said:All excellent points, Laz.
Palpatine's manipulation of everything is the best part of the prequel trilogy, imo. If you look at the prequel trilogy just from the perspect of the Anakin transformation story, there are definitely some major flaws, but when you look at it from the perspective of the bigger picture, of how Palpatine turned the entire 'Old Republic' into the 'Galactic Empire' that everybody is fighting against in the OT, and of how the Jedi ceased to exist and the reason why they had to 'Return' in the OT, they do a very good job, even great at parts.
Sometimes I think that younger kids watching the prequels don't realize that 'The Phantom Menace' is in fact referring to Palpatine/Sideous, and not, perhaps, to Maul or something.
namkcuR said:Then I'll say something you won't want to write a rebuttal for
In response to the earlier T2 bashing....
Understand this: Terminator and T2(for the purposes of this post, let's pretend T3 doesn't exist) are not just films about Arnold Schwarzenegger running around blowing stuff up. There's plenty of violence in both films but they aren't about the violence.
They tell a story about the imperfections and flaws of mankind, and about how the same imperfections and flaws that machines lack are what make humanity neccessary. They are about the uniqueness of humanity, about the ability of humanity to adapt to life(and the absence of this ability in machines), and about how that life itself is based upon the imperfections and flaws of everybody. These films aren't about violence. They're about the nature of humanity. Which entails violence. There are few topics more profound.
Or maybe I'm just looking for meaning where there is none.
lazarus said:
While I hate to use someone else's words in a discussion, David Foster Wallace, one of my favorite writers (and author of epic masterpiece Infinite Jest) published this essay about T2 nearly 10 years ago, and he makes a much better case than I ever could for its failings. Keep in mind this is written by someone who is a huge fan of the original Terminator and Cameron's Aliens. It's not too long of a read, and while I don't agree with everything he says, it's food for thought. And it's really funny.
Wallace is famous for his witty and often divergent footnotes, so be sure to read them as well. You can click on them as they appear, and click right back to continue with the main essay.
http://www.ptwi.com/~bobkat/waterstone.html
What I find ironic is that Cameron appears to be guilty of the catering to the lowest common denominator and pandering in the way that Lucas has been accused so often of doing. While Cameron's film doesn't come off as "embarrassing" on the surface as The Phantom Menace, the thing was doomed from the beginning because of a forced and contrived concept.
No spoken words said:
Nothing I can really add to the Star Wars discussion (let's just say that I agree with Lazarus), but I can 2nd the work of Wallace. He has a collection of pieces he's written called "Consider the Lobster"....and the piece he wrote after attending the Porn awards in Vegas is fucking incredibly funny.
I remember watching Sith and seeing Kashiik, and thinking about how I could sit and watch a 2 hour film with strictly fake planets, if Lucas was behind it. Maybe that's not the recipe for a perfect film, creating lush or detailed worlds at the cost of coaxing strong performances from your actors, but it's still stimulating to me.
Anyone in here familiar with the films of David Gordon Green? If so, thoughts?
lazarus said:I don't know that Darth Maul really deserved more screen time. Dooku was a more fascinating character because of his former Jedi status, and how you weren't really sure what his motives were (look how he tells Obi-Wan EXACTLY what's happening when he captures him in Clones). Like Boba Fett, Maul looked cool but had, what, 3 lines of dialogue? The difference is that at least Maul had a glorious exit, getting sliced in half by Obi-Wan, instead of getting accidentally knocked into the Sarlacc pit by a blind and stumbling Han Solo.
lazarus said:Green was actually mentored by Malick, and is friends with him. I'm pretty sure Malick produced or executive produced Undertow. He's obviously a more urban filmmaker than Malick, the pictures less pretty, but he has the same way of shooting as if you're eavesdropping on random conversation that is somehow very profound.
LemonMacPhisto said:
The next edition of Jedi better have a scene at the end of the credits with a big Fettman hand coming out of the sand. That would be badass.
Anakin's path to the Dark Side was hinted at greatly in the previous films, but his final decision in III was too abrupt for my tastes.
That being said, Palpy might be my 4th fave character of the entire series, behind Han Solo, Yoda, and Obi-Wan.
No spoken words said:
I've said it before...the scene where Palpatine works on Annakin during that Cirque du Soleil or whatever it was is my favorite scene from any Star Wars film not named "Empire Strikes Back"
LemonMacPhisto said:
He's the Swoop of the Original Trilogy.
lazarus said:A couple things, I'm glad you seemed to read it with an open mind, Lance, and you have to imagine Wallace with tongue firmly planted in cheek. If you ever feel like reading a nearly 1,000 page novel about entertainment and addiction which takes place simultaneously at a alcoholic's halfway house and a tennis academy, pick up Infinite Jest. It's one of the best, and funniest things I've ever read. Check out the reviews on Amazon or the Wikipedia page. This thing has legions of followers.
Anyway, back to the films. I don't really concern myself much with the arguments against SFX, though I do agree that for the MOST part, the idea that returning the studio's investment by lowering the intelligence of your films, and thereby resulting in a poorer film, is not an erroneous one. Star Wars is obviously exempt from this, as they are funded by Lucas himself, and any weaknesses are because of his own tendencies, as opposed to commercial concerns.
I think what he has to say about the screenplay is much more apt criticism. The idea that Arnold dictated the use of his character is pretty pathetic, though I imagine Cameron didn't have much of a choice if he wanted to go ahead and make his film. And I don't think I need to say anything about the use of another whiny kid in an otherwise adult-themed film.
It's a trite screenplay, plain and simple. There are some great action scenes and breakthrough effects, and I feel that while those elements served the story in The Abyss, they overwhelmed them here.
No spoken words said:YLB, watch "All the Real Girls".
Lancemc said:
Maybe I'll check out more of the guy's work, since you seem to recommend him so strongly.
[/end Cameron rant]