the scientist is right, non-tapers can be more taper oriented, and think about the needs and wants of the tapers (which of course isn't the same for all tapers). it's not all about quick, instantaneous, easy access to shows. third-party shn'ing, in the long run, is going to cut access to shows, as more and more tapres who don't want tehir shows hubbed or torrented wont' release them at all.
blue room riases a good point, there may be some shows that "appear" not to be recorded because they won't circulate at all in the public realm.
huskies suggests a solid idea: there's no better time than the present for the pro-torrenters to orgainzize their own taping groups, and torrent THOSE tapes rather than third party shn'ing someone else's tape who doesn't want it torrented.
chrisedge, i disagree with your implciation that those who dont want their shows torrented and spread via sharing the groove type networks arne't "generous." i know you've taped some shows, and hubbed them for anyone to download, and that's your perogative, and i don't think anyone has a problem when a taper torrents his own master tape. but ther'es nothing honorable about third party shn'ing and torrenting someone else's master tape without their permission. by taping shows in the first place, the taper by definition is generous. how he distributes, or doesn't distribute, his tape is up to him. i don't understand why this is all so hard to fathom.
again, the best solution, for those who expect every show torrented on sharing the groove and the elevaSHN torrenter, is to organize a group of tapers who agree to host up their own masters. i fear, though, the problem is, at the end of the day, most people don't want to put forth the effort or claim they can't afford to (yet they can afford a cmputer and cable connection). those living in parts of the world where u2 doesn't tour can, as the scientist states, be taper oriented and find other ways to help out.