Interesting Post from Zootopia
- Thread starter ramblin rose
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doctorwho
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
chango said:
Thanks for your opinion, but as another long time fan, I completely disagree. In fact, I so disagree with you that if the tour is nothing but older songs, then *I* will be done defending the band!!
I love the new album and find it better than some of their past works (that includes JT, R&H, Zooropa and Pop). So I can't wait to hear this live. I happen to agree with Bono that HTDAAB is one of their strongest albums.
Also, it should be pointed out that the whole reason to tour is to promote the new album! The JT tour promoted JT and hence that material dominated the setlist. ZOO TV promoted AB and those songs dominated the setlist. The Elevation tour promoted ATYCLB and hence we had 7-8 songs from ATYCLB. Therefore, I fully expect the Vertigo tour to contain 7-8 songs from HTDAAB. U2 rarely plays the full album (and this included the JT tour). However, at this point of their careers, they have such a successful back catalog that it truly must be difficult to decide which songs get cut and which songs must stay. I don't envy U2 here as no one will be satisfied with the setlist. Fans will always want more or complain about left-out songs. Even if U2 mixes up the setlist, fans will still complain. Someone who sees U2 in Chicago on the first night will complain that they didn't get to hear their favorite song that was played on the second night.
Regardless, I think we shouldn't expect much more than the Elevation tour setlist. Even the AB tour setlist wasn't that long. 20-25 songs seems about the maximum.
djerdap
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
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Axver, you rule.
U2girl, you're wrong. And it is obvious that you don't have the objectivity that is necessary to compare the two tours. Just get used to the fact that some people don't like ATYCLB.
U2girl, you're wrong. And it is obvious that you don't have the objectivity that is necessary to compare the two tours. Just get used to the fact that some people don't like ATYCLB.
bathiu
Refugee
djerdap said:
What's realy scary is that "liking" or "disliking" ATYCLB had nothing to with what Axver was saying... poor girl...
bathiu said:
What's scary for me is I don't even remember what Axver and U2Girl was debating about, but I responded anyway.
FullonEdge2
Refugee
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For the sake of practicality, I'm going to agree with U2girl that the band played all of Wild Honey, and, therefore, Wild Honey was played. It wasn't a snippet. It was the whole song. For a song to be considered "full song," it doesn't have to mean every member of the band plays it. I consider the Bono/Edge version of SATS on the Elevation tour an entire rendition of SATS, not a snippet.
neutral
genius of compression, Forum Moderator
I would appreciate it if we could tone it down a bit in here. The name calling and baiting needs to stop.
Just to throw my tuppence into the mix, I'd be really disappointed if the setlists were short throughout this upcoming tour. I'm not expecting any marathons from my favourite ageing rockers, but there's no reason why the band can't belt out a couple hours worth of songs each gig. I was just over on REM's website and looking up some of their recent setlists - averaging out about 25 songs per night. C'mon now A, B, L and E - you know it makes sense!
jedi Larry
The Fly
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- 271
My respect for them would increase if they played more new stuff than a typical greatest hits package.
What other 25+ year band tours off the strength of their latest album of new material?
Very few.
U2 is unique and could start off with new material dominating the show.
ZOO TV started off with not a song from their first three albums.
What other 25+ year band tours off the strength of their latest album of new material?
Very few.
U2 is unique and could start off with new material dominating the show.
ZOO TV started off with not a song from their first three albums.
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ElectricalVoice
Refugee
I must say it again. One of the reasons that I love U2, is that they actually have the guts to go for their new material. They believe in what they are doing right now! They believe in their new music - and I think they HAVE TO, or else there would be no point in making music anymore. We've heard the old stuff - and it's great. Now I want to hear the new stuff, because it's just as good. I won't sit in the past and dream it up again. I'll follow U2 on the new road. The fact that the guys STILL kick ass with new material is just awesome. After almost 30 years. Think about that. It's what make U2 so great. I hope they play every f***ing song from the new album. It's what I want to hear.
theoeiii
Acrobat
Man, reading these posts was both disheartening and entertaining at the same time.
Here's what's disheartening: If you have seen them enough to be worried about what they play - then you're jaded and you've lost the thrill. Just don't go. Plenty of excited fans didn't get tickets. Don't go, secretly like it, then dis it online like a chump because that what you think the cool thing is.
If you truly didn't like the All That You Can't Leave Behind or How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb, that's really a shame. Everyone else did - oh wait! That's why you didn't!
Bands that don't go in a new direction just die. Look at Pearl Jam. No radio hits since their second album. Yet a top grossing tour act and a kick-ass band that never went backwards.
All you naysayers - you should be ashamed. Lame. Oh man, and you guys that were at shows U2 400 years ago - you are WAY cooler than me, and your opinion means more. Don't forget that.
While you're taking up a seat that could be filled by someone who'd be energetic no matter what they play, I'll be somewhere in the balcony singing along to every word and playing air guitar like an 8th grader at the first show I've ever been to.
Cynics go to hell. Bring the noise.
Here's what's disheartening: If you have seen them enough to be worried about what they play - then you're jaded and you've lost the thrill. Just don't go. Plenty of excited fans didn't get tickets. Don't go, secretly like it, then dis it online like a chump because that what you think the cool thing is.
If you truly didn't like the All That You Can't Leave Behind or How to Dismantle an Atomic Bomb, that's really a shame. Everyone else did - oh wait! That's why you didn't!
Bands that don't go in a new direction just die. Look at Pearl Jam. No radio hits since their second album. Yet a top grossing tour act and a kick-ass band that never went backwards.
All you naysayers - you should be ashamed. Lame. Oh man, and you guys that were at shows U2 400 years ago - you are WAY cooler than me, and your opinion means more. Don't forget that.
While you're taking up a seat that could be filled by someone who'd be energetic no matter what they play, I'll be somewhere in the balcony singing along to every word and playing air guitar like an 8th grader at the first show I've ever been to.
Cynics go to hell. Bring the noise.
Roland of Gilead
Gunslinger
To get some simplicity back to the discussion, before it ran away, I said that the Elevation tour featured an average of 6 All That... songs played on a nightly basis. Forget about bonus tracks, full band songs, how many All That... songs got played during the whole tour, etc... . I believe that new Vertigo tour will feature an average of at least 8 Bomb songs played on a nightly basis. This is just a hunch, nothing more. Considering the setlist to be somewhere around 20-24 songs average, this would feel more like a new album tour than the Elevation tour.
Nothing I have stated is intended to be negative. I am merely saying that I am not going to be suprised to see U2 play more of the Bomb album on a nightly basis than what they did last tour. This is a discussion (from my point anyways) about the "flavour" of the new tour. I love salad dressings! - as the Edge would say. Okay?
Nothing I have stated is intended to be negative. I am merely saying that I am not going to be suprised to see U2 play more of the Bomb album on a nightly basis than what they did last tour. This is a discussion (from my point anyways) about the "flavour" of the new tour. I love salad dressings! - as the Edge would say. Okay?
ElectricalVoice
Refugee
theoeiii said:
This post need to be quoted. And it should be quoted in several threads on this forum.
What you say here is very interesting:
OK, I think I'll bow out of this debate now. Or at least soon. I'd like to clarify my definition.
I was using 'full band' because if you remove that, the definition becomes truly hazy. An important part of a song is its drum and bass line. That was not played live in Wild Honey, hence why I didn't include it. But if you want to include it, you have to include Wake Up Dead Man because it was played separately, as its own song, at the end of some Popmart gigs by Bono and Edge. It wasn't the complete lyrics, but the complete lyrics of New Year's Day have never been sung and no-one's debating its inclusion. So if we can include the half-played Wild Honey because Bono sung all of the lyrics, and WUDM because you don't need the whole band, then let's bring in The First Time because a good quantity of the lyrics were used by Bono to link Bad to Bullet. So the band were not playing it. That clearly doesn't matter as we've already let WUDM and Wild Honey count without crucial elements of their music. But if we include The First Time, then we better bring in Heartland because Bono sung some of it during the intro to Streets on 14 October 1989. And it just goes on and on.
I had to draw the line somewhere with my definition. I chose to draw it at full band. And as of yet, no-one has offered a reasonable modification that changes my initial list.
I rest my case.
Though before I go, anyone who is trying to construe my comments on ATYCLB to somehow be a criticism of the album simply is not thinking intelligently. Not once have I ever said anything negative about the album - nor have I said anything positive. I've been neutral in my statement of the facts. Album opinions have utterly nothing to do with setlist realities.
I was using 'full band' because if you remove that, the definition becomes truly hazy. An important part of a song is its drum and bass line. That was not played live in Wild Honey, hence why I didn't include it. But if you want to include it, you have to include Wake Up Dead Man because it was played separately, as its own song, at the end of some Popmart gigs by Bono and Edge. It wasn't the complete lyrics, but the complete lyrics of New Year's Day have never been sung and no-one's debating its inclusion. So if we can include the half-played Wild Honey because Bono sung all of the lyrics, and WUDM because you don't need the whole band, then let's bring in The First Time because a good quantity of the lyrics were used by Bono to link Bad to Bullet. So the band were not playing it. That clearly doesn't matter as we've already let WUDM and Wild Honey count without crucial elements of their music. But if we include The First Time, then we better bring in Heartland because Bono sung some of it during the intro to Streets on 14 October 1989. And it just goes on and on.
I had to draw the line somewhere with my definition. I chose to draw it at full band. And as of yet, no-one has offered a reasonable modification that changes my initial list.
I rest my case.
Though before I go, anyone who is trying to construe my comments on ATYCLB to somehow be a criticism of the album simply is not thinking intelligently. Not once have I ever said anything negative about the album - nor have I said anything positive. I've been neutral in my statement of the facts. Album opinions have utterly nothing to do with setlist realities.
Also, to whoever said that promo tour concerts aren't indicative of what's ultimately played, I'd like to show you the opening series of songs from the two promo shows with decent-sized setlists.
Irving Plaza, 2000-12-05
Beautiful Day
Elevation
Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of
I Remember You
New York
The Astoria, 2001-02-07
Until the End of the World
Beautiful Day
Elevation
Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of
Gone
Now have a look at this ...
Miami, opening night of Elevation, 2001-03-24
Elevation
Beautiful Day
Until the End of the World
New Year's Day
Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of
Three songs that appeared in both opening series' of five at the promo shows appeared in the opening series of five at the first Elevation show. Furthermore, Gone, fifth in one promo opening series, comes SIXTH on the opening night of Elevation, and New York, fifth in the other opening series, comes EIGHTH.
I think my point is clear.
Irving Plaza, 2000-12-05
Beautiful Day
Elevation
Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of
I Remember You
New York
The Astoria, 2001-02-07
Until the End of the World
Beautiful Day
Elevation
Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of
Gone
Now have a look at this ...
Miami, opening night of Elevation, 2001-03-24
Elevation
Beautiful Day
Until the End of the World
New Year's Day
Stuck In A Moment You Can't Get Out Of
Three songs that appeared in both opening series' of five at the promo shows appeared in the opening series of five at the first Elevation show. Furthermore, Gone, fifth in one promo opening series, comes SIXTH on the opening night of Elevation, and New York, fifth in the other opening series, comes EIGHTH.
I think my point is clear.
ElectricalVoice
Refugee
Axver said:
I don't consider you negative, Axver. Not at all
The original post from ramblin rose is interesting, I think. Certainly wonder if there is anything valid information here. I hope there is. Reading that post made me think what the tour will be like. You know ... I'm just about to really learn the Bomb, and learning the lyrics. And i can tell you ... there is some songs I would like to sing along to from this album
I can't promise to not scream in your ear in front of the stage
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popacrobat
Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
omg u2 sux i want my money back i cant believe this is really happening to me you mean they have to actually tour the album they just released!?!?!?!??!? u mean we wont hear as many songs as we have in the past from other tours!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? omg, i never would have guessed adding 7 songs to a setlist would drop 7, omg omg omg. i hate u2.
LuminousTimes
The Fly
StlElevation said:omg u2 sux i want my money back i cant believe this is really happening to me you mean they have to actually tour the album they just released!?!?!?!??!? u mean we wont hear as many songs as we have in the past from other tours!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? omg, i never would have guessed adding 7 songs to a setlist would drop 7, omg omg omg. i hate u2.
I have to agree with you whole-heartedly...I mean...What are they thinking exactly?? If they keep writing all these new albums...there will be less and less time for all the old classic material... Will this madness ever cease??
martha
Blue Crack Supplier
Jim said:
News is different than bullshit. News is verifiable. Bullshit is posting something to get attention as an insider. You know as well as I do that it happens all the time here. Especially with unnammed sources and "some guy" who said something.
Ok, I'll amend my statement. Most people who post "inside information" are full of shit in almost every case. You can count on one hand the people who posted "news" and actually had it right.
If this Zootopian guy is right, I'll cough it up. But I'm standing by my assumption of bullshit till proven otherwise.
mikal
Blue Crack Addict
it seems as if i'm the only credible source around here. 
dream chaser
Acrobat
Blue Room said:
Whatever, I'm sure Principle and Interscope would love your site since you are such an insider.
I'm not saying there are not people that know something about what is going on. But the original post and another on a different thread just smell of BS to me. Dallas doesnt disclose this much info. Why on earth when he is so busy right now would he be following up with a Nashville guitar tech???? Then some of the ridiculous freak outs over it is even worse. The band are not even in production rehearsal yet. THAT is when you are going to get an idea of what is going to be done.
I predicted this before, setlist bitching this time out before they even play a show. Some "fans" never disappoint!!
Wait... I'm confused. I was agreeing with you.
Blue Room
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
dream chaser said:
Wait... I'm confused. I was agreeing with you.
My bad!!
I sort of thought so, but I wasnt sure. Sorry about that. Achtung Ya'll
War Child
theoeiii said:
You know...sometimes...SOMETIMES fans can be critical of their favorite band. I know it's such a far-out concept but bare with me!
We don't always have to love everything they do. We are allowed to be critical.
I am allowed to say that HTDAAB and ATYCLB weren't that great because, and I know this a crazy idea, I just didn't like them that much! Not because "other people liked them." I'm no iconoclast. In fact I'd say I lend myself to the trend-whore side of things.
But they just weren't rockin' albums. They weren't horrible...but I'm just a bigger fan of the AB/Zooropa/POP era and the ATCYLB/HTDAAB tunes didn't appeal to my pallette as much.
What bothers me is that several people quote your post and say "this is superb and needs to be quoted more." Because, in my opinion, it's this type of attitude that actually has more of a negative effect than someone being critical of the band. Bands prosper and get better because sometimes their fans have negative reactions. It's normal and all part of the way things work. It lets them know what we prefer and what they can do to help us out. Granted it's not alllll about the fans. The band has to do what they feel is right for them, I understand that.
But any fan that simply says "anyone with a negative remark or criticism is not a fan and can go to hell" ...well that's just a stupid uneducated remark.
dream chaser
Acrobat
Achtung Ya'll said:
I totally agree with what you're saying.
***
The issue here, imho, should not so much be getting riled up about rumors of what the band is, will, or have ever done during a tour or attacking fellow fans because they have an opinion as an individual rather than being a blind follower, so much as it should be discussing, perhaps seeking the validity of the original quote.
I think it's perfectly reasonable and healthy to question this source. Who is this person? Do they have a reputation within the fan community be it online or otherwise? If so, what is that reputation? Have they met the band and/or crew before? Do they have anything to gain by either passing on this information or by making up a lie? What's the motive? And last, but not least, was this person asked to pass on this information? Or is this person violating the privacy of an individual that he/she spoke with in confidence?
These are just a few thoughts to throw out there... Take 'em or leave, lol.
That or let it go & disappear into the nether of the archives.
Cheers,
-Mel
Axver: full band playing was only your criteria. I think that "all lyrics sung" criteria is enough.
Wild honey gets in, Wake up dead man and First time and Heartland don't.
(let's not get into how many songs have been played only by Bono and Edge on the last three tours)
New Year's day was never snippeted, obviously. Besides it has your criteria of bass and drums included. An exception to the rule. The only regular song they play AFAIK that is missing a verse.
As for promo tours being indicative, I wasn't referring to the song order but to the fact that while 4 songs made in onto ATYCLB promo tour, 10 new songs were feautered on Elevation (8 album + Ground beneath her feet + Sweetest thing who had not appeared on previous tours).
Another thing about "agenda": your UF fanaticism really puts you in no position to say others defend albums too much.
I will stop posting in this thread too.
Wild honey gets in, Wake up dead man and First time and Heartland don't.
(let's not get into how many songs have been played only by Bono and Edge on the last three tours)
New Year's day was never snippeted, obviously. Besides it has your criteria of bass and drums included. An exception to the rule. The only regular song they play AFAIK that is missing a verse.
As for promo tours being indicative, I wasn't referring to the song order but to the fact that while 4 songs made in onto ATYCLB promo tour, 10 new songs were feautered on Elevation (8 album + Ground beneath her feet + Sweetest thing who had not appeared on previous tours).
Another thing about "agenda": your UF fanaticism really puts you in no position to say others defend albums too much.
I will stop posting in this thread too.
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Aardvark747
Blue Crack Addict
U2girl said:
I wont! I'm here for the duration.
But I have nothing interesting to say....
theoeiii
Acrobat
Achtung Ya'll said:
I agree! I didn't say that at all. And I never said you weren't a fan. I also didn't use the word criticism; I used cynic. If you don't know the difference, then it's you, my friend, who is uneducated.
The reason it's been quoted as being a good thread, I think, is that most people hate the norm. I hate the norm. We all want to be non-conformists, but I suspect most of us are not. I'm not. When it comes to music, everyone wants to prove they heard of someone first, or they've seen the most shows, or that the "old stuff was better." How often do you hear that? Too often.
So when a band gets insanely popular based on an album that came out 10 or 15 years after their earliest one, a cynic turns on that album with a biased ear. It's the old George Carlin philosophy: Imagine how dumb the average person is, then imagine that half of them are even dumber than that. While hilarious, it doesn't translate to music all the time. Sometimes it does, I'll give you that.
We're on the eve of a tour, and you're on a message board saying you don't like the new album. Well, this is the tour that supports that new album.
Read this next part VERY carefully:
It will be a fantastic tour. The ideas will be fresh (like always), the band will rock (like always), it'll be cutting edge (like always) and the songs will mean more to you live than they do now on record. Who listens to Elevation now without thinking of the lights dropping and the place going nuts? I get amped just thinking about it. If that doesn't rattle your cage, then maybe live music isn't for you!
Achtung Ya'll said:
::
This gets my vote for the best post I've read on the forum, let alone this thread, for a while.Oh yeah...and I
the last 2 albums. I like them even better than Pop and Zooropa. I have to draw the line at AB though
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